|
Post by hc6774 on Jan 3, 2024 22:06:37 GMT -5
which is like 1843 collective? exchange, collaborative or club?
dash.inflcr.com/exchange/fordham-university
guhoyas.com/news/2023/5/23/general-hoyas-rising-an-nil-collaborative-for-georgetown-student-athletes-launches-today.aspx
nilclub.com/lafayette/football
|
|
|
Post by football44 on Jan 4, 2024 5:48:39 GMT -5
I’m an alum and a tuition-paying parent of a current HC student who does not have an athletic scholarship (or any, for that matter). While the collective/LLC is certainly free to do whatever it wants within legal boundaries, I believe such payments will exacerbate the athlete/non-athlete divide on the Hill, which seems to be much greater than when I attended in the 80s. As Phreek notes, athletes’ tuitions are already subsidized by tuition payments from non-athletes (i.e., their parents). They are also provided career counseling and networking opportunities non-athletes are not, and have dedicated training facilities that are not accessible to all students, among other school-funded perquisites. Now they will receive direct cash payments from a group of alumni? At the risk of sounding like Fr. Brooks, whose name is verboten on this board, all of this moves Holy Cross away from its core educational mission. Is there an athlete/non-athlete divide on The Hill ?? Really ?? Any more so than Alabama, USC or Notre Dame ??......its not clear that athletes have enhanced access to career counseling/network opportunities, and even if they do, there is no financial aspect to it.......the so-called "access " is pro bono from the standpoint of alumni athletes wanting to give back.....How is this moving away from the " core educational mission " I have a hard time getting my hands around the concept that Gonzaga, Marquette, St. Mary's ( CA ), Dayton, Duke, Virginia, Villanova, or Notre Dame ( among others ) having their " educational mission " irrevocably damaged by supporting varsity basketball/football programs....If anything, ethical support of those programs enhances the mission....it does not detract from it Even better said 78.
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Jan 4, 2024 6:31:11 GMT -5
Certainly, the athletes on those big time teams are not academically representative of the student body. There are other issues w/athletics at those schools which strike at the core of the academic mission of the college. At any rate HC will never go big time. The college will continue to be an academics first institution with restrictions on athletics. There was not a divide between student athletes & students in the past. Is there one now? Hope not. HC does not need nor should want a professionalized football/basketball program. Quite simply HC is not a jock school.
|
|
|
Post by dharry13 on Jan 4, 2024 8:06:54 GMT -5
I’m an alum and a tuition-paying parent of a current HC student who does not have an athletic scholarship (or any, for that matter). While the collective/LLC is certainly free to do whatever it wants within legal boundaries, I believe such payments will exacerbate the athlete/non-athlete divide on the Hill, which seems to be much greater than when I attended in the 80s. As Phreek notes, athletes’ tuitions are already subsidized by tuition payments from non-athletes (i.e., their parents). They are also provided career counseling and networking opportunities non-athletes are not, and have dedicated training facilities that are not accessible to all students, among other school-funded perquisites. Now they will receive direct cash payments from a group of alumni? At the risk of sounding like Fr. Brooks, whose name is verboten on this board, all of this moves Holy Cross away from its core educational mission. Is there an athlete/non-athlete divide on The Hill ?? Really ?? Any more so than Alabama, USC or Notre Dame ??......its not clear that athletes have enhanced access to career counseling/network opportunities, and even if they do, there is no financial aspect to it.......the so-called "access " is pro bono from the standpoint of alumni athletes wanting to give back.....How is this moving away from the " core educational mission " I have a hard time getting my hands around the concept that Gonzaga, Marquette, St. Mary's ( CA ), Dayton, Duke, Virginia, Villanova, or Notre Dame ( among others ) having their " educational mission " irrevocably damaged by supporting varsity basketball/football programs....If anything, ethical support of those programs enhances the mission....it does not detract from it Correct. It doesn't detract from it. Either way the 1843 is moving forward. Football alum can either donate to it or not.
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Jan 4, 2024 8:26:56 GMT -5
I like to believe the college and the posters for the most part, view HC athletics in the proper perspective. Would anticipate the 1843 Collective will hold itself to the highest standards of integrity. After all, although a separate entity, it still pertains to Holy Cross.
|
|
|
Post by gks on Jan 4, 2024 8:28:22 GMT -5
Certainly, the athletes on those big time teams are not academically representative of the student body. There are other issues w/athletics at those schools which strike at the core of the academic mission of the college. At any rate HC will never go big time. The college will continue to be an academics first institution with restrictions on athletics. There was not a divide between student athletes & students in the past. Is there one now? Hope not. HC does not need nor should want a professionalized football/basketball program. Quite simply HC is not a jock school. Of course there is and always has been a divide between student athletes and regular students. Regular students have it much easier.
