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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 13, 2023 9:35:06 GMT -5
As a result of the injury to Aaron Rodgers…… nflpa.com/posts/only-natural-grass-can-level-the-nfls-playing-fieldAs a rookie learning the ins and outs of being a professional football player, I remember the collective groan that my older teammates made whenever it was announced that we’d be practicing indoors on artificial turf instead of the usual outdoor grass field. I played almost exclusively on synthetic turf in college. Once I started experiencing both surfaces interchangeably, I began to understand exactly why my teammates disliked the practices on turf. Whenever I practiced on an artificial field surface, my joints felt noticeably stiffer the next day. The unforgiving nature of artificial turf compounds the grind on the body we already bear from playing a contact sport. First, a bit of physics: Professional football players put extremely high levels of force and rotation onto the playing surface. Grass will eventually give, which often releases the cleat prior to reaching an injurious load. On synthetic surfaces, there is less give, meaning our feet, ankles and knees absorb the force, which makes injury more likely to follow. The data supports the anecdotes you’ll hear from me and other players: artificial turf is significantly harder on the body than grass. Based on NFL injury data collected from 2012 to 2018, not only was the contact injury rate for lower extremities higher during practices and games held on artificial turf, NFL players consistently experienced a much higher rate of non-contact lower extremity injuries on turf compared to natural surfaces. Specifically, players have a 28% higher rate of non-contact lower extremity injuries when playing on artificial turf. Of those non-contact injuries, players have a 32% higher rate of non-contact knee injuries on turf and a staggering 69% higher rate of non-contact foot/ankle injuries on turf compared to grass. Earlier this year, the NFL and NFLPA tasked artificial turf manufacturers with developing a surface like natural grass that meets the specifications developed by our respective engineering experts. We also challenged cleat manufacturers to design innovative footwear that is safer and tailored to both players’ needs and to specific surfaces. There is no guarantee that artificial turf manufacturers will be able to create a product that provides as safe of a surface as natural grass, so we should not sit around hoping that happens. Until a product is developed that satisfies engineering specifications, we must take steps to protect players from unsafe field surfaces. In short, NFL clubs should proactively change all field surfaces to natural grass. This data is clear, so everyone involved with our sport should be similarly motivated to make this switch. For players, we can be stronger advocates for ourselves by continuing to demand safer standards. For coaches and general managers, building a successful team is much easier with a healthy roster. For NFL owners, any decision shown to protect their most important investments - the players - should be a no-brainer. Climate and weather are not barriers to natural grass practice or game fields. Cold-climate teams like the Packers, Steelers and Browns successfully maintain natural grass fields. Indoor stadiums shouldn’t be a barrier for grass fields, either. The Cardinals and Raiders have figured out how to provide a natural grass playing surface indoors. Agronomically, natural grass field surfaces are possible everywhere. You might be thinking, “But I thought all fields are inspected?” It’s true that NFL-NFLPA inspectors evaluate practice and game fields through the Clegg test, which measures the hardness of the surface. The Clegg test, however, is extremely limited in its ability to tell us about the performance or safety of a field and is not nearly as comprehensive for what the modern game requires. Our union has raised this concern repeatedly over the past few years, and we believe it is now time for a complete overhaul. Our occupation is dangerous enough, and the increased rate of lower extremity injuries linked to the field surface we are forced to play on is unacceptable. The NFLPA is advocating for teams to convert artificial practice and game fields to natural grass fields. In the meantime, we’re fighting on behalf of our players to develop better safety standards and testing methods for artificial turf. There is room for innovation by artificial turf manufacturers, but until the risk of injury on turf mirrors the risk on grass, playing on turf is not in the best interest of our players. And finally, a quick note about our fight against the ongoing pandemic. As we unfortunately saw in recent days, the virus is still very much present in our communities. We know that there is fatigue by many in our league – and also across our country – about following protocols implemented to stop the transmission of the virus. If we needed a reminder about the vigilance required by everyone to do their part, we certainly got it. The playbook to playing a full season is very clear, and we cannot allow complacency to derail the progress we have made to date.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 13, 2023 9:35:49 GMT -5
NFLPA’s new executive director, Lloyd Howell, said all NFL stadiums need to have natural grass. /photo/1
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 13, 2023 9:38:12 GMT -5
Who was the player who said something along the lines of "if a cow can't eat it, I don't want to play on it.?"
