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Post by ncaam on Jun 11, 2017 14:04:19 GMT -5
That there are no money games this year is no surprise to me. I reported that earlier. All I'm saying is the coaches don't like them because we get blown out. They get embarrassed, the school gets embarrassed. All we get is a check. I believe Ralph Willard and the coaches that followed didn't like them. Will they be back? Of course. The ADs, Regan and Pine, love them. Pays some bills. Do the fans love them? Probably not. I attended @soucar and @syr this past season. There was zero fan support at the venues. The players love them when they are put on the schedule, but they don't look all that happy when playing.
Maybe some of us are speaking to the same coaches just at different times. Some people think it's a big deal to talk to a coach. It's not. They love to see people interested in what they do. There aren't all that many who are. The coaches are seldom candid, but scheduling info is no big deal.
Baseball opening @oklahoma. More scheduling to follow on the baseball site.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 11, 2017 15:09:16 GMT -5
I am not sure the ADs "love" pay games but recognize them as a necessary evil to help pay the bills - enormous bills really. A pay game against URI or PC, say, are probably not looked at in quite the same way as a Syracuse or South Carolina because in any given year the games not only would be competitive but possible wins. Recall RW beating PC and while URI is "up" now, they aren't always so. I assume that UConn football game is also a pay game. That would seem to be appropriate, especially early in the season before our players get beaten up at the end of the season.
Though not a "pay" game, Dick Regan positively hated the women playing UConn every year but he let it go because BG was such good friends with Geno and Bill claimed our girls loved the games to go against the best; were not disheartened by the crushing defeats; and better prepared the ladies for games against mere mortals. And, yes, Dick was not happy at all that it was not even a "pay" game.
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Post by lou on Jun 11, 2017 18:34:02 GMT -5
On Saturday, sounded like PC may be back on the schedule in the near future
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Post by bison137 on Jun 11, 2017 19:09:27 GMT -5
That there are no money games this year is no surprise to me. I reported that earlier. All I'm saying is the coaches don't like them because we get blown out. They get embarrassed, the school gets embarrassed. All we get is a check. Are you talking just about this year or about money games in general? PL teams have had a number of good wins in money games against power conferences and also a number of close games. The players I have talked to love having a few of these games on the schedule each year - even the ones they lose. If you win one or two during a player's four years, it is a net win for the player.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 11, 2017 19:43:07 GMT -5
If it's true that we are playing FDU, why not at the Hart instead of NJ? Looks like another poor home OOC schedule. This one would be in my backyard and I will be there with bells on. FDU is improving as a program and still has a bit of a chip on the shoulder after being turned down for PL membership after a strong appeal. They really wanted to be part of the PL and their location could bring HC alums to such a game from the NY/NJ area. At least it could be something for us in NJ to get to other than NJIT.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jun 12, 2017 9:10:32 GMT -5
If it's true that we are playing FDU, why not at the Hart instead of NJ? Looks like another poor home OOC schedule. FDU is improving as a program and still has a bit of a chip on the shoulder after being turned down for PL membership after a strong appeal. They really wanted to be part of the PL and their location could bring HC alums to such a game from the NY/NJ area. At least it could be something for us in NJ to get to other than NJIT. This will sound snobby but I do not intend it that way at all. PL announced expansion with BU & Loyola 5 years ago. I presume that is when FDU was inquiring about membership and if FDU has a chip on its shoulder for being turned down for PL membership 5 years ago ... - That's a long time to be carrying the chip especially since FDU is on their second president since the "snub" and I assume the hurt isn't passed down from president to president with the mace.
- FDU has a lofty opinion of itself. Some were queasy with the size of BU and the academics of Loyola when added . With 9,000+ undergraduates and 3000+ grad students, FDU would easily be the second largest school behind BU. And with a US News Regional Universities North ranking of 67 (Loyola is #3 in the same category) they be lagging severely academically.
Bottom line, I understand why they would want to join, but they are not a great fit for the PL and they should not feel bad about not being asked to join at any time - and especially if it was 5 years ago.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 12, 2017 9:42:35 GMT -5
FDU clearly wanted to up its game with PL membership. They were not a good fit (and I said so at the time - just before the membership of BU and Loyola). It is not any president who has that chip (and if I somehow implied that, I was wrong to do so). It is the people in the sports programs who do. They want to schedule PL schools, and try to do so as often as possible. FDU would not be the first school to improve ranking with PL membership. Just look how AU has come up in their academic ranking in a relatively short period since joining the PL. The attitude toward PL schools (not only to HC) is that we "look down" on them and their teams. Hence, there is still a "chip.' For such a large school, they do not have a strong following in most sports, but that has changed in hoops with Coach Herenda's efforts. They now have a growing fan base. Based on their last two seasons, they will be able to give HC a close game, but I hope we do no lose to them. That could be a major program setback for the Cross.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 12, 2017 9:43:31 GMT -5
While I don't see FDU in the PL, and also don't want to sound snobby, but Boston University also is not a good fit except geographically with Holy Cross. It is hardly a small school.
