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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 8, 2017 18:49:45 GMT -5
Worcester is one of the largest cities in New England with families looking for fun and cheap entertainment on Friday an Saturday nights.
You know that playing in the Hockey East would attract hockey and sports fans in general, and not just students / those affiliated with alma mater, right?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 8, 2017 19:22:51 GMT -5
The same non-sports fan poster once tried to correlate HC FB attendance by students as "good" compared to several top 25 schools. That's the only way he knows how to count.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 8, 2017 19:44:39 GMT -5
Are the parking spots big enough at the DCU / downtown Worcester to attract crowds of more than 5,000? That's the real question at hand.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 8, 2017 20:16:27 GMT -5
The parking spaces in the garage would likely have to be re-painted to 2' wider to accommodate larger SUV's & mini-vans that would be able to carry the necessary 6.2 persons per vehicle in order to sell 3.7 extra hot dogs and 2.9 extra foam fingers per vehicle for HC to be able to offset the additional investment required for the extra scholarships needed to compete in HE.
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Post by ncaam on Sept 8, 2017 20:24:26 GMT -5
Less than a year ago, when I spoke with someone very knowledgeable about athletics at HC, I asked about HC joining HE, and the response basically was there is concern on College Hill about the likely level of student attendance for hockey played at the DCU. (Its already difficult to get students to attend football and basketball games on-campus.) Using ADNP's method of calculation, the on-campus registration at HC is about 2700. Given that HC now wants most students to spend part of their four years studying elsewhere, the number will not increase. Small enrollment school, would be smallest enrollment school in HE. And with a small enrollment, what happens to DCU student attendance for hockey if there is a men's hoops game at the Hart in the same timeframe? The net result of poor student attendance at the DCU -- if that's what happens -- is that HC will be subsidizing a high $ loss sport for whatever number of college hockey fans there are in Worcester, many of whom have little or no direct affiliation with HC, or for the fans of other HE schools. Why should HC spend (and lose) money to help BC hockey? Why? For those supposedly in the know about HC and HE, a simple question. What are the contract terms and how much rent is the DCU charging for the NCAA regionals next year? As HC is the sponsoring institution, .the number shouldn't be a college secret hidden in a vault in Fenwick. On the old board, IIRC, the question was periodically asked: 'How much rent would the DCU be charging HC for a HE season of games at the DCU? A basic question, and surely if HC had any serious interest in playing at the DCU, HC has the answer. An answer was never forthcoming. Answers that were posted numerous times were that the DCU should let HC play for free, or even that the DCU should pay HC to play there. Excellent analysis of the situation. But, student attendance at bball not a factor. They dont go thete either.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 9, 2017 7:47:57 GMT -5
The life safety calculations for Luth for exit doors, stair widths at the Hart rink use the following values.
841 number of bench seats 42 number of 'seats' for wheelchair occupants and their companion (26 of these are new and situated at the north end of the rink.) 327 number of spectators in the rink at 50 sq ft per spectator.. I think this is the proxy for standing room.
Total spectator capacity is 1210, with standing room. Life safety exit capacities are higher than that, but the capacities also factor in non-spectator occupants.
1210 is about 200 spectators fewer than what HC lists as capacity at the Hart rink. It is hard to envision standing room for nearly 600, given that a full bench row (not all bench rows are equally sized) might seat 95-100. Don't know if aisles are counted as seats..
The Hart court life safety calculations don't include a count for standing room spectators either. This is how the architects counted capacity of the side court seats. 11 rows, each 112.5 feet long 18 inches per spectator 75 spectators per row 825 spectators per side court ^^^ Apparently assumes spectators are sitting in the aisles, or lots of kids with small fannies. Total court-level seating capacity (collapsible stands) is 2314 .
