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Post by sader1970 on Jan 25, 2017 12:06:27 GMT -5
Also in the latest Crusader Athletics Mag:
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 1, 2017 14:29:48 GMT -5
Just saw this and the quote struck me as a variation of Carmody's comments that are panned by some:
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 1, 2017 15:12:14 GMT -5
sader1970--- I love the way you reformat to stretch out the post to help those who are slow readers---very considerate
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 1, 2017 15:16:23 GMT -5
No, just makes the thread look longer and might fool some unsuspecting people into thinking there is a lot of interest. The reality, of course, is that when I cut and pasted, this is how it came out and I don't have the knowledge or time to figure out how to make it more "normal."
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Post by Tom on Feb 1, 2017 16:22:16 GMT -5
Just saw this and the quote struck me as a variation of Carmody's comments that are panned by some: Random reminder - prior to Brad Stevens, the Celtics most recent head coach hire who had zero NBA experience as a coach or player was Doggie Julian
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Post by JRGNYR on Feb 1, 2017 16:33:41 GMT -5
Random reminder - prior to Brad Stevens, the Celtics most recent head coach hire who had zero NBA experience as a coach or player was Doggie Julian ML Carr, who preceded Ricky, had zero. Not true. Carr was with the Pistons from 77-79 and the C's from 79-85.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 1, 2017 16:36:04 GMT -5
Yeah, my bad, deleted the post. Thought for a second Tom was referring to zero experience as a coach.
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Post by ncaam on Feb 4, 2017 8:08:13 GMT -5
2/3/2017 - Holy Cross 2017 SG Sasha Stefanovic (6-5, 190, 3★) committed to Purdue.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 4, 2017 10:18:22 GMT -5
2/3/2017 - Holy Cross 2017 SG Sasha Stefanovic (6-5, 190, 3★) committed to Purdue. This thread is about the College of the Holy Cross and Carm, not any high school named Holy Cross. Why don't you move this to the Purdue board in a thread about Matt Painter & recruiting.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 4, 2017 10:44:32 GMT -5
Would anyone actually criticize Milan Brown, Ralph Willard, George Blaney, Jack Donahue, Buster Sheary or Doggie #$@&^*!ing Julian if a kid from Indiana chose Purdue (whose basketball tradition goes back even further than HC's) over Holy Cross?
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Post by lou on Feb 4, 2017 10:56:34 GMT -5
2/3/2017 - Holy Cross 2017 SG Sasha Stefanovic (6-5, 190, 3★) committed to Purdue. Please explain...kid always wanted Purdue, just got an offer after a junior left the team, and 0.0 mention of HC
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 4, 2017 11:00:06 GMT -5
The one thing all those former Holy Cross coaches had in common was poor recruiters starting with Donahue who couldn't get Lew Alcindor to Mt. St. James despite the standing ovation he got from the student body in Kimball and Jack even being his high school coach! Heck, if that kid went to Holy Cross, he might have stayed Catholic and kept his "real" name. Maybe even become a priest after his NBA career? Problem with Jack was he never could tell a winning story.
And I will bet Sean Kearney could have gotten that kid to "our" Holy Cross with his Notre Dame roots.
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Post by jkh67 on Feb 4, 2017 11:58:37 GMT -5
The one thing all those former Holy Cross coaches had in common was poor recruiters starting with Donahue who couldn't get Lew Alcindor to Mt. St. James despite the standing ovation he got from the student body in Kimball and Jack even being his high school coach! Heck, if that kid went to Holy Cross, he might have stayed Catholic and kept his "real" name. Maybe even become a priest after his NBA career? Problem with Jack was he never could tell a winning story. And I will bet Sean Kearney could have gotten that kid to "our" Holy Cross with his Notre Dame roots. I was one of the cheering throng in Kimball when Lew Alcindor and Ron Texieira (sp?) came into the dining hall for dinner one winter's evening. I don't doubt but that a serving of mystery meat and the 1 1/2 glass milk limit were enough to have the kid looking to get out of town as quickly as possible. I remember hearing that it was Joe Lapchick of St. John's who recommended Donahue as successor to Offtring. Unfortunately, there was never a chance that Alcindor would follow his Power Memorial coach to Worcester and we got stuck with Donahue. How big Lew could have passed up the opportunity to play in the War Memorial Auditorium I've never been able to understand.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 4, 2017 12:00:29 GMT -5
