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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 7, 2017 21:52:06 GMT -5
Just for perspective, while the 2001-2002 and 2003-2004 AU Eagles may have been a very talented team, capable of the big wins and close losses NJJ cites, they also had some puzzling losses 2001-2002 AU lost to #224 Howard, #201 Wagner, and twice to #238 Lafayette 2003-2004 AU lost to #225 Fairleigh Divkinson, #252 Elon, #269 St Francis, #218 Lafayette, #205 Bucknell, and twice to #241 Lehigh On this board, many subscribe to the belief that "you are what your record says you are"....... Thanks, Ky how about their '02-03 team ? 2002-2003 AU team was 16-14 . Best wins were over #66 HC and #110 Geo Washington. AU lost to #248 UNC greensboro, #257 st Francis, #222Bucknell, #223 lehigh, #247 Lafayette , #235 colgate.
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Post by bison137 on Mar 7, 2017 22:13:26 GMT -5
Thanks, Ky how about their '02-03 team ? 2002-2003 AU team was 16-14 . Best wins were over #66 HC and #110 Geo Washington. AU lost to #248 UNC greensboro, #257 st Francis, #222Bucknell, #223 lehigh, #247 Lafayette , #235 colgate. Thans for the perspective. Pomeroy, while certainly not perfect, is much more accurate than the selective memories of fans. There is a reason AU over those three years had an average ranking of about #180.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 7, 2017 22:18:35 GMT -5
Just for the record, I used Pomeroy for this thread, not because I'm a slavish believer, but because it is so easy to look up each team's ranking for the year and that of each opponent--it's all on one page. I have to think Pomeroy's ranking cannot be very far off from Sagarin or the official RPI. Also there are no pop-ups on KenPom, it's very user friendly
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Post by notjuanjones on Mar 7, 2017 22:41:59 GMT -5
Just for perspective, while the 2001-2002 and 2003-2004 AU Eagles may have been a very talented team, capable of the big wins and close losses NJJ cites, they also had some puzzling losses 2001-2002 AU lost to #224 Howard, #201 Wagner, and twice to #238 Lafayette 2003-2004 AU lost to #225 Fairleigh Divkinson, #252 Elon, #269 St Francis, #218 Lafayette, #205 Bucknell, and twice to #241 Lehigh On this board, many subscribe to the belief that "you are what your record says you are"....... Yes, unbelievably, in those years, AU had some bad OOC losses and didn't go undefeated in conference play. They thus weren't very good. I give up. Y'all enjoy the rest of the season. I'm not going to keep arguing with people who think a computer is the only judge of a team's worth. If any of you want to talk about basketball, please feel free to join us on the AU board anytime.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 7, 2017 23:37:01 GMT -5
Notjuan--I think you are being unreasonable here. No one is saying AU was no good. Many posters just think those fine AU teams were not as good as the best HC or Bucknell teams.
Aren't your polemics a bit silly? "They thus weren't very good" . Come on
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purple71
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 169
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Post by purple71 on Mar 8, 2017 6:27:23 GMT -5
CBSSN is 772 on Charter Spectrum. It's an add-on as part of a sports pkg. Not part of standard channel offerings. Thanks, I tired but the package is not on this TV.
How did the PL miss getting on one of the ESPN stations for its championship game?
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Post by hchoops on Mar 8, 2017 7:22:16 GMT -5
PL has a season long contract with CBSCS
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 8, 2017 8:07:01 GMT -5
Notjuan--I think you are being unreasonable here. No one is saying AU was no good. Many posters just think those fine AU teams were not as good as the best HC or Bucknell teams. Aren't your polemics a bit silly? "They thus weren't very good" . Come on "Selective memory? AU really wasn't as good as you're making them out to be. They'd be in the middle-of-the-pack in the PL in recent seasons."
"AU in that era was much weaker than this year's Bucknell team."The 02-03 AU team would be right there with Bucknell at the top of the PL right now. To lump them in the "middle-of-the-pack" with Navy, HC, Loyola is foolish. The logic to say that they are "'much weaker" than the current Bucknell team, despite proving that they were right there with an 02-03 HC team that was significantly better than the current Bucknell team is incredibly faulty.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 8, 2017 8:23:55 GMT -5
So you think it's best to evaluate a team based on just a few selected games when it played particularly well rather than on the whole season?