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Post by realism on Sept 9, 2017 9:46:06 GMT -5
The parking spaces in the garage would likely have to be re-painted to 2' wider to accommodate larger SUV's & mini-vans that would be able to carry the necessary 6.2 persons per vehicle in order to sell 3.7 extra hot dogs and 2.9 extra foam fingers per vehicle for HC to be able to offset the additional investment required for the extra scholarships needed to compete in HE. I love your dogged commitment to the idea of HC becoming a member of HE. However you want to joke about the rigid analysis HC will have to rely upon to make the ultimate decision, the BOT and very senior administrators will require some hard number crunching about costs, various attendance scenarios and the cost/benefits to the institution at various intervals. Posters quoting that ADNP told them "he's working on a deal" means very little to serious decision makers. What else do you expect ADNP to say to random alums ? After all, he's not the ultimate decision maker, has the shiny object cover of the Railers and may not even be here when the ultimate decision comes down.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 9, 2017 10:07:29 GMT -5
The parking spaces in the garage would likely have to be re-painted to 2' wider to accommodate larger SUV's & mini-vans that would be able to carry the necessary 6.2 persons per vehicle in order to sell 3.7 extra hot dogs and 2.9 extra foam fingers per vehicle for HC to be able to offset the additional investment required for the extra scholarships needed to compete in HE. I love your dogged commitment to the idea of HC becoming a member of HE. However you want to joke about the rigid analysis HC will have to rely upon to make the ultimate decision, the BOT and very senior administrators will require some hard number crunching about costs, various attendance scenarios and the cost/benefits to the institution at various intervals. Posters quoting that ADNP told them "he's working on a deal" means very little to serious decision makers. What else do you expect ADNP to say to random alums ? After all, he's not the ultimate decision maker, has the shiny object cover of the Railers and may not even be here when the ultimate decision comes down.Last sentence hits the nail on the head. It's a great PR strategy - send your surrogates out to make it sound like big bad Cliff Rucker is the only reason a deal isn't done, then kick the can down the street for a couple years while the Railers see if they can be successful, and hope to be long gone when things actually come to a head with the hockey program/DCU/Hockey East/Atlantic Hockey situation. We just had $95M+ to spend on athletics facilities, and the administration decided to strip hockey upgrades out of the spending. Now people are supposed to believe it's a just a done deal to increase the budget for that program by seven figures annually to play in the best league in the country with sub-par facilities (while we can't even win a playoff game in the current league)?
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 9, 2017 13:14:48 GMT -5
I love your dogged commitment to the idea of HC becoming a member of HE. However you want to joke about the rigid analysis HC will have to rely upon to make the ultimate decision, the BOT and very senior administrators will require some hard number crunching about costs, various attendance scenarios and the cost/benefits to the institution at various intervals. Posters quoting that ADNP told them "he's working on a deal" means very little to serious decision makers. What else do you expect ADNP to say to random alums ? After all, he's not the ultimate decision maker, has the shiny object cover of the Railers and may not even be here when the ultimate decision comes down.Last sentence hits the nail on the head. It's a great PR strategy - send your surrogates out to make it sound like big bad Cliff Rucker is the only reason a deal isn't done, then kick the can down the street for a couple years while the Railers see if they can be successful, and hope to be long gone when things actually come to a head with the hockey program/DCU/Hockey East/Atlantic Hockey situation. We just had $95M+ to spend on athletics facilities, and the administration decided to strip hockey upgrades out of the spending. Now people are supposed to believe it's a just a done deal to increase the budget for that program by seven figures annually to play in the best league in the country with sub-par facilities (while we can't even win a playoff game in the current league)? Would love to know what you would have taken away from the project that ultimately is being built to work on the hockey side of things. Indoor field? We are going to end up in Hockey East. The administration is not anticipating what student attendance may or may not be in basing the decision on that. Things would not have gotten this far down the road if the college was not comfortable that the incremental costs can be recouped or, just as likely, there are some generous donors lined up to help mitigate the money.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 9, 2017 13:41:07 GMT -5