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 13, 2023 9:41:04 GMT -5
It was Dick Allen
Baseball Quotes @baseballquotes1 If a horse can't eat it, I don't want to play on it. -Dick Allen, on artificial turf
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 13, 2023 9:48:42 GMT -5
Fitton Field should never be converted to artificial turf…maybe, just maybe, Holy Cross has made the correct decision. Wonder if we will see colleges that have multiple venues, such as HC now consider converting their football fields to grass.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 13, 2023 9:50:38 GMT -5
The injuries are bad enough, but the long term health effects are now only being discovered. The Philadelphia Inquirer did an extensive article on this last year which was disturbing.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 13, 2023 9:52:53 GMT -5
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 13, 2023 10:55:13 GMT -5
I forget which NFL game it was this weekend, it might have been the Patriots vs. Eagles, but after a sack, the QB got up and had rubber pellets completely covering his face. After coaching on turf I have to bang out my sneakers to get all of them out before heading home. Can't imagine recycled tires are great to inhale.
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 219
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Post by hc69 on Sept 13, 2023 13:10:59 GMT -5
I forget which NFL game it was this weekend, it might have been the Patriots vs. Eagles, but after a sack, the QB got up and had rubber pellets completely covering his face. After coaching on turf I have to bang out my sneakers to get all of them out before heading home. Can't imagine recycled tires are great to inhale. It happened in the Giants game as well. They put new turf on the field this year because Met Life stadium was where ACLs went to die. New turf still has lots of pellets. Rogers' injury happened at Met Life as well but it wasn't caused by the turf. The same thing would have happened on a good grass field. His foot didn't get caught in the turf. He planted it and the achilles blew. There are several videos of the injury that show his calf bulging when it blows. Same thing happens when you tear a bicep tendon. The tendon rolls up your arm. Happened to a colleague of mine when we were working out at lunch. He decided to jump up to the pull up bar rather than using the step up bars -- not the best of ideas -- and the tendon went.
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Post by dadominate on Sept 13, 2023 13:19:15 GMT -5
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 13, 2023 15:01:51 GMT -5
I forget which NFL game it was this weekend, it might have been the Patriots vs. Eagles, but after a sack, the QB got up and had rubber pellets completely covering his face. After coaching on turf I have to bang out my sneakers to get all of them out before heading home. Can't imagine recycled tires are great to inhale. It happened in the Giants game as well. They put new turf on the field this year because Met Life stadium was where ACLs went to die. New turf still has lots of pellets. Rogers' injury happened at Met Life as well but it wasn't caused by the turf. The same thing would have happened on a good grass field. His foot didn't get caught in the turf. He planted it and the achilles blew. There are several videos of the injury that show his calf bulging when it blows. Same thing happens when you tear a bicep tendon. The tendon rolls up your arm. Happened to a colleague of mine when we were working out at lunch. He decided to jump up to the pull up bar rather than using the step up bars -- not the best of ideas -- and the tendon went. But noone wants to talk about JK Dobbins tearing his achilles on grass this past week... www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/ravens/2023/09/10/baltimore-ravens-rb-j-k-dobbins-torn-achilles-injury/70817903007/
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 13, 2023 15:03:26 GMT -5
As a result of the injury to Aaron Rodgers…… nflpa.com/posts/only-natural-grass-can-level-the-nfls-playing-fieldAs a rookie learning the ins and outs of being a professional football player, I remember the collective groan that my older teammates made whenever it was announced that we’d be practicing indoors on artificial turf instead of the usual outdoor grass field. I played almost exclusively on synthetic turf in college. Once I started experiencing both surfaces interchangeably, I began to understand exactly why my teammates disliked the practices on turf. Whenever I practiced on an artificial field surface, my joints felt noticeably stiffer the next day. The unforgiving nature of artificial turf compounds the grind on the body we already bear from playing a contact sport. First, a bit of physics: Professional football players put extremely high levels of force and rotation onto the playing surface. Grass will eventually give, which often releases the cleat prior to reaching an injurious load. On synthetic surfaces, there is less give, meaning our feet, ankles and knees absorb the force, which makes injury more likely to follow. The data supports the anecdotes you’ll hear from me and other players: artificial turf is significantly harder on the body than grass. Based on NFL injury data collected from 2012 to 2018, not only was the contact injury rate for lower extremities higher during practices and games held on artificial turf, NFL players consistently experienced a much higher rate of non-contact lower extremity injuries on turf compared to natural surfaces. Specifically, players have a 28% higher rate of non-contact lower extremity injuries when playing on artificial turf. Of those non-contact injuries, players have a 32% higher rate of non-contact knee injuries on turf and a staggering 69% higher rate of non-contact foot/ankle injuries on turf compared to grass. Earlier this year, the NFL and NFLPA tasked artificial turf manufacturers with developing a surface like natural grass that meets the specifications developed by our respective engineering experts. We also