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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 8:15:57 GMT -5
Last place in the President's Cup does not warrant a promotion. Let's enjoy the excitement of moving up in the league that has started.
Three out of five revenue sports had winning records this year, now let's get the other sports improving.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 8:23:07 GMT -5
TBT We are going to wait & see how realignment works out. In football it seems there will be a new super power division, followed by the FBS then down to the FCS with the PL. However there are no guarantees the PL will survive in the FCS. A drop to DivII or III while unlikely is possible. Div I basketball is complicated. The Big Dance is a lure. But, I can't see HC playing the money game, one & done & the like. Also, our small size does place a limit on our budget. Years back I knew a young fella' who was an unpaid assistant at Dayton. The comparison between Dayton's basketball spending & the spending by HC was striking. Actually, he liked & respected the Cross. It was clear HC would have to dramatically increase its spending & change academic policies for the school to successfully compete on a higher level. And, today would need to do so in an increasingly professionalized, unstable, big time college sports environment. Does HC have the resources? Is the school willing to divert money away from academics to athletics? Is the school willing to abandon its long held academic policy for athletes? Is the leadership willing to make these transformative changes? Would stakeholders approve? Is there the resolve in the broader HC community(not merely the few Crossports posters) to do what is necessary to compete in the A10 or BE? I think the future of HC is clear. Peace. The comparison is striking. HC pays it's assistants. The key to success is coaching. We have to keep our coaches who can win at HC for as long as possible and wean our losing coaches as inexpensively as possible. Contracts longer on incentives than guarantees is one policy that can help as well as picking coaches whose background indicates they can actually win at our unique institution.
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Post by cruskater31 on Apr 4, 2024 8:47:49 GMT -5
It appears Clemson et al in the ACC will be locked in for at least the academic year. I think any changes like 3 or 4 power conferences or some super league won't come about for at least 1-2 years. Any ripple down to the FCS (such as FBS teams looking to grab the best/highest profile FCS programs) could be an additional year. I think that gives us time to continue building in hoops and keep the winning tradition alive in FCS football. Prior to the creation of any FBS mega conference, it would probably be unwise for HC to move unless given a golden opportunity. After the conference is created, I think it is fair game depending on where things go (such as a level in between FCS and FBS consisting of top FCS teams and the Rice's of the FBS world) after the cataclysmic realignment.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 9:01:31 GMT -5
Exit and entrance fees will kill ya. Plus you look foolish jumping leagues that are themselves disintegrating. Any macro changes in college athletics will effect PL members similarly so it's probably best to settle in at the right level as a league and let other programs run around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for the perfect fit among sifting sands.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Apr 4, 2024 9:10:35 GMT -5
The reason there won’t be more than maybe 4-6 FCS teams that make the jump to a FBS (G5) type level over the next few years is that most football programs don’t generate the financial Resources to fund an additional 22 scholarships (63 to 85) and offset that with an additional 22 female athletic scholarships. It’s simply a money issue for most colleges.
And for those might make the move (a Delaware), the FCS will backfill with a quality division 2 program like they just did with West Georgia. Just look at the success of long time D2 programs like Tarleton State and Abilene Christian (both attendance and competitiveness) that made the FCS move. There will be some disruption but the FCS should be fine long-term.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 9:35:25 GMT -5
Good points. Delaware and Connecticut, although relatively small state universities, each have an entire state with no major league level pro sports franchise, and their state legislatures behind them. They are well suited to compete at a higher level. HC doesn't have our own legislature and we have numerous major and minor pro franchises within an hour's drive.
