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Post by hchoops on Jul 21, 2017 10:12:28 GMT -5
To continue from last week on HC's best guards
This week the best front court tandems we have witnessed
of course, the best would be Heinsohn-Palazzi, then Kaftan-Oftring, Heinsohn- Liebler, Palazzi-Kielley
but post 1960:
1-Potter-Vicens(4 years)
1a-Siudut-K. Hochstein
3-Doyle-Schnurr
4-J. Foley-B. Foley
5-Feaster-Mashburn
6-Siudut-Kissane
7-Szatko-Whearty
8-Sankes-Szatko
9-Simmons-Clifford
any thoughts ?
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Post by ncaam on Jul 21, 2017 10:17:31 GMT -5
DD MM
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 21, 2017 11:40:07 GMT -5
I'd go with Siudut-Hochstein with Potter-Vincens close behind
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Post by hc87 on Jul 21, 2017 11:49:05 GMT -5
Not old enough to remember Siudut-Hochstein...I would go with Vicens-Potter....elevated HC into a near or Top 20 program during their run. Last time/era we were really a major program on a national scale.
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Post by sarasota on Jul 21, 2017 19:09:46 GMT -5
Siudut guarded Kareem in MSG didn't he? Hochstein and Szatko were both beasts. I'd take any of those tandems today.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 21, 2017 19:30:59 GMT -5
Ed guarded Kareem, so did Keith.
Tim S. was a fine player, esp for a PL team.
Keith was a 6'4" Center who was one of the country's leaders in rebounds his soph year.and could score against tough competition
No real comparison
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 21, 2017 20:26:24 GMT -5
I had the pleasure of seeing dozens of Doyle-Schnurr and Potter-Vicens games: great, great front court tandems there.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 21, 2017 20:33:25 GMT -5
I had the pleasure of seeing dozens of Doyle-Schnurr and Potter-Vicens games: great, great front court tandems there. Added trivia what do 3 of those 4 players have in common ? |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 21, 2017 21:14:42 GMT -5
I had the pleasure of seeing dozens of Doyle-Schnurr and Potter-Vicens games: great, great front court tandems there. Added trivia what do 3 of those 4 players have in common ? Metro NY HS basketball stars??? |
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Post by hchoops on Jul 21, 2017 21:29:57 GMT -5
Correct
NYC CHSAA stars
Schnurr-St. Francis Prep
Doyle-Cardinal Hayes
Potter-Cardinal Spellman
All recruited by Dick Maloney, as were many other Crusaders from the metro area
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Post by sarasota on Jul 21, 2017 22:39:06 GMT -5
Our bball roots are definitely in the tri-state area. That's one of the reasons I like the MAAC for HC bball.
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Post by possum on Jul 21, 2017 22:42:53 GMT -5
Saw all except Heinsohn/Palazzi, Potter/Vicens hands down the best, as freshmen they were mainly responsible for turning an 8-20 team into a 20-8 team and helped put us back on national stage. Both were clutch players and tough as nails in different ways.
The Siudut led teams never lived up to their hype and didn't reach post season play despite some gaudy personal stats.
Same with Doyle/Schnurr a lot of points/rebounds but not many meaningful wins.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 21, 2017 23:00:55 GMT -5
That is why I put Potter-Vicens first. But the other pairings were also very good.
Imo those teams that did not do as well as P-V did not have the backcourts or the coaching that the Potter-Vicens teams had.
The Siudut-Hochstein pairing was especially strong, not just stat wise, but got little help from the backcourt.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 22, 2017 7:07:35 GMT -5
That is why I put Potter-Vicens first. But the other pairings were also very good. Imo those teams that did not do as well as P-V did not have the backcourts or the coaching that the Potter-Vicens teams had. The Siudut-Hochstein pairing was especially strong, not just stat wise, but got little help from the backcourt. Sadly that was the case IMHO. |
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Post by possum on Jul 22, 2017 9:50:22 GMT -5
Hoops probably right about coaching not so sure about backcourt play, prior to RP Jr arrival Potter/ Vicens had no high powered back courts Carbaliera/McAuley 1st year and McAuley/ Kane Beckenbach 2nd year, Siudut's teams were led by Stazinski in backcourt 1st 2 years and Jack Adams 3rd year. Losing Teixiera obviously setback the Siudut years. I remember how excited everyone was anticipating Suidut Hochstein and Tex playing together but for some reason it just didn't work. If I remember correctly the Siudut/ Tex class was rated the 2nd best recruiting class in the country behind only Alcindor at UCLA.