Showing my own bias, I would rather have seen Fairfield. A smaller university; Jesuit; relatively close to HC but admittedly a level down academically though no slouch.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 12, 2017 9:48:08 GMT -5
While I don't see FDU in the PL, and also don't want to sound snobby, but Boston University also is not a good fit except geographically with Holy Cross. It is hardly a small school. Showing my own bias, I would rather have seen Fairfield. A smaller university; Jesuit; relatively close to HC but admittedly a level down academically though no slouch. I would have to agree with that. The Stags would have been (and could still be) a good fit. My son went to his 25th Reunion at Fairfield this past weekend. He said there is building going on all over campus. With the building at BC, perhaps it is a Jesuit thing right now.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 12, 2017 10:47:48 GMT -5
That could be a major program setback for the Cross. Losing on the road to a low-major during the non-conference isn't going to set the program back. Also, I don't recall FDU seeking PL membership, but could be wrong.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 12, 2017 11:03:14 GMT -5
That could be a major program setback for the Cross. Losing on the road to a low-major during the non-conference isn't going to set the program back. Especially with an HC team that will probably be dependent on freshmen
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Post by bison137 on Jun 12, 2017 11:07:12 GMT -5
While I don't see FDU in the PL, and also don't want to sound snobby, but Boston University also is not a good fit except geographically with Holy Cross. It is hardly a small school. Showing my own bias, I would rather have seen Fairfield. A smaller university; Jesuit; relatively close to HC but admittedly a level down academically though no slouch. Agree 100%.
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Post by bison137 on Jun 12, 2017 11:09:08 GMT -5
FDU is improving as a program and still has a bit of a chip on the shoulder after being turned down for PL membership after a strong appeal. They really wanted to be part of the PL and their location could bring HC alums to such a game from the NY/NJ area. At least it could be something for us in NJ to get to other than NJIT. This will sound snobby but I do not intend it that way at all. PL announced expansion with BU & Loyola 5 years ago. I presume that is when FDU was inquiring about membership and if FDU has a chip on its shoulder for being turned down for PL membership 5 years ago ... - That's a long time to be carrying the chip especially since FDU is on their second president since the "snub" and I assume the hurt isn't passed down from president to president with the mace.
- FDU has a lofty opinion of itself. Some were queasy with the size of BU and the academics of Loyola when added . With 9,000+ undergraduates and 3000+ grad students, FDU would easily be the second largest school behind BU. And with a US News Regional Universities North ranking of 67 (Loyola is #3 in the same category) they be lagging severely academically.
Bottom line, I understand why they would want to join, but they are not a great fit for the PL and they should not feel bad about not being asked to join at any time - and especially if it was 5 years ago.
Yes, FDU wouldn't be a fit at all, and I am surprised if they thought there was even a slim chance of admittance. Most of their recruits wouldn't fit under the PL academic index floor - which would have crippled their teams.
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Post by lou on Jun 12, 2017 11:24:37 GMT -5
I have worked with many very talented engineers who got Masters degrees from FDU after coming to the US from Chenail and Mumbai
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 12, 2017 12:15:04 GMT -5
As I recall the expansion conversation 5+ years ago, Boston U. was added so that HC had a nearby institution that HC could pair with, and Loyola was added primarily to bring membership to even number, and secondarily, to pair with AU. And in the course of affiliating, BostonU had to abides by same certain academic limits, and Loyola's hoops coach quit because he did not want to recruit under the AI.
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Post by bison137 on Jun 12, 2017 13:09:16 GMT -5
As I recall the expansion conversation 5+ years ago, Boston U. was added so that HC had a nearby institution that HC could pair with, and Loyola was added primarily to bring membership to even number, and secondarily, to pair with AU. And in the course of affiliating, BostonU had to abides by same certain academic limits, and Loyola's hoops coach quit because he did not want to recruit under the AI. American already had Navy to pair with. Loyola was brought in mostly due to its great lacrosse program - the sport where the PL is the strongest. They have had some issues with the AI since a number of the athletes they had on the roster four years ago would not have been eligible under the AI. That is the sole reason Patsos quit. He recruited a lot of players who wouldn't have qualified. Boston U also had some players on the roster who would not have been eligible under PL rules. However their academic standards are better than those of Loyola, so it hasn't been a huge deal. One by-product is that Boston had some basketball players five years ago who were in their alternative college - Metropolitan U. That is no longer the case. I would have preferred Fairfield and Marist to Boston and Loyola.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 12, 2017 14:06:03 GMT -5
That could be a major program setback for the Cross. Losing on the road to a low-major during the non-conference isn't going to set the program back. Also, I don't recall FDU seeking PL membership, but could be wrong. 1. FDU did, in fact, made an application but they did not really fit the PL profile in any way. 2. Losing to a low major program not known as having a strong team certainly would not help HC. A los to FDU is not anywhere close to a loss to a Syracuse or other hoop power.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 12, 2017 14:09:11 GMT -5
I have worked with many very talented engineers who got Masters degrees from FDU after coming to the US from Chenail and Mumbai With two degrees from FDU (MA and EdD) and having taught some graduate classes there, I am well aware of their standards. FDU does have some talented grads, but overall it is still viewed in north Jersey as a commuter school and is referred to with a number of derogatory nicknames.