Last sentence hits the nail on the head. It's a great PR strategy - send your surrogates out to make it sound like big bad Cliff Rucker is the only reason a deal isn't done, then kick the can down the street for a couple years while the Railers see if they can be successful, and hope to be long gone when things actually come to a head with the hockey program/DCU/Hockey East/Atlantic Hockey situation. We just had $95M+ to spend on athletics facilities, and the administration decided to strip hockey upgrades out of the spending. Now people are supposed to believe it's a just a done deal to increase the budget for that program by seven figures annually to play in the best league in the country with sub-par facilities (while we can't even win a playoff game in the current league)? Would love to know what you would have taken away from the project that ultimately is being built to work on the hockey side of things. Indoor field? We are going to end up in Hockey East. The administration is not anticipating what student attendance may or may not be in basing the decision on that. Things would not have gotten this far down the road if the college was not comfortable that the incremental costs can be recouped or, just as likely, there are some generous donors lined up to help mitigate the money. I'm no expert on construction costs, but Quinnipiac built hockey and basketball arenas for a total of $52M. And they are apparently both excellent. Basketball is our "premier" sport, and if hockey is going to the Hockey East, that would also become a much more important sport for the school. With that being the case, it seems like new facilities for those two teams would have better investment than doing nothing for hockey and just giving basketball new bleachers and a map of Massachusetts at center court. I guess what it boils down to is just failing to see the major uplift from the indoor field (and auxiliary gym) compared to other areas that we could have invested in, particularly for our top sports. Is our Lacrosse program, which has been at the bottom of the PL forever, magically going to shoot above historical powers? Doubt it. Is it really going to uplift recruiting for football, where we are competing with the Ivy League for top recruits and there are much better selling points for HC than an indoor field for those kids? Are high school baseball players going to turn down playing outdoors year round in the South and West to come to HC because they can practice on an indoor football field in the winter? Improving locker room facilities, strength and conditioning, and team/film rooms was certainly necessary, but I'm even worried that the budget was spread so thin on that based on the stunningly few number of visuals that have been released for the top secret project.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 9, 2017 13:48:46 GMT -5
If you don't think that having the only indoor field in The Patriot and Ivy leagues is a recruiting and performance advantage than I don't know quite what to tell you.
And if, before the building is even complete, you are judging the quality of the work and facilities based on some Twitter posts and Instagrams then I really don't know quite what to tell you.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 9, 2017 14:08:52 GMT -5
If you don't think that having the only indoor field in The Patriot and Ivy leagues is a recruiting and performance advantage than I don't know quite what to tell you. And if, before the building is even complete, you are judging the quality of the work and facilities based on some Twitter posts and Instagrams then I really don't know quite what to tell you. 1) Of course recruiting should improve, but will there really be a significant uplift? How many kids are thinking, "Man, Harvard and Yale are great, but Holy Cross has an indoor field!" 2) I'm judging the building based on all videos and pictures that have been available. If you think the school has done an effective job marketing this $95M investment then I really don't know what to tell you. The "official" construction updates have been embarrassing. Dick Lutsk just said the new basketball practice gym is done and in use. Why on earth have we seen ZERO pictures? It makes no sense.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 9, 2017 14:38:32 GMT -5
My guess Brighton fields cost <10 million. Student Rec Center $125 million New indoor field house $65 million ^^^ field house. Its under construction as are the playing fields at Brighton, and the student rec center. THE HC field house is better than BC's. ^^^ new student rec center at BC. Has a pool. _________________________ As for generous donors defraying some of the cost of HE and the DCU, $1.5 million a year over ten years would pay for rink expansion at the Hart. If those donors exist, HC almost certainly would use the money to expand the rink.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 9, 2017 14:38:49 GMT -5
Function AND form. Yes, I think we will be able to land kids of increasing quality due to the facility. Just ask any of the coaches and they will tell you it is already making a difference. You cite the lacrosse team that has made significant strides in the last few years, and this facility gives them both support spaces and a practice space that will help them take the next step. Also, I think being able to have effective practices in crappy weather, for teams both in and out of season, will make a difference in on-field performance.