It seemed like all the Siudut teams were the same needing a key victory or two coming down the stretch to gain a post season berth and unfortunately it never happened. I remember the Auditorium crowd taunting Donahue about the NIT call that never came after losing games down the stretch that could have put them in.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 22, 2017 9:54:27 GMT -5
I remember things the same way. possum.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 22, 2017 10:05:37 GMT -5
Hoops probably right about coaching not so sure about backcourt play, prior to RP Jr arrival Potter/ Vicens had no high powered back courts Carbaliera/McAuley 1st year and McAuley/ Kane Beckenbach 2nd year, Siudut's teams were led by Stazinski in backcourt 1st 2 years and Jack Adams 3rd year. Losing Teixiera obviously setback the Siudut years. I remember how excited everyone was anticipating Suidut Hochstein and Tex playing together but for some reason it just didn't work. If I remember correctly the Siudut/ Tex class was rated the 2nd best recruiting class in the country behind only Alcindor at UCLA. It seemed like all the Siudut teams were the same needing a key victory or two coming down the stretch to gain a post season berth and unfortunately it never happened. I remember the Auditorium crowd taunting Donahue about the NIT call that never came after losing games down the stretch that could have put them in. Carballeira-McAuley were far better than Stazinski-Murray, neither of wham was a true point. Adams did not play with Hochstein, so his role is irrelevant in this discussion of forward pairs. Keith H. played only 15 games his junior year because of injury. A healthy Keith could have meant an NIT bid. McAuley led the team in assists for 2 years even though Potter led in his junior and senior years. And you left out that Potter-Vicens played two years with Perry, pretty high powered. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 22, 2017 10:16:51 GMT -5
I remember the joke freshman year: The team is going to the NIT--Jack bought them tickets.....
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Post by possum on Jul 22, 2017 11:28:40 GMT -5
Hoops I did note that Potter/Vicens played with RP Jr last two years. I'll defer to you on Stazinski/Murray not being point guards as I can't recall that facet of their games, but they did combine to put up 20 points and ten rebounds per game and I assume one of them led the team in assists. Stazinski as I recall was also an excellent defender. Carb/McAuley was also the backcourt on an 8-18 team.
You may be right that the team in Hochsteins junior season may have gotten an NIT bid if he hadn't been hurt but if I recall correctly Teixeira played much better when he returned to his natural position after Hochstein was injured.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 22, 2017 12:12:30 GMT -5
Hoops I did note that Potter/Vicens played with RP Jr last two years. I'll defer to you on Stazinski/Murray not being point guards as I can't recall that facet of their games, but they did combine to put up 20 points and ten rebounds per game and I assume one of them led the team in assists. Stazinski as I recall was also an excellent defender. Carb/McAuley was also the backcourt on an 8-18 team. You may be right that the team in Hochsteins junior season may have gotten an NIT bid if he hadn't been hurt but if I recall correctly Teixeira played much better when he returned to his natural position after Hochstein was injured. Sorry, I missed your RPJr mention. Assists were not kept until 70. Murray may have led in Assists, but Jerry Foley took fewer shots and was a better passer., so he may have led. Staz passed infrequently. Imo he and Murray shot too much. Keith and Ed were two of the top seven scorers per game in HC history, and should have taken more shots. In 66-67 Al took 15.5 fga shooting 35 %. Keith took 14.2 at 45%. In 67-68, Al took 12 at 42 %, Keith took 14.4 at 52%.that season Keith averaged 8.4 ftm per game, Al 2.9. Who should have gotten the ball more ? Potter and Vicens played with far better backcourts., esp their last two seasons. The 73-74 team had a weak front court, which was the main reason they went 8-18. Carb started, but missed six games. Kevin, as a freshman came off the bench, playing 19 games. Carb and Vicens' intensity, plus Potter on the inbounder, fueled the press, which was key in the turnaround. Tex did play better at center, when Keith was out, though he had no low post moves. But the team was substantially worse without Keith's scoring, rebounding, defense and toughness. |
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Post by possum on Jul 22, 2017 12:35:17 GMT -5
You're right Hoops Stazinski took a ton of shots and did not hit a high percentage. Always rooted for him as a local guy from the Cinderella St Mary's program that came out of nowhere to win the New England championship.
Agree that Carb was a tough tough kid and the press was never as good after he graduated. McAuley also had great anticipation and made a lot of steals off the press.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 22, 2017 12:42:28 GMT -5
I really liked Al also, just not his shot attempts. I was his RA his junior year.
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