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Post by jkh67 on Jun 12, 2017 16:52:53 GMT -5
While I don't see FDU in the PL, and also don't want to sound snobby, but Boston University also is not a good fit except geographically with Holy Cross. It is hardly a small school. Showing my own bias, I would rather have seen Fairfield. A smaller university; Jesuit; relatively close to HC but admittedly a level down academically though no slouch. My sense based on random conversations I've had over the years with North East college sports enthusiasts of various stripes is that the PL is seen as academically superior and a league that plays by the rules. Not the Ivy League for sure. But heads and shoulders above other regional 1AA sports conferences on the educational side. That's valuable stuff for any school. So, for me, the key metric for admission to the league should be the academic one, coupled with a reasonable track record playing 1AA level sports and some correlation of size with other members.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 13, 2017 6:31:01 GMT -5
It was interesting to learn from one HC official that Division 3 NESCAC (sometimes promoted on here as a desired destination for HC sports) would, in his opinion, never consider HC as a member. He felt that Williams and Amherst would to want HC to challenge their sports dominance in NESCAC and that the anti-Catholicbias in some of the NESCAC institutions would never allow HC to join.
A separate point that surprised me was that Williams and Amherst have a higher percentage of recruited athletes in their student bodies than HC. They do to give sports scholarships, but do recruit. I had not known that, or that HC has one of the highest percentage of student athletes in all of Division 1.
I asked privately about the homes purchased homes adjoining the campus, I was told that there are no immediate plans for the use of that land. It was seen as "money in the bank" for possible future use. One such use might be for a large dorm that would facilitate an increase in the number of students at HC. The site of the former HoJo's at the base of the hill is seen as a site for a multi-level garage to increase parking. (The Performing Arts Center will take away 120 parking spots.) As a short term solution, the grass in from of the LAC would be paved over with terraced and landscaped) parking. The laws would come back after the new garage is completed.
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Post by Ray on Jun 13, 2017 13:20:03 GMT -5
It was interesting to learn from one HC official that Division 3 NESCAC (sometimes promoted on here as a desired destination for HC sports) would, in his opinion, never consider HC as a member. True or not, that's a consistent HC position. I remember someone (Vellaccio?) state the same thing, just about verbatim, about HC going to NESCAC back in the mid-90s. They like what they have there and wouldn't upset their apple cart to make room for us, for all of reasons mentioned.
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Post by purplehaze on Jun 13, 2017 15:17:30 GMT -5
... and lingering anti-catholic bias still present ? what do you think ?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 13, 2017 16:30:44 GMT -5
For HC, 26.1 percent of students participate in a varsity sport. (ADNP does not include students studying abroad, Washington, New York in his calculation.). Wofford 22.1 percent. Davidson 24.4%. HC's participation percentage may now be the highest in Division I. (Don't have values for the service academies; I IRC, Navy rostered 160 for football.) Bowdoin 35.9 percent. Williams 36 percent. ____________________________________ The amphitheater lawn to the north of Luth is supposed to be planted with thousands of purple flowering spring bulbs. I guess we'll see. My druthers would be to put a parking garage at the top of the hill where it can be used by those attending a game at the Hart or a performance at the PAC. A parking garage at the bottom of the hill for students, and maybe summer baseball and fall football? ?
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Post by lou on Jun 13, 2017 16:42:18 GMT -5
It was interesting to learn from one HC official that Division 3 NESCAC (sometimes promoted on here as a desired destination for HC sports) would, in his opinion, never consider HC as a member. True or not, that's a consistent HC position. I remember someone (Vellaccio?) state the same thing, just about verbatim, about HC going to NESCAC back in the mid-90s. They like what they have there and wouldn't upset their apple cart to make room for us, for all of reasons mentioned. Same source this weekend, Frank Vs presentation
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Post by sarasota on Jun 13, 2017 18:51:02 GMT -5
Since Frank V has been the eminence grise behind the HC sports program for decades, he has to accept responsibility for many of the awful decisions that have been made.
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