I'm not sure that the school has done a terrible job of marketing the facility. There have been tours offered and more to come. There is a webcam and pictures have been posted in various areas. Not sure if you have ever owned a home or done a renovation, but my guess would be if somebody came in and took pictures for months before it was finished it wouldn't look nearly as good as it did when you were done with it.
All of this gets back to the fact that we made choices as a college that will positively impact a huge number of athletes. As has been stated over and over, hockey has a facility 3 miles down the road that is good enough to host NCAA regionals every other year. In a perfect world if money were unlimited could we or should we have built a 3500 seat on campus ice rink and a new basketball arena? Yes. However, we are a small liberal arts college that didn't start fundraising seriously until the 1980s and therefor are operating under some constraints.
I have walked through the facility as recently as a week ago, and must say I am absolutely blown away at how nice it is. Not sure if or when you have been in the building in the last few months, but I would strongly encourage you to drive to campus and see it for yourself rather than relying on social media.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 9, 2017 14:41:50 GMT -5
Maybe not as official as we would like but breezy posted this very short twitter video on another thread.
Twitter gives us a look at the new practice court.
Follow
Holy Cross MBB ✔ @hcrossmbb
Friday finisher on the court with strength coach, Shep Allen. Getting after it in the new practice gym #WeWill
6:03 PM - Sep 8, 2017
Replies 7 7 Retweets 29 29 likes
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 9, 2017 14:49:58 GMT -5
The twitter video was taken from what I call the NAD balcony!
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Post by realism on Sept 9, 2017 17:12:29 GMT -5
We are going to end up in Hockey East. The administration is not anticipating what student attendance may or may not be in basing the decision on that. Things would not have gotten this far down the road if the college was not comfortable that the incremental costs can be recouped or, just as likely, there are some generous donors lined up to help mitigate the money. "Things would not have gotten this far down the road".....That's just the point.....THINGS HAVEN'T PROGRESSED VERY FAR AT ALL. There's been some tire kicking before Cliff Ricker and the Railers became the shiny object for ADNP to hide behind. What does ADNP have to lose by playing along ? HE desperately wants to manage the "travel thing." They don't know if a Boston area ( widely defined ) institution without a substantial hockey legacy, like HC, can be hoodwinked into taking the financial and strategic risk that will be required.. What does HE have to lose by playing along ? "....some generous donors lined up to help mitigate the money...." ..... At least you can acknowledge that this thing has to find the money. And even the ( so called ) "generous donors." will require a coherent proposal with all the financial facts and multiyear strategic objectives before they write a check. Or are they just "players" also ?