This thread inspired me to take a closer look at how Coach Carmody has fared with teams made up solely of his recruits, which occurred at Northwestern in 9 seasons between 2004-2013. Overall record during that stretch was 139-145 for a winning percentage of (.489). Not good, but I thought it was important to take some other cuts at the data to dig a little deeper. In BIG10 play during that time, the total record was 49-107 (.314), without any seasons at or above .500 (closest was a couple 8-10 seasons). The average finish in the league over those 9 years was 8.8, with a high finish of 7th place on two different occasions. If Northwestern performed so poorly, how did they manage to get their overall winning percentage up to .489, you ask? Well, I figured that the OOC slate would be a good place to look! During those 9 season, Northwestern was 90-38 (.703). Hey, that's halfway decent! But, I know what you're thinking: what was the competition like on those OOC slates? Well, I've been told that KenPom Non-Conference SOS is the source of truth for OOC schedule rankings: - AVG KenPom SOS during those 9 seasons: 213.7-The toughest schedule was ranked 140th, and there were only 3 of those 9 seasons where the schedule was ranked above 197
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 4, 2017 12:01:35 GMT -5
I was there as well...having seen the duo touring the halls at Fenwick. My jaw dropped and my hopes soared.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 4, 2017 12:20:35 GMT -5
2/3/2017 - Holy Cross 2017 SG Sasha Stefanovic (6-5, 190, 3★) committed to Purdue. Please explain...kid always wanted Purdue, just got an offer after a junior left the team, and 0.0 mention of HC Exactly. I saw something where it said he had offers from 24 schools, whether HC was or wasn't one of them (list of schools was rather unclear), his chances of going to HC were probably less than the 0.0 you cited
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Post by ncaam on Feb 4, 2017 12:42:13 GMT -5
What I posted about Sasha was for information only. I make no judgments. He was a kid we offered. That's all.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 4, 2017 12:58:44 GMT -5
This thread inspired me to take a closer look at how Coach Carmody has fared with teams made up solely of his recruits, which occurred at Northwestern in 9 seasons between 2004-2013. Overall record during that stretch was 139-145 for a winning percentage of (.489). Not good, but I thought it was important to take some other cuts at the data to dig a little deeper. In BIG10 play during that time, the total record was 49-107 (.314), without any seasons at or above .500 (closest was a couple 8-10 seasons). The average finish in the league over those 9 years was 8.8, with a high finish of 7th place on two different occasions. If Northwestern performed so poorly, how did they manage to get their overall winning percentage up to .489, you ask? Well, I figured that the OOC slate would be a good place to look! During those 9 season, Northwestern was 90-38 (.703). Hey, that's halfway decent! But, I know what you're thinking: what was the competition like on those OOC slates? Well, I've been told that KenPom Non-Conference SOS is the source of truth for OOC schedule rankings: - AVG KenPom SOS during those 9 seasons: 213.7-The toughest schedule was ranked 140th, and there were only 3 of those 9 seasons where the schedule was ranked above 197 We have been over this again and again but perhaps you missed those threads. Le me boil in down for you: in his years at Northwestern Coach Carmody's teams had a much better record in Big 10 play than did the teams of his predecessors. That's the classic "apple to apples" comparison that proves that he improved the program significantly. So, just take the OOC schedule out of the analysis--the fact that his teams did well in OOC play does not prove that he was a bad coach
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Post by ncaam on Feb 4, 2017 13:18:44 GMT -5
Great coach, sub par recruiter. We are living with it. So hoping I'm wrong and next year has some immediate producers unlike this year's washout.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 4, 2017 13:58:30 GMT -5
This thread inspired me to take a closer look at how Coach Carmody has fared with teams made up solely of his recruits, which occurred at Northwestern in 9 seasons between 2004-2013. Overall record during that stretch was 139-145 for a winning percentage of (.489). Not good, but I thought it was important to take some other cuts at the data to dig a little deeper. In BIG10 play during that time, the total record was 49-107 (.314), without any seasons at or above .500 (closest was a couple 8-10 seasons). The average finish in the league over those 9 years was 8.8, with a high finish of 7th place on two different occasions. If Northwestern performed so poorly, how did they manage to get their overall winning percentage up to .489, you ask? Well, I figured that the OOC slate would be a good place to look! During those 9 season, Northwestern was 90-38 (.703). Hey, that's halfway decent! But, I know what you're thinking: what was the competition like on those OOC slates? Well, I've been told that KenPom Non-Conference SOS is the source of truth for OOC schedule rankings: - AVG KenPom SOS during those 9 seasons: 213.7-The toughest schedule was ranked 140th, and there were only 3 of those 9 seasons where the schedule was ranked above 197 We have been over this again and again but perhaps you missed those threads. Le me boil in down for you: in his years at Northwestern Coach Carmody's teams had a much better record in Big 10 play than did the teams of his predecessors. That's the classic "apple to apples" comparison that proves that he improved the program significantly. So, just take the OOC schedule out of the analysis--the fact that his teams did well in OOC play does not prove that he was a bad coach 1) So your benchmark is the lousy coaches who were at Northwestern before him? And what exactly does it prove if he won more games than this benchmark? Sounds like a similar benchmark to using DR as the benchmark for an AD. 2A) A .703 winning percentage for a BIG10 team against an OOC schedule that weak is not exactly a great achievement. 