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Post by hc6774 on Feb 12, 2024 16:40:23 GMT -5
I fail to understand this obsession with roster size. What difference does it make if you have 100 on your roster or 120? Last time I looked you can only play eleven at a time. Cost. See, www.diycollegerankings.com/who-pays-for-college-athletes-insurance/9288/I do not know whether HC provides health insurance, for sports-related injuries, for all sports, or for some sports, e.g., ice hockey, football, hoops, or for no sports. the kit/equipment worn by an individual footballer (x 100 +/-) is probably a factor. |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 12, 2024 18:47:39 GMT -5
No non-med redshirts can't help HC against OOC foes. But it can help level the playing field for undergraduate-only HC in competition for the PL auto-bid. Yes? No? Not worth it even if it does? Not sure I understand your question but HC had plenty of '5th years' the last few years and we are are undergraduate - only. To the extent that is significant. Most of our opponents (PL and OOC had them too). Not sure what you mean by 'worth it'. I think the cost is the same as no '5th years' or just '5th years' for medical redshirts. Since there is a limit on schollies. I guess you could say the last few years were a more level playing field for us. Given our success the last few years I imagine our AD wants to retain the expanded '5th-year' option. I had convoluted wording to ask if not having graduate programs hurts HC competitively in the PL against the schools that have them. Lafayette is the only other team without at least some graduate studies I believe, and that is a logical area of growth for schools with only small current graduate offerings. If a player is good enough for a fifth year scholarship he can get a free year of graduate study elsewhere but still only a bachelor degree at HC. It's been breaking both ways with some fifth years staying but some good ones opting for free graduate school elsewhere. So I'm thinking HC has a more even playing field in the PL without non-medical red shirts, but a less competitive position outside the conference without non-medical red shirts. Thus if you make the FCS playoffs you are glad to have non-medical red shirts but it is a little tougher to win the league with them and without graduate programs. Simple🙂 |
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Post by efg72 on Feb 12, 2024 18:59:09 GMT -5
Let’s review this conversation in two years for hoops and football. At that point the programs will be at their high point and our choices will be more obvious.
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Post by Ignutz on Feb 12, 2024 22:19:26 GMT -5
Not sure I understand your question but HC had plenty of '5th years' the last few years and we are are undergraduate - only. To the extent that is significant. Most of our opponents (PL and OOC had them too). Not sure what you mean by 'worth it'. I think the cost is the same as no '5th years' or just '5th years' for medical redshirts. Since there is a limit on schollies. I guess you could say the last few years were a more level playing field for us. Given our success the last few years I imagine our AD wants to retain the expanded '5th-year' option. I had convoluted wording to ask if not having graduate programs hurts HC competitively in the PL against the schools that have them. Lafayette is the only other team without at least some graduate studies I believe, and that is a logical area of growth for schools with only small current graduate offerings. If a player is good enough for a fifth year scholarship he can get a free year of graduate study elsewhere but still only a bachelor degree at HC. It's been breaking both ways with some fifth years staying but some good ones opting for free graduate school elsewhere. So I'm thinking HC has a more even playing field in the PL without non-medical red shirts, but a less competitive position outside the conference without non-medical red shirts. Thus if you make the FCS playoffs you are glad to have non-medical red shirts but it is a little tougher to win the league with them and without graduate programs. Simple🙂 Back in the 70s, we had a 3/2 program with WPI, wherein a student could get a BA and BS in five years. My recollection is that we now have something similar with Dartmouth and Columbia. Could a football player structure his studies to do non-HC classes in Spring semesters, and be on-campus for the Fall season? (Obviously, not an option for cagers.) |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 12, 2024 22:24:12 GMT -5
I had convoluted wording to ask if not having graduate programs hurts HC competitively in the PL against the schools that have them. Lafayette is the only other team without at least some graduate studies I believe, and that is a logical area of growth for schools with only small current graduate offerings. If a player is good enough for a fifth year scholarship he can get a free year of graduate study elsewhere but still only a bachelor degree at HC. It's been breaking both ways with some fifth years staying but some good ones opting for free graduate school elsewhere. So I'm thinking HC has a more even playing field in the PL without non-medical red shirts, but a less competitive position outside the conference without non-medical red shirts. Thus if you make the FCS playoffs you are glad to have non-medical red shirts but it is a little tougher to win the league with them and without graduate programs. Simple🙂 Back in the 70s, we had a 3/2 program with WPI, wherein a student could get a BA and BS in five years. My recollection is that we now have something similar with Dartmouth and Columbia. Could a football player structure his studies to do non-HC classes in Spring semesters, and be on-campus for the Fall season? (Obviously, not an option for cagers.) That would be a good work around. |
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 219
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Post by hc69 on Feb 12, 2024 22:39:37 GMT -5