We have miles to go before we sleep in our own division/subdivision.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 4, 2024 9:53:20 GMT -5
"...miles to go before we sleep." I do like the sound of that. Remember every journey begins with a single step.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 4, 2024 10:36:22 GMT -5
The reason there won’t be more than maybe 4-6 FCS teams that make the jump to a FBS (G5) type level over the next few years is that most football programs don’t generate the financial Resources to fund an additional 22 scholarships (63 to 85) and offset that with an additional 22 female athletic scholarships. It’s simply a money issue for most colleges. And for those might make the move (a Delaware), the FCS will backfill with a quality division 2 program like they just did with West Georgia. Just look at the success of long time D2 programs like Tarleton State and Abilene Christian (both attendance and competitiveness) that made the FCS move. There will be some disruption but the FCS should be fine long-term. A lot of FCS schools want out, particularly those in the WAC, Southland, and Big South. A year of tuition at Tarleton State is $10,294.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 10:44:43 GMT -5
"...miles to go before we sleep." I do like the sound of that. Remeber every journey begins with a single step. From "Stopping by woods on a snowy evening" by Robert Frost
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Post by efg72 on Apr 4, 2024 10:52:39 GMT -5
Failed to successfully compete in the MAAC. Won one championship, shared w/LaSalle in our years in the league. HC has not been willing to make the large expenditures to compete with larger programs. Failure to compete in the PL is not a stepping stone to compete in a higher level conference. HC's decisions are academically based as they should be. The PL is a good fit with like minded academic institutions. MM, I think we are aligned, but with that said, the reason we do nothing more is that the board and Administration have little or no desire to increase the investment of the treasures in athletic programs—I think that is how the PL member schools are linked. That linkage about like-minded academic institutions made the move many years ago understandable to many and acceptable to others. When our boomer generation and perhaps the next generation are no longer active and the athletic history and tradition no longer significantly impact the institution's financial support (general fund/estate giving/ athletics, etc.), they might consider less expensive options. This is a potential scenario that we need to be prepared for and underscores the importance of increasing investments today in our athletic programs. I am not saying we should consider or explore the possibilities of a move, mostly because in the world of today, some improved version of the PL might be the best solution for HC. As realignment takes place over the next couple of years, it is likely that we will welcome a few new partners in the next edition of the Patriot League, and yes, we might lose a couple, including the academies. The Athletic Directors should start envisioning the next edition of the Patriot League, one that not only improves the quality of play but also requires its members to demonstrate a shared commitment to academic and athletic excellence. While there are similar models embraced by other schools in the northeast this could be designed for the mission and benefit of Holy Cross!
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Post by midwestsader05 on Apr 4, 2024 12:19:17 GMT -5
Failed to successfully compete in the MAAC. Won one championship, shared w/LaSalle in our years in the league. HC has not been willing to make the large expenditures to compete with larger programs. Failure to compete in the PL is not a stepping stone to compete in a higher level conference. HC's decisions are academically based as they should be. The PL is a good fit with like minded academic institutions. MM, I think we are aligned, but with that said, the reason we do nothing more is that the board and Administration have little or no desire to increase the investment of the treasures in athletic programs—I think that is how the PL member schools are linked. That linkage about like-minded academic institutions made the move many years ago understandable to many and acceptable to others. When our boomer generation and perhaps the next generation are no longer active and the athletic history and tradition no longer significantly impact the institution's financial support (general fund/estate giving/ athletics, etc.), they might consider less expensive options. This is a potential scenario that we need to be prepared for and underscores the importance of increasing investments today in our athletic programs. I am not saying we should consider or explore the possibilities of a move, mostly because in the world of today, some improved version of the PL might be the best solution for HC. As realignment takes place over the next couple of years, it is likely that we will welcome a few new partners in the next edition of the Patriot League, and yes, we might lose a couple, including the academies. The Athletic Directors should start envisioning the next edition of the Patriot League, one that not only improves the quality of play but also requires its members to demonstrate a shared commitment to academic and athletic excellence. While there are similar models embraced by other schools in the northeast this could be designed for the mission and benefit of Holy Cross! DHarry will be the first to tell you, PL football is recruiting better these last couple cycles. A tough break for G’Town yesterday as one of their top recruits (a DB from GA) decommitted and will sign with Virginia. The kid had some really good FCS and a couple FBS offers. Just another signal that while they ultimately lost that “win” the PL is recruiting higher caliber players across the board.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Apr 4, 2024 12:36:46 GMT -5
Goid points. Delaware and Connecticut, although relatively small state universities, each have an entire state with no major league level pro sports franchise, and their state legislatures behind them. They are well suited to compete at a higher level. HC doesn't have our own legislature and we have numerous major and minor pro franchises within an hour's drive. We have miles to go before we sleep in our own division/subdivision. The television sports in CT lead with UConn sports every night. If there is nothing going on with UConn sports they lead with high school sports. Many people in CT are scheduling this weekend so that they can watch the UConn basketball games.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Apr 4, 2024 13:10:50 GMT -5
The reason there won’t be more than maybe 4-6 FCS teams that make the jump to a FBS (G5) type level over the next few years is that most football programs don’t generate the financial Resources to fund an additional 22 scholarships (63 to 85) and offset that with an additional 22 female athletic scholarships. It’s simply a money issue for most colleges. And for those might make the move (a Delaware), the FCS will backfill with a quality division 2 program like they just did with West Georgia. Just look at the success of long time D2 programs like Tarleton State and Abilene Christian (both attendance and competitiveness) that made the FCS move. There will be some disruption but the FCS should be fine long-term. A lot of FCS schools want out, particularly those in the WAC, Southland, and Big South. A year of tuition at Tarleton State is $10,294. I'm very familiar with Tarleton as I have both family members and friends that are graduates. I agree that they (along with Central Arkansas and Eastern Kentucky) would be the 3 UAC (no longer WAC) programs that C-USA will target for expansion. The bigger question is ultimately what happens with the Big 4 - NDSU, SDSU, Montana and Montana State. The only landing spot is the Mountain West and there's no immediate interest from either side right now after the affiliate additions of Oregon State and Washington State. I disagree on the Southland and Big South-OVC. UT Martin maybe outside shot. Only other program I know is at least entertaining the idea is Missouri State (MVC to C-USA) so that just leads me back to maybe a half dozen make the leap in the next 2-3 years as it's tougher to look out further than that assuming the P4 does break away with its own "Super League" during that time frame.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 4, 2024 13:19:06 GMT -5
With regards to the Dakotas, there are also political complications where state legislature aren't going to allow NDSU and SDSU to leave behind UND and USD. And no FBS conference would want all 4.