|
|
|
Post by newfieguy74 on Jan 4, 2024 8:35:36 GMT -5
I’m an alum and a tuition-paying parent of a current HC student who does not have an athletic scholarship (or any, for that matter). While the collective/LLC is certainly free to do whatever it wants within legal boundaries, I believe such payments will exacerbate the athlete/non-athlete divide on the Hill, which seems to be much greater than when I attended in the 80s. As Phreek notes, athletes’ tuitions are already subsidized by tuition payments from non-athletes (i.e., their parents). They are also provided career counseling and networking opportunities non-athletes are not, and have dedicated training facilities that are not accessible to all students, among other school-funded perquisites. Now they will receive direct cash payments from a group of alumni? At the risk of sounding like Fr. Brooks, whose name is verboten on this board, all of this moves Holy Cross away from its core educational mission. I hear what you're saying, and I agree that HC should be first and foremost an academic institution, but I think that athletics adds a lot to our school, and want it to continue as long as we maintain the profile of the student-athlete. Jacob Dobbs is a perfect example. It's not like HC has an uncommon emphasis on sports. Athletics are important at the Ivy league schools, Stanford, Williams, Vanderbilt, Rice and countless other elite academic schools. I felt zero student/athlete divide when I was a student (granted, a million years ago), and I hope there is not one now.
|
|
|
Post by football44 on Jan 4, 2024 8:37:11 GMT -5
I like to believe the college and the posters for the most part, view HC athletics in the proper perspective. Would anticipate the 1843 Collective will hold itself to the highest standards of integrity. After all, although a separate entity, it still pertains to Holy Cross. Not to worry 67. 1843 will always be professionally managed.
|
|
|
Post by football44 on Jan 4, 2024 8:56:15 GMT -5
I’m an alum and a tuition-paying parent of a current HC student who does not have an athletic scholarship (or any, for that matter). While the collective/LLC is certainly free to do whatever it wants within legal boundaries, I believe such payments will exacerbate the athlete/non-athlete divide on the Hill, which seems to be much greater than when I attended in the 80s. As Phreek notes, athletes’ tuitions are already subsidized by tuition payments from non-athletes (i.e., their parents). They are also provided career counseling and networking opportunities non-athletes are not, and have dedicated training facilities that are not accessible to all students, among other school-funded perquisites. Now they will receive direct cash payments from a group of alumni? At the risk of sounding like Fr. Brooks, whose name is verboten on this board, all of this moves Holy Cross away from its core educational mission. I hear what you're saying, and I agree that HC should be first and foremost an academic institution, but I think that athletics adds a lot to our school, and want it to continue as long as we maintain the profile of the student-athlete. Jacob Dobbs is a perfect example. It's not like HC has an uncommon emphasis on sports. Athletics are important at the Ivy league schools, Stanford, Williams, Vanderbilt, Rice and countless other elite academic schools. I felt zero student/athlete divide when I was a student (granted, a million years ago), and I hope there is not one now. I know for a fact that the success of the football program and especially the national exposure that the college got on the ESPN coverage has helped the admissions department. More students are applying now that they've been exposed to who "we" are as a college. This is why a successful program is essential to the future of HC. Just ask your friends at Boston College how the "Flutie Factor" helped in putting Boston College on the map nationally.
|
|
|
Post by hc1996 on Jan 4, 2024 9:02:00 GMT -5
I’m an alum and a tuition-paying parent of a current HC student who does not have an athletic scholarship (or any, for that matter). While the collective/LLC is certainly free to do whatever it wants within legal boundaries, I believe such payments will exacerbate the athlete/non-athlete divide on the Hill, which seems to be much greater than when I attended in the 80s. As Phreek notes, athletes’ tuitions are already subsidized by tuition payments from non-athletes (i.e., their parents). They are also provided career counseling and networking opportunities non-athletes are not, and have dedicated training facilities that are not accessible to all students, among other school-funded perquisites. Now they will receive direct cash payments from a group of alumni? At the risk of sounding like Fr. Brooks, whose name is verboten on this board, all of this moves Holy Cross away from its core educational mission. I hear what you're saying, and I agree that HC should be first and foremost an academic institution, but I think that athletics adds a lot to our school, and want it to continue as long as we maintain the profile of the student-athlete. Jacob Dobbs is a perfect example. It's not like HC has an uncommon emphasis on sports. Athletics are important at the Ivy league schools, Stanford, Williams, Vanderbilt, Rice and countless other elite academic schools. I felt zero student/athlete divide when I was a student (granted, a million years ago), and I hope there is not one now. I hear the opposite with regards to the athlete/non-athlete divide. In fact, our neighbor's son is a scholarship athlete whose cohort of friends are mostly non-athletes. The feedback we hear is that everyone is fairly integrated on the hill and if there is a divide it is certainly not noticeable.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Jan 4, 2024 9:21:21 GMT -5
Am I reading this out of context or can only football alums donate to your collective? Asking for a friend as I've heard that many of the alums with the deepest pockets didn't play football at Holy Cross.
