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Post by longsuffering on Dec 22, 2023 22:34:03 GMT -5
Answer = A lack of faith in our athletes. I only got this second or third hand and I did say iot was just a personal opinion. I feel it was a misplaced attempt to help pur student athletes. A desperate attempt to justify the unjustifiable by a member of a board that was supposed to be in charge? |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 23, 2023 0:59:11 GMT -5
Based only on college careers, i think the following are the nominations (in no particular order). I'll let you all, based on your superior knowledge, award the winners. Apologies to those left off, no offense intended. Excuse proper name misspellings: All Purpose: Gordie QB: Sluka, Randolph, Wiley, Lentz, Ciacco RB: Fuller, Fuller, Fenerty, Wilson, Sigreti, Silva WR: Coker, Confessor, Roman, Gallahger TE: Andrews OL: Bruce, Golden, Quay or Claro, Promuto, Conner, Ron George DL: Vincent, Puloka - need more help here LB: Dobbs, McGovern, McCabe, Streeter, Flaherty, Dugan (Dave), McBeath DB: Julio, Michael Blake - need more help here as well. Returner: Raymond I knew Jon Morris as a perennial All-star center for the Boston Patriots. Isn't it logical that he was outstanding in college also? Yes |
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 23, 2023 9:10:32 GMT -5
Answer = A lack of faith in our athletes. I only got this second or third hand and I did say iot was just a personal opinion. I feel it was a misplaced attempt to help pur student athletes. A desperate attempt to justify the unjustifiable by a member of a board that was supposed to be in charge? Desperate? Not at all. Why would you go there? |
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Post by hchoops on Dec 23, 2023 9:19:25 GMT -5
I knew Jon Morris as a perennial All-star center for the Boston Patriots. Isn't it logical that he was outstanding in college also? Yes Definitely, playing two way football, center and middle LB/nose guard Also Glen Grieco was a dominant nose guard in the mid/late 60s |
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Post by trimster on Dec 23, 2023 9:22:19 GMT -5
Without a doubt. One of HC’s greats. John Andreoli might deserve a look at DE. Another outstanding DE was Dick Krysiak in the 60’s. |
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Post by breezy on Dec 23, 2023 10:08:13 GMT -5
Also Glen Grieco was a dominant nose guard in the mud/late 60s Indeed! He was superb! |
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Post by deep Purple on Dec 23, 2023 10:48:21 GMT -5
Fenerty (when healthy) was the best HC RB ovah the last 50 or so years (my years of HC fandom).....some may go with RI's own Bullet Bill Osmanski Fenerty was completely ridiculous. Never saw any RBs before him so I’ll put him and Jerome on my team. Ciaccio and Wiley at QB. Sluka in a Taysom Hill role. I was thinking the same thing. |
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Post by 78purple on Dec 23, 2023 11:17:02 GMT -5
Fenerty was completely ridiculous. Never saw any RBs before him so I’ll put him and Jerome on my team. Ciaccio and Wiley at QB. Sluka in a Taysom Hill role. I was thinking the same thing. Mr. Wilson was pretty darn good.... |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 23, 2023 11:29:55 GMT -5
Wouldn’t hurt to have Dom Cozier as a backup
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Post by hcpride on Dec 23, 2023 11:41:35 GMT -5
Without a doubt. One of HC’s greats. John Andreoli might deserve a look at DE. Another outstanding DE was Dick Krysiak in the 60’s. Dave Boisture (mentioned earlier) and John Andreoli are in a similar category IMHO. Very good, but the guys who followed almost immediately on their heels (Muldoon and Raquet for example) might have been stronger. |
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 23, 2023 12:13:54 GMT -5
A desperate attempt to justify the unjustifiable by a member of a board that was supposed to be in charge? Desperate? Not at all. Why would you go there? I was thinking the strong Jesuit CEO (College President) model under Father Brooks might have made Trustees of the College feel powerless if they happened to disagree on issues such as the Big East, post season play in football etc, but also felt like they should defer to the Jesuit Priest President. But of course I'm just projecting because I really don't even know for sure if Father Brooks wanted to join the Big East and wanted the Duffner teams to rep HC in the post season but was out-voted by the Trustees. I have never seen minutes of Trustees meetings and votes posted on Crossports so I assume they are not publicly available. I do have the impression that going co-education was officially a Trustees vote and not sure if Father Brooks was leading or following in the first couple of years of his Presidency on that issue. The drift of posts indicates Father Brooks ruled with an iron hand on major sports decisions. I (we) really don't know for sure unless any posters were trustees at the time. I do suspect that if Holy Cross accepted post season invites for the Duffner teams the league would have fallen in line and rooted the Crusaders on with pride, since the PL approved post season play on it's own later. My understanding is post season selections/invites go to the school not the league so if HC had told the NCAA they would play in the playoffs it would not require league approval at the time. Sorry you asked for an explanation now?🤣 |
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 23, 2023 12:27:16 GMT -5
Well said!  Thanks. |
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Post by breezy on Dec 23, 2023 12:47:35 GMT -5
This thread gives me a chance to tell a story. I attended a reception on campus on the day that Jeff Wiley's name was to be added to the Ring of Honor. I had a chance to chat briefly with Jeff and told him the following story (which he enjoyed, and which, trusting in my memory, was absolutey true).