I don't know about the Dartmouth program but I assume it is the same as the Columbia program. The student does the first three years as a HC student. He/she then does the next two years as a Columbia student and graduates with degrees from both. The courses taken at Columbia are sequenced by semester and require prerequisites that must be completed before enrolling at Columbia. The student can't alternate semesters between the two schools.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 13, 2024 6:51:25 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Feb 13, 2024 8:02:50 GMT -5
Not sure I understand your question but HC had plenty of '5th years' the last few years and we are are undergraduate - only. To the extent that is significant. Most of our opponents (PL and OOC had them too). Not sure what you mean by 'worth it'. I think the cost is the same as no '5th years' or just '5th years' for medical redshirts. Since there is a limit on schollies. I guess you could say the last few years were a more level playing field for us. Given our success the last few years I imagine our AD wants to retain the expanded '5th-year' option. I had convoluted wording to ask if not having graduate programs hurts HC competitively in the PL against the schools that have them... If you have that question regarding PL football, you have the last three years to look at that would indicate the answer is no. And a no regarding our many OOC games. As far as other sports are concerned I don't think that has been a factor in our struggles. More a question of recruiting. |
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Post by hc1996 on Feb 13, 2024 8:11:06 GMT -5
No non-med redshirts can't help HC against OOC foes. But it can help level the playing field for undergraduate-only HC in competition for the PL auto-bid. Yes? No? Not worth it even if it does? Not sure I understand your question but HC had plenty of '5th years' the last few years and we are are undergraduate - only. To the extent that is significant. Most of our opponents (PL and OOC had them too). Not sure what you mean by 'worth it'. I think the cost is the same as no '5th years' or just '5th years' for medical redshirts. Since there is a limit on schollies. I guess you could say the last few years were a more level playing field for us. Given our success the last few years I imagine our AD wants to retain the expanded '5th-year' option. I think HC is advocating for a solution that allows for a 9th semester, not necessarily a fifth year. I could be wrong. Time will tell. |
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Post by hc6774 on Feb 13, 2024 8:20:31 GMT -5
I believe there is a similar effort with Clark. undergrad 5th season options? delay graduation until after the 5th season - adjust course selection for double degrees to include 9th semester on campus or - drop out after the fall semester for personal reasons/options e.g. internship; return for 8th semester |
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Post by gks on Feb 13, 2024 8:35:42 GMT -5
Not sure I understand your question but HC had plenty of '5th years' the last few years and we are are undergraduate - only. To the extent that is significant. Most of our opponents (PL and OOC had them too). Not sure what you mean by 'worth it'. I think the cost is the same as no '5th years' or just '5th years' for medical redshirts. Since there is a limit on schollies. I guess you could say the last few years were a more level playing field for us. Given our success the last few years I imagine our AD wants to retain the expanded '5th-year' option. I think HC is advocating for a solution that allows for a 9th semester, not necessarily a fifth year. I could be wrong. Time will tell. Biggest no-brainer in the history of Earth. |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 13, 2024 13:02:10 GMT -5
I think HC is advocating for a solution that allows for a 9th semester, not necessarily a fifth year. I could be wrong. Time will tell. Biggest no-brainer in the history of Earth. A choice between holding a bachelor degree and a free masters degree or just a bachelor degree at the same age requires a brain to decide between. The kids are not just x's and o's they are Jimmies and Joes. |
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Post by timholycross on Feb 13, 2024 13:20:40 GMT -5
the kit/equipment worn by an individual footballer (x 100 +/-) is probably a factor. With the contracts between manufacurers (adidas for sure) and HC, I'm not sure how much of a factor this is. Plus, someone's already footing the bill for 2 helmets per guy, which I'm sure is the most expensive part of the outfit. |
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Post by timholycross on Feb 13, 2024 13:23:03 GMT -5
The players are around in the summer; if they're in a program that includes classes at one of the other fine institutions in The Woo, that's got to be an option as well.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 13, 2024 13:26:55 GMT -5
It's beginning to irk me more as time goes on. Although I appreciate the history of the HC v. Ivy matchups and have advocated for that to continue well on into the future, I'm starting to change my mind. Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, but screw them. Maybe we are better off scheduling more CAA teams.... Currently, playing the two Ivy teams from Massachusetts and Connecticut is a matter of geographical convenience for HC as well as Harvard and Yale. The remaining New England Ivy League teams, Dartmouth and Brown apparently no longer desire to schedule HC. A bit of trepidation in that they are facing a formidable force on the gridiron. They were nice Saturday road trips in the past with the family. The collegiate football landscape has changed in the 21st Century, and so should we. Ivies playing outside of conference, prefer to stack the deck in their favor and play teams that they have a roster size and financial advantage. Outside of Harvard, Yale, and possibly Princeton, I see no financial reasons playing the five other Ivy members.