|
|
|
Post by dharry13 on Jan 4, 2024 10:18:56 GMT -5
No - others can donate as well. Sorry for the confusion.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Jan 4, 2024 10:31:44 GMT -5
I guess there is not as much of an athlete/non-athlete divide as some suggest.
|
|
|
Post by alum on Jan 4, 2024 11:03:59 GMT -5
Some kids didn't like athletes in high school, don't like them in college and will never like them. This occurs in every school, every workplace, and every community. My bigger concern is that there are kids that are sports fans but would rather sit in their room and watch the NBA or the Big East than walk up to the Hart Center for a game.
|
|
|
Post by matunuck on Jan 4, 2024 11:58:14 GMT -5
Our athletic program is far down my list of concerns about things that could erode our "core educational mission."
|
|
hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 219
|
Post by hc69 on Jan 4, 2024 13:27:21 GMT -5
I hear what you're saying, and I agree that HC should be first and foremost an academic institution, but I think that athletics adds a lot to our school, and want it to continue as long as we maintain the profile of the student-athlete. Jacob Dobbs is a perfect example. It's not like HC has an uncommon emphasis on sports. Athletics are important at the Ivy league schools, Stanford, Williams, Vanderbilt, Rice and countless other elite academic schools. I felt zero student/athlete divide when I was a student (granted, a million years ago), and I hope there is not one now. I know for a fact that the success of the football program and especially the national exposure that the college got on the ESPN coverage has helped the admissions department. More students are applying now that they've been exposed to who "we" are as a college. This is why a successful program is essential to the future of HC. Just ask your friends at Boston College how the "Flutie Factor" helped in putting Boston College on the map nationally. The problem is that's not how prospective applicants find out about colleges in today's world. Our admissions target is the high school student with 1500 SATs, lots of activities and community service. That student isn't sitting home on a Saturday afternoon watching a game between two FCS schools he or she has never heard of. The demographic that watches college football the least is high school students. How many high school students attend our games? And we give tickets away. This is particularly true of highly qualified girls. They tend to be interested in football only if a brother or boyfriend or best guy bud plays. Otherwise they're busy doing other things. Today's high school students get their information about colleges where they get most of their information, and that is online, not from watching college football games.
Yes, we had a great football year in 2022 and got valuable media exposure. And it's also true that applications for admissions were up in fall of 2022 compared to 2021. But to say that the increase in applications in 2022 was a result of our football success in 2022 is to misunderstand how the applications process works. The students we're after spend their junior year in high school exploring options. By early summer they have narrowed their list down and they make visits in summer and early fall. Then they decide where they're going to apply. So almost all the applications we got in 2022 were from high school seniors who had already had us on their radar since at least spring. They didn't first hear about us by happening to watch the SDSU game.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 4, 2024 13:47:58 GMT -5
I wish there were a way (maybe student survey?) of gauging what effect the Prior PAC has had on prospective student interest, applications, and yield…….
|
|
|
Post by hc1996 on Jan 4, 2024 14:55:28 GMT -5
I know for a fact that the success of the football program and especially the national exposure that the college got on the ESPN coverage has helped the admissions department. More students are applying now that they've been exposed to who "we" are as a college. This is why a successful program is essential to the future of HC. Just ask your friends at Boston College how the "Flutie Factor" helped in putting Boston College on the map nationally. The problem is that's not how prospective applicants find out about colleges in today's world. Our admissions target is the high school student with 1500 SATs, lots of activities and community service. That student isn't sitting home on a Saturday afternoon watching a game between two FCS schools he or she has never heard of. The demographic that watches college football the least is high school students. How many high school students attend our games? And we give tickets away. This is particularly true of highly qualified girls. They tend to be interested in football only if a brother or boyfriend or best guy bud plays. Otherwise they're busy doing other things. Today's high school students get their information about colleges where they get most of their information, and that is online, not from watching college football games.
Yes, we had a great football year in 2022 and got valuable media exposure. And it's also true that applications for admissions were up in fall of 2022 compared to 2021. But to say that the increase in applications in 2022 was a result of our football success in 2022 is to misunderstand how the applications process works. The students we're after spend their junior year in high school exploring options. By early summer they have narrowed their list down and they make visits in summer and early fall. Then they decide where they're going to apply. So almost all the applications we got in 2022 were from high school seniors who had already had us on their radar since at least spring. They didn't first hear about us by happening to watch the SDSU game.