2B) There were two years in which NW was 13-2 and against OOC schedules ranked 292 and 309 (both years followed up with 7-11 records in the BIG10), and if you remove those two outliers against the weakest schedules, the winning percentage drops to .660. 3A) The argument has never been that he is a bad coach, but rather that everything other than two years (19 and 20 years ago) with Pete Carrill's players and using the exact same system that Pere Carrill taught to those players, the resume is extremely average. 3B) There was a pretty noticeable drop after Carmody's first two years and having Carill's players and system already installed to Sophs-Seniors in Year 1 and Juniors-Seniors in Year 2 (who accounted for 100% of the scoring and ~95% of the minutes played in the NCAA win over UNLV), as they went from 24-4 and 27-2, to 22-8, to 19-11 in Carmody's final year, with that slide continuing under JTIII with 16-11 and 16-12 records in the next two years.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 4, 2017 13:59:30 GMT -5
Great coach, sub par recruiter. We are living with it. So hoping I'm wrong and next year has some immediate producers unlike this year's washout. I also hope you are wrong, so we are together on that. I also feel it is far too early to call this season's recruits a washout. For one, Clayton LeSann will be a contributor next year and who know which other may develop. I seem to remember players who did just that under RW. We can also, IMO, see a big improvement in KC after what has been a bit of a sophomore slump.
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Post by beaven302 on Feb 4, 2017 14:19:03 GMT -5
I was there as well...having seen the duo touring the halls at Fenwick. My jaw dropped and my hopes soared. I remember it well, I also recall the misleading headline that appeared in the Worcester Telegram: "Alcindor to Join Teixeira at HC," which had people dreaming of the Final Four. Not only did Alcindor not come to HC, but a few years later Teixeira left the team.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 4, 2017 14:20:52 GMT -5
I was there as well...having seen the duo touring the halls at Fenwick. My jaw dropped and my hopes soared. I remember it well, I also recall the misleading headline that appeared in the Worcester Telegram: "Alcindor to Join Teixeira at HC," which had people dreaming of the Final Four. Not only did the Alcindor not come to HC, but a few years later Teixeira left the team. I remember that as well. He left just before HC played UCLA in Ron's sophomore year. I was never sure what happened, but he could have helped a good team (and big Ed Siudet) to be even better if he had stayed.
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Post by beaven302 on Feb 4, 2017 14:25:12 GMT -5
We have been over this again and again but perhaps you missed those threads. Le me boil in down for you: in his years at Northwestern Coach Carmody's teams had a much better record in Big 10 play than did the teams of his predecessors. That's the classic "apple to apples" comparison that proves that he improved the program significantly. So, just take the OOC schedule out of the analysis--the fact that his teams did well in OOC play does not prove that he was a bad coach 1) So your benchmark is the lousy coaches who were at Northwestern before him? And what exactly does it prove if he won more games than this benchmark? Sounds like a similar benchmark to using DR as the benchmark for an AD. 2A) A .703 winning percentage for a BIG10 team against an OOC schedule that weak is not exactly a great achievement. 2B) There were two years in which NW was 13-2 and against OOC schedules ranked 292 and 309 (both years followed up with 7-11 records in the BIG10), and if you remove those two outliers against the weakest schedules, the winning percentage drops to .660. 3A) The argument has never been that he is a bad coach, but rather that everything other than two years (19 and 20 years ago) with Pete Carrill's players and using the exact same system that Pere Carrill taught to those players, the resume is extremely average. 3B) There was a pretty noticeable drop after Carmody's first two years and having Carill's players and system already installed to Sophs-Seniors in Year 1 and Juniors-Seniors in Year 2 (who accounted for 100% of the scoring and ~95% of the minutes played in the NCAA win over UNLV), as they went from 24-4 and 27-2, to 22-8, to 19-11 in Carmody's final year, with that slide continuing under JTIII with 16-11 and 16-12 records in the next two years. Parsing the numbers for Carmody's tenure at Northwestern doesn't tell the real story. The main point is that before Carmody arrived the NU program was a the doormat of the Big Ten. In effect, Carmody was being asked to animate a corpse, a task that wasn't easy because NU had arguably the worst facilities in the Big Ten, zero basketball tradition, and actually had admissions standards. Carmody recruited better players and raised the program to respectability. Collins has now taken a respectable program to the next level, the results of this week's game at Purdue notwithstanding.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Feb 4, 2017 14:42:52 GMT -5
Purdue (19-5) beat Maryland (20-3) this afternoon in College Park.
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