I told Jeff that I had a distinct recollection of a newspaper article regarding an upcoming Holy Cross game. I did not then, and still today do not, remember the opposing team or that team's coach. As I relayed to Jeff, the opposing coach was asked how he was preparing to deal with Gordy Lockbaum in the upcoming game, and the opposing coach responded (as I recall) pretty much as follows: "Well, Lockbaum is a great player and he will present some real challenges for our team. But, the Holy Cross player who really scares me -- is Jeff Wiley."
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Post by mm67 on Dec 23, 2023 14:26:06 GMT -5
I knew Jon Morris as a perennial All-star center for the Boston Patriots. Isn't it logical that he was outstanding in college also? Yes OMG Where is Jon Morris. Easily the finest at his position in my 60+ years following HC football. He was a big time FBS level All America before there was FBS, Still. it is fun to look back and to today to give each of these great players their due. GoCrossGo |
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 23, 2023 14:57:32 GMT -5
That is indeed fun, along with remembering all of the men who were mentioned here. My own background had me involved in assembling many all-star teams as a coach and as a sports writer. I came to see them as only pushing talented people down, and only in elevating a very few. The Ring of Honor highlights many of the HC greats - no problem for me there. However when putting only a few on an "all-time" team IMHO forces an injustice to those not included. My all-star teams often had "ties" because the two athletes were so close in ability and performance that there was no "meaningful" difference between them. I enjoy the memories that come back when I see you try to put this together. I also wish there was not a need to try to find artificial differences so we can choose between them. Be well and Merry Christmas. I believe it is a better holiday than Easter - even though the Catholic Church says that is the most important feast day. Actually, now that I think of it, having the family together at Thanksgiving with no pressure to buy presents may make that #1. See my "all-star phobia" extends even beyond sports.  |
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 23, 2023 15:23:08 GMT -5
While this thread is interesting, any "all star list" is usually voted on by either a committee or the fans. So far, this strikes me as seeking nominations.
May I suggest that after it appears everyone of note has been expressed that someone (no, not me!) put together a ballot of sorts and we could have the Crossports "Crusader football All-Time All-Stars Team."
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Post by timholycross on Dec 23, 2023 16:09:53 GMT -5
Wiley was never given the chance Why didn’t we participate in the playoffs then?? The agreement when the league was formed was "no postseason play" from the get-go. Didn't coincide with phasing out scholarships, Ironically, 4-5 years after the program was an also-ran, the league presidents rescinded the ban. Took HC a good 10-12 years after that to qualify. |
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Post by timholycross on Dec 23, 2023 16:20:27 GMT -5
Desperate? Not at all. Why would you go there? I was thinking the strong Jesuit CEO (College President) model under Father Brooks might have made Trustees of the College feel powerless if they happened to disagree on issues such as the Big East, post season play in football etc, but also felt like they should defer to the Jesuit Priest President. But of course I'm just projecting because I really don't even know for sure if Father Brooks wanted to join the Big East and wanted the Duffner teams to rep HC in the post season but was out-voted by the Trustees. I have never seen minutes of Trustees meetings and votes posted on Crossports so I assume they are not publicly available. I do have the impression that going co-education was officially a Trustees vote and not sure if Father Brooks was leading or following in the first couple of years of his Presidency on that issue. The drift of posts indicates Father Brooks ruled with an iron hand on major sports decisions. I (we) really don't know for sure unless any posters were trustees at the time. I do suspect that if Holy Cross accepted post season invites for the Duffner teams the league would have fallen in line and rooted the Crusaders on with pride, since the PL approved post season play on it's own later. My understanding is post season selections/invites go to the school not the league so if HC had told the NCAA they would play in the playoffs it would not require league approval at the time. Sorry you asked for an explanation now?🤣 No question Father Brooks led and convinced others in high places that his position(s) were the right ones. Agree w/his decisions or not; he stayed true to his convictions. |
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Post by hc1996 on Dec 23, 2023 16:25:24 GMT -5
True to his convictions for sure. I respect that. But, he was clearly wrong. And his opinion cost the institution dearly. It’s really scary how the opinions of one man can impact something so severely for decades.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 23, 2023 17:35:22 GMT -5
True to his convictions for sure. I respect that. But, he was clearly wrong. And his opinion cost the institution dearly. It’s really scary how the opinions of one man can impact something so severely for decades. I don’t know. I think his convictions changed regarding football and scholarships at some point. He was a supporter of scholarship football when we were chasing and landing Rick Carter to revive our floundering football program. Five years later, Father Brooks’ unrequited Ivy love kicked in and he was no longer interested in scholarship football. Instead, something he dreamed would be a semi-Ivy affiliated (LOL) non-scholarship football league was born. Shocking Rick Carter and many others. |
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Post by mm67 on Dec 24, 2023 10:13:29 GMT -5
Actually, Fr. Brooks was dead set against post season games. First hand I know he felt it was intrusive on academics. He recognized the seductiveness & dangers of overemphasis.