challenged cleat manufacturers to design innovative footwear that is safer and tailored to both players’ needs and to specific surfaces. There is no guarantee that artificial turf manufacturers will be able to create a product that provides as safe of a surface as natural grass, so we should not sit around hoping that happens. Until a product is developed that satisfies engineering specifications, we must take steps to protect players from unsafe field surfaces. In short, NFL clubs should proactively change all field surfaces to natural grass. This data is clear, so everyone involved with our sport should be similarly motivated to make this switch. For players, we can be stronger advocates for ourselves by continuing to demand safer standards. For coaches and general managers, building a successful team is much easier with a healthy roster. For NFL owners, any decision shown to protect their most important investments - the players - should be a no-brainer. Climate and weather are not barriers to natural grass practice or game fields. Cold-climate teams like the Packers, Steelers and Browns successfully maintain natural grass fields. Indoor stadiums shouldn’t be a barrier for grass fields, either. The Cardinals and Raiders have figured out how to provide a natural grass playing surface indoors. Agronomically, natural grass field surfaces are possible everywhere. You might be thinking, “But I thought all fields are inspected?” It’s true that NFL-NFLPA inspectors evaluate practice and game fields through the Clegg test, which measures the hardness of the surface. The Clegg test, however, is extremely limited in its ability to tell us about the performance or safety of a field and is not nearly as comprehensive for what the modern game requires. Our union has raised this concern repeatedly over the past few years, and we believe it is now time for a complete overhaul. Our occupation is dangerous enough, and the increased rate of lower extremity injuries linked to the field surface we are forced to play on is unacceptable. The NFLPA is advocating for teams to convert artificial practice and game fields to natural grass fields. In the meantime, we’re fighting on behalf of our players to develop better safety standards and testing methods for artificial turf. There is room for innovation by artificial turf manufacturers, but until the risk of injury on turf mirrors the risk on grass, playing on turf is not in the best interest of our players. And finally, a quick note about our fight against the ongoing pandemic. As we unfortunately saw in recent days, the virus is still very much present in our communities. We know that there is fatigue by many in our league – and also across our country – about following protocols implemented to stop the transmission of the virus. If we needed a reminder about the vigilance required by everyone to do their part, we certainly got it. The playbook to playing a full season is very clear, and we cannot allow complacency to derail the progress we have made to date. A Browns player tore his ACL this week on grass www.nfl.com/news/browns-rt-jack-conklin-out-for-2023-season-with-torn-acl
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 13, 2023 18:15:39 GMT -5
Wes Welker of the Patriots tore his ACL on grass in Houston back in 2010 (they switched to turf about 8 years ago).
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Post by timholycross on Sept 14, 2023 11:49:18 GMT -5
Wes Welker of the Patriots tore his ACL on grass in Houston back in 2010 (they switched to turf about 8 years ago). The Houston field at the time was interlocking "trays" of sod and there were a number of injuries when the player somehow got caught in the seams. www.nfl.com/news/texans-ditching-grass-field-for-artificial-surface-at-nrg-0ap3000000533396 It wasn't grass per se. The successful grass surfaces indoors are ones where they have created a grass field on a rolling platform; when it's in between games/events, they roll the field outside and care for it there. Vegas and, first, Phoenix, have that approach. A field like Sky Dome (former name) in Toronto should also easily be able to be grass as it's got a retractable roof and it's the lack of sunlight that kills the grass. 2 NFL fields have a hybrid product, Desso Grassmaster: Green Bay and Philly; 14 have grass. That leaves 14 to make changes as LA & NY teams play on the same field. What it would take to convert the other indoor stadia to grass that would thrive, you got me. Not like you can just put in a 400 X 200 rolling platform at the drop of a hat. But pro teams have money to burn and providing underground heating systems and the like to keep a field playable all year round is certainly doable. As far as what's out there that the general population (youth and high school athletics, and what I officiate on 75% of the time) use, I think the argument weighs heavily in the other direction and the fields aren't going anywhere.
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 14, 2023 12:05:32 GMT -5
I know the field in Phoenix had issues at the Super Bowl this year. It has been hailed as an engineering marvel with the removable tray, but there have been issues with it over the years. Now this explanation says it is preventable, but there are certainly issues with rolling a field in and out. I like allowing each team and facility to control what they do with their playing surface. Anyone watching a GB or Chicago game in December will notice white lines painted on dormant grass and the occasional mud bowl. I come out with mixed feelings on both types of turf. I could go either way. www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/super-bowl/2023/02/28/super-bowl-57-slippery-field-conditions-explained/11368392002/
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 14, 2023 14:44:09 GMT -5
If Gillette converted to grass sooner than most NFL teams, what would be a suitable rental fee for visiting teams to stage a practice on Fitton Field on the Friday before their game in Foxborough or Saturday, too if it wasn't one of the four Saturdays that HC uses the field?