There is no longer a transformative academic prestige association with hanging with the Ivies for three Saturdays in September and October. The 20th Century is soooo over in that regard. Time to move on and continue to build the HC image on a global basis. Forge our path and image independently of any other institution. I agree with your post as a whole; I'd substitute Dartmouth for Princeton; nothing really significant (attendance, interest) came out of the (at most) half dozen games played w/them in the 80s and 90s other than the miracle finish. Dartmouth/HC has (had) a long history. |
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Post by Crucis#1 on Feb 13, 2024 15:05:48 GMT -5
I agree regarding the long and storied rivalry with Dartmouth. It was fun while it lasted. However, Dartmouth decided to discontinue the series with HC. They rather play Pioneer and NEC teams instead of HC. Unless McCorkle has a change of mind from Teevens, it may be another decade or longer before the series resumes.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 13, 2024 18:00:13 GMT -5
I agree regarding the long and storied rivalry with Dartmouth. It was fun while it lasted. However, Dartmouth decided to discontinue the series with HC. They rather play Pioneer and NEC teams instead of HC. Unless McCorkle has a change of mind from Teevens, it may be another decade or longer before the series resumes. Princeton's scheduled* through the decade, Dartmouth isn't; or at least hasn't announced anything. fbschedules.com/ncaa/dartmouth/However, you're probably right about the tradition being abandoned more or less permanently. *A home-and-home with Mercer, tournament qualifier in 2023, coming up the next two years. Home-and-home w/Monmouth, a game w/Bryant; the rest from Lehigh, Lafayette, Wagner, San Diego and Howard. |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 13, 2024 18:53:30 GMT -5
I agree regarding the long and storied rivalry with Dartmouth. It was fun while it lasted. However, Dartmouth decided to discontinue the series with HC. They rather play Pioneer and NEC teams instead of HC. Unless McCorkle has a change of mind from Teevens, it may be another decade or longer before the series resumes. Princeton's scheduled* through the decade, Dartmouth isn't; or at least hasn't announced anything. fbschedules.com/ncaa/dartmouth/However, you're probably right about the tradition being abandoned more or less permanently. *A home-and-home with Mercer, tournament qualifier in 2023, coming up the next two years. Home-and-home w/Monmouth, a game w/Bryant; the rest from Lehigh, Lafayette, Wagner, San Diego and Howard. All farther away than HC. |
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Post by hcpride on Feb 13, 2024 20:24:34 GMT -5
I agree regarding the long and storied rivalry with Dartmouth. It was fun while it lasted. However, Dartmouth decided to discontinue the series with HC. They rather play Pioneer and NEC teams instead of HC. Unless McCorkle has a change of mind from Teevens, it may be another decade or longer before the series resumes. Dartmouth is playing Fordham this year and next. (Along with the Pioneer and NEC matchups) |
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Post by timholycross on Feb 14, 2024 7:36:27 GMT -5
I agree regarding the long and storied rivalry with Dartmouth. It was fun while it lasted. However, Dartmouth decided to discontinue the series with HC. They rather play Pioneer and NEC teams instead of HC. Unless McCorkle has a change of mind from Teevens, it may be another decade or longer before the series resumes. Dartmouth is playing Fordham this year and next. (Along with the Pioneer and NEC matchups) 1 opening in 2025, 3 in 2026, 1 in 2027, 2 each in 2028 and 2029. |
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