Valid points, but don't underestimate the social scene a successful athletics program (primarily football and basketball) creates. And, student satisfaction with that social scene spreads more rapidly now as kids are getting their info online via social media etc. There is a direct correlation between the success of those teams and the volume of applications. It may be far smaller at a school like HC, but there absolutely is a direct positive correlation.
|
|
|
Post by midwestsader05 on Jan 4, 2024 15:16:07 GMT -5
It may be the perception of social media but I would say the athlete/non athlete divide is less now than when I was on hill the ~20 years ago. It’s just so easy to find and connect with people of similar interests, values etc than it was then. Granted social media can create it’s own digital bubbles but cliques were very real and one had to make a concerted effort to break them down.
I remember how many new friends I made in the one spring semester once football was done and didn’t monopolize so much time/energy. It’s easier to find those folks now IMO.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Jan 8, 2024 16:08:40 GMT -5
I wish there were a way (maybe student survey?) of gauging what effect the Prior PAC has had on prospective student interest, applications, and yield……. My guess is a lot from theater/arts majors. Less among the political science majors
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Jan 12, 2024 8:12:27 GMT -5
Read some rumblings about serious NIL infractions at FSU. Penalties are on the way. Don't know the details. Obviously, there is no connection to HC's 1843 Collective.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Jan 12, 2024 8:28:51 GMT -5
Read some rumblings about serious NIL infractions at FSU. Penalties are on the way. Don't know the details. Obviously, there is no connection to HC's 1843 Collective. My guess is what happened at FSU has been rampant at big time schools since the inception of NIL. Not sure why FSU has been singled out.
|
|
|
Post by nhteamer on Jan 12, 2024 8:34:52 GMT -5
I wish there were a way (maybe student survey?) of gauging what effect the Prior PAC has had on prospective student interest, applications, and yield……. My guess is a lot from theater/arts majors. Less among the political science majors Fabulous!
|
|
|
Post by newfieguy74 on Jan 12, 2024 8:46:38 GMT -5
I wish there were a way (maybe student survey?) of gauging what effect the Prior PAC has had on prospective student interest, applications, and yield……. My guess is a lot from theater/arts majors. Less among the political science majors The PPAC was designed to be a home for theater/performing arts, but also a gathering place for all students. It's a brilliant design. It's also the home of the Cantor Art Gallery, which is very highly thought of (there was a very positive review of an exhibit in the NY Times a few years ago). I think it's difficult to gauge its influence on prospective student interest, but I think it's great that HC has a space that appeals to students with interests in the performing arts. On a personal level, my daughter, who has no interest in sports, was particular about going to a college that had strong choral and theater offerings.
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Jan 26, 2024 10:12:59 GMT -5
From Hoya Country
To view this email as a web page, go here. Jack Leavitt Header Hoya Faithful,
Intercollegiate athletics at the Division I level has evolved over the past 150 years from student-run and loosely organized extracurricular activities to a highly organized and regulated managed enterprise with affiliated schools in separate conferences and within a national organization of institutions with similar athletic programs. In other words, it has gotten a lot more complicated.
We are proud of the way Georgetown Athletics has responded to the challenges presented throughout this evolution, embracing the new opportunities they have offered. Today, we are facing a brand-new frontier: the existential challenge/opportunity called NIL (short for Name, Image, and Likeness). You can learn more about Georgetown’s NIL policy and programs here.
Our response at Georgetown to this redefined environment is still evolving along with the nationwide NIL landscape itself. I am writing to you now to share the first-ever progress report from Hoyas Rising (please click the link below), the Collective established, within the past year outside the Department and University, to support the NIL activities of our 780 students engaged in intercollegiate athletics. Hoyas Rising Progress Report
I would like to express my sincere thanks to Hoyas Rising Chairman, Tim Brosnan (C '80), as well as the Board of Directors and the Advisory Committee of Hoyas Rising. Additionally, I would like to express my gratitude to our athletics department staff for their tireless efforts in supporting our students as it relates to this initiative!
I would especially like to thank the many members of the Georgetown community who have taken the time to understand and financially support this important endeavor. The success of our athletic programs is, and will be, directly linked to our ability to engage the broader community in support of this emerging initiative. While it may be difficult for some to embrace, navigating this new frontier is a top strategic priority for our department. And in a real sense, our intercollegiate student-athletes will realize some of the self-determination they once enjoyed 154 years ago on the Hilltop!
Please take time to educate yourself about Hoyas Rising through their website and please continue to support this new and exciting opportunity to support the efforts of our student athletes directly, as they refine and maximize their personal brands.
Thanks again for the many ways in which you support our great University and athletics programs and thank you for making Georgetown Intercollegiate Athletics one of the best programs in the nation!
Hoya Saxa! Jack Leavitt Lee Reed Francis X. Rienzo, Director of Intercollegiate Athletics
|
|