I get a big kick from some of the comments. No sense re-litigating this for the umpteenth time. The past is past. We are what we are. As to the future? Who knows? How is that for a series of cliches?
It is my hope HC will continue to maintain a proper perspective on the role of athletics in an elite academics setting. Return to the HC All Stars?
Happy Holidays.
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Post by gks on Dec 24, 2023 10:17:16 GMT -5
Actually, Fr. Brooks was dead set against post season games. First hand I know he felt it was intrusive on academics. He recognized the seductiveness & dangers of overemphasis. I get a big kick from some of the comments. No sense re-litigating this for the umpteenth time. The past is past. We are what we are. As to the future? Who knows? How is that for a series of cliches? It is my hope HC will continue to maintain a proper perspective on the role of athletics in an elite academics setting. Return to the HC All Stars? Happy Holidays. HIs paradox was that he only felt this way with football. If you're dead set against post seasons then do it for all....and I'm talking hoops and hockey. Perspective is different for every school. HC knows what there's is. |
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Post by hcpride on Dec 24, 2023 10:28:25 GMT -5
Actually, Fr. Brooks was dead set against post season games. First hand I know he felt it was intrusive on academics. He recognized the seductiveness & dangers of overemphasis. I get a big kick from some of the comments. No sense re-litigating this for the umpteenth time. The past is past. We are what we are. As to the future? Who knows? How is that for a series of cliches? It is my hope HC will continue to maintain a proper perspective on the role of athletics in an elite academics setting. Return to the HC All Stars? Happy Holidays. HIs paradox was that he only felt this way with football. If you're dead set against post seasons then do it for all....and I'm talking hoops and hockey. Perspective is different for every school. HC knows what there's is. I don't know. Two years prior to the emergence of his enthusiasm for what he dreamed would be a semi-Ivy (LOL) non-scholarship football league, President Brooks did not seem to have a problem with us participating in the 2nd round of the I-AA football playoffs. One of the many reasons his decision to create such a non-schollie league shocked Rick Carter and others. |
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 24, 2023 10:57:40 GMT -5
Cripes! It's Christmas. Let Fr. Brooks rest in peace. None of us can change the past, including and especially Fr. Brooks. He's gone . . . . . literally. Keep it up, guys and I will start to re-litigate the Crusader mascot/logo/cognomen decision of the dearly departed Fr. Boroughs (yes, I know he's still alive but he's departed Holy Cross). You'll regret it, I promise!  |
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Post by mm67 on Dec 24, 2023 11:03:37 GMT -5
With your forbearance: May I add one last thought as an explanation of the views of the late, great Fr. Brooks?
I think Fr. Brooks was concerned about the physicality of football and the time away from class in preparation for bowl/playoff games. In referring to playing post season, I heard him say they ought to give these players a saliva test, referring to the demands of classwork & studying for final exams while taking time to prep for post season play. There was a time teams competed only within their allotted season - football in the autumn, preseason summer practice only, no spring practice; basketball in the late autumn through winter into early spring, etc. It was a way to keep athletics in check and help keep the students focused on their reason for attending HC, namely, academics. I realize this all may seem quaint and totally unrealistic to some. Onto HC All Stars? Peace.
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Thanks.