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Post by hc6774 on Mar 8, 2017 8:52:21 GMT -5
So you think it's best to evaluate a team based on just a few selected games when it played particularly well rather than on the whole season? Isn't that what we the HC fans et al did this season?
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Post by bison137 on Mar 8, 2017 8:54:25 GMT -5
So you think it's best to evaluate a team based on just a few selected games when it played particularly well rather than on the whole season? If you are ever able to find logic in one of his posts, it will be the first time. I doubt he even saw any of those teams play. Just another way to denigrate the current quality of the PL - which is clearly higher now - and thus denigrate the current HC team.
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Post by Tom on Mar 8, 2017 9:18:06 GMT -5
CBSSN is 772 on Charter Spectrum. It's an add-on as part of a sports pkg. Not part of standard channel offerings. Thanks, I tired but the package is not on this TV.
How did the PL miss getting on one of the ESPN stations for its championship game?
When the PL signed the deal with CBSSC to broadcast the regular season games, it included the championship. TPTB decided not having the championship on an ESPN network was worth the exposure of having regular season games televised. The PL walked away from ESPN not vice versa. I assume that ESPN would welcome the PL championship back as they used to advertise they had all the conference championships (ignoring the fact that the ACC and maybe another one will be on CBS). In the unlikely event anyone actually cares, I will not be watching the game tonight. I don't have that channel. If HC were playing on the road, I would find a local bar to watch it, but I'm not heading out to ask some bartender to put Bucknell/Lehigh on one of the TV's. If it were on EPSN2, I would probably watch at home, but without the channel, I'll probably bounce back and forth between whatever league is on ESPN and ESPN2. The Patriot League Poweres That Be don't particularly care about me.
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Post by rickii on Mar 8, 2017 9:23:47 GMT -5
Notjuan--I think you are being unreasonable here. No one is saying AU was no good. Many posters just think those fine AU teams were not as good as the best HC or Bucknell teams. Aren't your polemics a bit silly? "They thus weren't very good" . Come on What's a polemics ? Sounds like something found in Home Depot.
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 8, 2017 9:31:40 GMT -5
Thanks, I tired but the package is not on this TV.
How did the PL miss getting on one of the ESPN stations for its championship game?
When the PL signed the deal with CBSSC to broadcast the regular season games, it included the championship. TPTB decided not having the championship on an ESPN network was worth the exposure of having regular season games televised. The PL walked away from ESPN not vice versa. I assume that ESPN would welcome the PL championship back as they used to advertise they had all the conference championships (ignoring the fact that the ACC and maybe another one will be on CBS). In the unlikely event anyone actually cares, I will not be watching the game tonight. I don't have that channel. If HC were playing on the road, I would find a local bar to watch it, but I'm not heading out to ask some bartender to put Bucknell/Lehigh on one of the TV's. If it were on EPSN2, I would probably watch at home, but without the channel, I'll probably bounce back and forth between whatever league is on ESPN and ESPN2. The Patriot League Poweres That Be don't particularly care about me. I thought I remember seeing something that CBS was paying the PL for the broadcast package - or at least not asking the PL to pay for the air time. Anyone know if that's correct or am I mis-remembering?
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Post by notjuanjones on Mar 8, 2017 9:57:05 GMT -5
Notjuan--I think you are being unreasonable here. No one is saying AU was no good. Many posters just think those fine AU teams were not as good as the best HC or Bucknell teams. Aren't your polemics a bit silly? "They thus weren't very good" . Come on It is interesting and instructive that, in responding to extensive dismissal of the accomplishments of a team over a multi-season period, I am the one accused of engaging in "polemics." Pot, meet kettle. I will say this one last time--for, believe me, I'm not going to spend another second of my life debating this afterward. Numbers are one tool to evaluate performance. In some cases, they have great value. The current wave of three point shooting in the NBA and in college basketball makes sense, for example, because of the easily understood fact that 3>2. I get that. But numbers without context are worthless. I only responded to this in the first place because there are, and continue to be, people who, for some reason, felt compelled to immediately attack and dismiss a simple idea forwarded by one of the posters--that the early PL AU teams of Jeff Jones were formidable competitors to HC AT THAT TIME (emphasis mine). Now, this doesn't seem to rise to the level of something worth debating, as AU did, indeed, make three straight PL title games from 2002-2004. Yet, almost immediately, came the Amen Chorus of dismissal--"not all that good," "played a weak OOC schedule," etc. And then, of course, KenPom. (By the way: I like Pomeroy. Read him often. He is not the issue. The use of his stats, with no historical context whatsoever attached, is.) Historians know this. That is why they rely on BOTH original materials and/or documents--i.e., "numbers"--AND eyewitness accounts and/or memories in the form of interviews, letters and other correspondence.) I just thought the reaction to a simple opinion was a bit oversized. No one has addressed the point I made at the start of this: you cannot simply compare eras in anything without adjusting or addressing the sometimes substantial differences of those eras. How can you say one team or era was "better" than another when the rules of those eras were completely different? When, in this case, the game was officiated completely differently? And on and on. (And, one last time: schools like UCLA and Kentucky, which have enjoyed, shall we say, some elasticity when it comes to the rules over the years, have to be judged historically with said advantages in mind.) Numbers can tell a rich, compelling story. So do grandparents. Using one without the other often gives you exactly half a picture.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 8, 2017 10:04:54 GMT -5
"Numbers can tell a rich, compelling story. So do grandparents. Using one without the other often gives you exactly half a picture." Nice point made!