The Fitton gridiron could be a hot item if this transition drags out for a while.
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 14, 2023 14:50:44 GMT -5
If Gillette converted to grass sooner than most NFL teams, what would be a suitable rental fee for visiting teams to stage a practice on Fitton Field on the Friday before their game in Foxborough or Saturday, too if it wasn't one of the four Saturdays that HC uses the field? The Fitton gridiron could be a hot item if this transition drags out for a while. Fitton is used 4-5 times a year (I think it should be 6 but it is what it is) but everything would be in the Fall, which could be a bit for our turf to heal in between HC games. Perhaps a grass practice field would be practical for that. That being said, I am sure Gillette will remain turf until the NE Revolution soccer team moves out. I think the grass at Gillette was too chewed up because of the soccer games.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 14, 2023 17:38:56 GMT -5
If Gillette converted to grass sooner than most NFL teams, what would be a suitable rental fee for visiting teams to stage a practice on Fitton Field on the Friday before their game in Foxborough or Saturday, too if it wasn't one of the four Saturdays that HC uses the field? The Fitton gridiron could be a hot item if this transition drags out for a while. Fitton is used 4-5 times a year (I think it should be 6 but it is what it is) but everything would be in the Fall, which could be a bit for our turf to heal in between HC games. Perhaps a grass practice field would be practical for that. That being said, I am sure Gillette will remain turf until the NE Revolution soccer team moves out. I think the grass at Gillette was too chewed up because of the soccer games. Yes and no. What I read was they put in sod because the Revs season starts in March and that's when the stadium was ready for use. It never took correctly. Led to continual re-sodding efforts during both football and soccer seasons. Got so bad that in the middle of the 18-1 season, they went to artificial turf. The claim was they should have moved the Revs to some other venue (plenty of places that could have handled the kinds of crowds they were getting) and seeded it properly; it would have been ready by the fall. Wonder what their plan is for the World Cup. 100% artificial not allowed for sure. Hybrid might be, they used it in some of the women's matches.
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 14, 2023 17:42:21 GMT -5
Fitton is used 4-5 times a year (I think it should be 6 but it is what it is) but everything would be in the Fall, which could be a bit for our turf to heal in between HC games. Perhaps a grass practice field would be practical for that. That being said, I am sure Gillette will remain turf until the NE Revolution soccer team moves out. I think the grass at Gillette was too chewed up because of the soccer games. Yes and no. What I read was they put in sod because the Revs season starts in March and that's when the stadium was ready for use. It never took correctly. Led to continual re-sodding efforts during both football and soccer seasons. Got so bad that in the middle of the 18-1 season, they went to artificial turf. The claim was they should have moved the Revs to some other venue (plenty of places that could have handled the kinds of crowds they were getting) and seeded it properly; it would have been ready by the fall. Wonder what their plan is for the World Cup. 100% artificial not allowed for sure. Hybrid might be, they used it in some of the women's matches. Living near Gillette I am planning on being away for those matches held at Gillette. I can only imagine the traffic and crazy futbol fans. I am open to grass at Gillette (my home NFL stadium if you will), but not until the Revs find another place to call home. I would think they would want something less cavernous anyway.
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Post by hc87 on Sept 14, 2023 18:06:25 GMT -5
When I just think about getting tackled on the astro-turf of the 70s at places like the Vet in Philly, I instantly get a headache and a rash.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 15, 2023 9:57:19 GMT -5
When I just think about getting tackled on the astro-turf of the 70s at places like the Vet in Philly, I instantly get a headache and a rash. Walked on Nickerson Field when HC played BU in '91. It was like being on a patio with a very old all weather rug covering it. I believe it wasn't replaced for another 10 years. High schools still played Super Bowls there even after BU dropped football, a very dangerous disgrace. They don't any more because the new field was never lined for football.
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 15, 2023 10:52:10 GMT -5
When I just think about getting tackled on the astro-turf of the 70s at places like the Vet in Philly, I instantly get a headache and a rash. Walked on Nickerson Field when HC played BU in '91. It was like being on a patio with a very old all weather rug covering it. I believe it wasn't replaced for another 10 years. High schools still played Super Bowls there even after BU dropped football, a very dangerous disgrace. They don't any more because the new field was never lined for football. As a baseball catcher, I never minded playing on Astroturf since I was always on dirt! When I was in high school we had one school that had the rock hard astroturf a la Nickerson for both baseball and football. Boy those line drives would just take off and shoot into the gap. One time the opposing punter pulled off a near impossible feat. Kicking from his own endzone, he hit a line drive punt that was nearly a touchback it rolled so bloody far on the astroturf.
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