I believe this is also why NDSU and SDSU to the Mountain West for all sports is a non-starter for now as well.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 13:40:29 GMT -5
Parachuting into the Dakotas, where I've never been, why do I want to give up some of the best quality football in the world for G-5 to fight for a spot in the tidy bowl?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 4, 2024 14:05:28 GMT -5
Parachuting into the Dakotas, where I've never been, why do I want to give up some of the best quality football in the world for G-5 to fight for a spot in the tidy bowl? It's all about $.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 14:08:42 GMT -5
Parachuting into the Dakotas, where I've never been, why do I want to give up some of the best quality football in the world for G-5 to fight for a spot in the tidy bowl? It's all about $. How profitable is G-5 FB? UMass and UConn certainly aren't smoking fat Cuban cigars from FB profits.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 4, 2024 14:21:35 GMT -5
How profitable is G-5 FB? UMass and UConn certainly aren't smoking fat Cuban cigars from FB profits. More profitable than FCS. And that doesn't mean every FBS program makes money. It just means that in general you lose less money in G5 than in FCS.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 14:29:17 GMT -5
How profitable is G-5 FB? UMass and UConn certainly aren't smoking fat Cuban cigars from FB profits. More profitable than FCS. And that doesn't mean every FBS program makes money. It just means that in general you lose less money in G5 than in FCS. Private schools with per student total cost pushing 90 grand need to run the numbers carefully. Lower cost State schools have an advantage there.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 4, 2024 14:54:08 GMT -5
More profitable than FCS. And that doesn't mean every FBS program makes money. It just means that in general you lose less money in G5 than in FCS. Private schools with per student total cost pushing 90 grand need to run the numbers carefully. Lower cost State schools have an advantage there. State schools have an even bigger advantage than the difference in price tag. A Holy Cross football player on full scholarship, for example, takes a seat in the class from another student who would otherwise pay anywhere up to full tuition. At McNeese State, 85 football players that commit to attending on a full ride are just 85 more students than would've otherwise matriculated, if that makes sense.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Apr 4, 2024 15:07:19 GMT -5
Live realignment update: just announced the NEC will fill the departures of Sacred Heart and Merrimack with Robert Morris coming back as an affiliate football member and D2 Mercyhurst moving up.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 15:29:35 GMT -5
Westward ho for the NEC, a league that gives schools new to D-1 a chance. It's a plucky little league that nobody is going to put out of business because it fills a need.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 4, 2024 15:40:54 GMT -5
Private schools with per student total cost pushing 90 grand need to run the numbers carefully. Lower cost State schools have an advantage there. State schools have an even bigger advantage than the difference in price tag. A Holy Cross football player on full scholarship, for example, takes a seat in the class from another student who would otherwise pay anywhere up to full tuition. At McNeese State, 85 football players that commit to attending on a full ride are just 85 more students than would've otherwise matriculated, if that makes sense. It makes sense as State schools have a mission to make educational opportunities accessible in their region of their state so they have to be more flexible with admission totals than an HC who has a mission to be as selective as possible.
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Post by thecrossisback on Apr 4, 2024 16:30:54 GMT -5
"Failure to compete in the PL is not a stepping stone to compete in a higher level conference." Correct! It baffles me why some are unable to understand that. Let HCDP get HC men's hoops back up to where the women are and THEN look at our options. Otherwise, simply post "I hate the PL" and be done with it. If HC can't beat all of our PL opponents, why would losing to "better" opponents benefit HC in any way? Yes it’s fun but being the 16th seed in ghe NCAA tournament does meant a long tournament run. Schedule is to weak. Better players want to play in better conferences. What does the PL offer big time games on tv? Media attention?
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Post by cruskater31 on Apr 5, 2024 8:56:53 GMT -5
Are we really going to be in the same subdivision as Mercyhurst? From a pure "feels" perspective, it feels like we belong with Harvard and Yale, AWP, Navy, the Dakotas and Montanas of the world, but Mercyhurst and RMU? At least we are not in the same conference as them. If they tried to get in the PL (which calm down guys it wouldn't happen with academic indexes and the like) I'd rather be an affiliate of the mvfc.
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