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Post by Tom on Mar 8, 2017 11:04:17 GMT -5
When the PL signed the deal with CBSSC to broadcast the regular season games, it included the championship. TPTB decided not having the championship on an ESPN network was worth the exposure of having regular season games televised. The PL walked away from ESPN not vice versa. I assume that ESPN would welcome the PL championship back as they used to advertise they had all the conference championships (ignoring the fact that the ACC and maybe another one will be on CBS). In the unlikely event anyone actually cares, I will not be watching the game tonight. I don't have that channel. If HC were playing on the road, I would find a local bar to watch it, but I'm not heading out to ask some bartender to put Bucknell/Lehigh on one of the TV's. If it were on EPSN2, I would probably watch at home, but without the channel, I'll probably bounce back and forth between whatever league is on ESPN and ESPN2. The Patriot League Poweres That Be don't particularly care about me. I thought I remember seeing something that CBS was paying the PL for the broadcast package - or at least not asking the PL to pay for the air time. Anyone know if that's correct or am I mis-remembering? I believe that is correct. If the PL was paying for the air time, making the games basically an infomercial, CBS probably would not have been in as strong a bargaining position to get the championship game as part of the package
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Post by ncaam on Mar 8, 2017 11:42:30 GMT -5
Summit final....up and down action....10000 fannies in the seats....espn2
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Post by res on Mar 8, 2017 12:15:32 GMT -5
ESPN also gave us a late-Friday afternoon start. IIRC, it was 6:00 PM, but it might have been even earlier, I forget. We always followed an earlier game which more often than not ran long. I have no problem with CBS Sports.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 8, 2017 12:22:33 GMT -5
ESPN also gave us a late-Friday afternoon start. IIRC, it was 6:00 PM, but it might have been even earlier, I forget. We always followed an earlier game which more often than not ran long. I have no problem with CBS Sports. 4:45 was the tip, AIR.
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Post by res on Mar 8, 2017 12:26:29 GMT -5
That's it, thanks.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 8, 2017 12:36:11 GMT -5
4:45 on a Friday. For my money it was the best time slot the league could have asked for. Happy hour...Easy for students if not on break. I think it was also squeezed in between 2 ACC quarterfinal games as well.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 8, 2017 12:39:14 GMT -5
ESPN also gave us a late-Friday afternoon start. IIRC, it was 6:00 PM, but it might have been even earlier, I forget. We always followed an earlier game which more often than not ran long. I have no problem with CBS Sports. 4:45 was the tip, AIR. And it was 10x better than being in no-man's land on Wednesday night.
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Post by mulledy98 on Mar 8, 2017 13:39:11 GMT -5
I watched the NEC Championship game on ESPN2 last night. I apologize if someone else already discussed this somewhere else. It reinforced for me (and I know I might be the minority) that PL basketball is a MORE enjoyable product. Players were much quicker and more athletic, but the frenetic pace and impatience on offense was exhausting.
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Post by cmo on Mar 8, 2017 14:42:10 GMT -5
4:45 on a Friday. For my money it was the best time slot the league could have asked for. Happy hour...Easy for students if not on break. I think it was also squeezed in between 2 ACC quarterfinal games as well. Best slot. Our games sometimes started late, but worth it. If HC fans wanted to go to Bucknell, or vice versa, it was possible with only missing one day of work / school.
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