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 10, 2017 9:04:45 GMT -5
My guess Brighton fields cost <10 million. Student Rec Center $125 million New indoor field house $65 million ^^^ field house. Its under construction as are the playing fields at Brighton, and the student rec center. THE HC field house is better than BC's. ^^^ new student rec center at BC. Has a pool. _________________________ As for generous donors defraying some of the cost of HE and the DCU, $1.5 million a year over ten years would pay for rink expansion at the Hart. If those donors exist, HC almost certainly would use the money to expand the rink. The new BC baseball/softball fields are a joke. Can't host regionals in either sport with the seating capacity they put in. Smart move for BC who wins baseball Regional two years ago!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 10, 2017 9:12:25 GMT -5
Some numbers from State College. PSU M's ice hockey, 2015-16. $ in thousandsTotal expenses $3540K Scollie expenses for 18.5 scollie equivalents $1090K Total Direct Revenue $4305K $1683K from ticket sales 111,000 total attendance, 18 games. PSU sells out. $20K from guarantees $631K from contributions (alumni, boosters, sponsors) $270K from concessions, souvenirs $1509K endowment income $190K all other income (no income reported from broadcasts) 'Profit $765K _________________________ Various notesPSU expenses are similar to those for BC, BU, Providence, higher than Northeastern, Merrimack. Revenue from broadcast rights would likely be included in revenue for the athletic department, as would conference, NCAA distributions. There is no PSU university subsidy (from student tuition, fees) of ice hockey.. The $1.5 million in endowment monies may be from a liquidating endowment. IIRC, the donor for the new rink also gave multi-millions for a hockey endowment, As W ice hockey also has endowment income (much smaller amount) the endowment principal would need to be about $40 million to sustain that level of distribution annually. Without the endowment monies, PSU men's ice hockey lost over $700K. Notre Dame ice hockey in 2015-16 had expenses of $4.3 million, revenue of $1.5 million, with average attendance of 4,749. PSU women's ice hockey expenses were $1964K In looking up attendance figures for PSU and ND, I noticed that UConn's attendance had dropped significantly: from 5129 in 2014-15 to 4379 in 2015-16. The PSU numbers came from this report. grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/psu/genrel/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/FY-2016-NCAA-Financial-Report.pdfHC prepares a similar report to the NCAA. I won't bother asking those supposedly in-the-know to give a single value for ice hockey from the revenue portion of that report. Most of the AD staff are likely treated like mushrooms in that respect.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 10, 2017 9:22:40 GMT -5
My guess Brighton fields cost <10 million. Student Rec Center $125 million New indoor field house $65 million ^^^ field house. Its under construction as are the playing fields at Brighton, and the student rec center. THE HC field house is better than BC's. ^^^ new student rec center at BC. Has a pool. _________________________ As for generous donors defraying some of the cost of HE and the DCU, $1.5 million a year over ten years would pay for rink expansion at the Hart. If those donors exist, HC almost certainly would use the money to expand the rink. The new BC baseball/softball fields are a joke. Can't host regionals in either sport with the seating capacity they put in. Smart move for BC who wins baseball Regional two years ago! That's the consequence of being land-poor and having to move the fields to the former residence for the cardinal. I also think they cut seating to keep noise level down. The Secretary of State for the Commonwealth lives nearby and is not a fan. I believe the spectator seating is dark maroon. The fields will be artificial turf.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 10, 2017 10:24:36 GMT -5
This thread is like the now defunct political threads and just like a car wreck for me. I hate it but just can't help looking.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 10, 2017 11:09:50 GMT -5
"Things would not have gotten this far down the road".....That's just the point.....THINGS HAVEN'T PROGRESSED VERY FAR AT ALL. There's been some tire kicking before Cliff Ricker and the Railers became the shiny object for ADNP to hide behind. What does ADNP have to lose by playing along ? HE desperately wants to manage the "travel thing." They don't know if a Boston area ( widely defined ) institution without a substantial hockey legacy, like HC, can be hoodwinked into taking the financial and strategic risk that will be required.. What does HE have to lose by playing along ? "....some generous donors lined up to help mitigate the money...." ..... At least you can acknowledge that this thing has to find the money. And even the ( so called ) "generous donors." will require a coherent proposal with all the financial facts and multiyear strategic objectives before they write a check. Or are they just "players" also ? Has it ever occurred to you that maybe we have a Director of Athletics who isn't doing business in the public eye? Not sure how you would be privvy to all the conversations that he and the other administrators at the school are having with the various constituents involved, but I can guarantee you that unless you are in fact Tim Murray, much more has happened that you just don't know about.
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Post by realism on Sept 10, 2017 18:28:39 GMT -5
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe we have a Director of Athletics who isn't doing business in the public eye? Not sure how you would be privvy to all the conversations that he and the other administrators at the school are having with the various constituents involved, but I can guarantee you that unless you are in fact Tim Murray, much more has happened that you just don't know about. I stand by my post. Enough said.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 10, 2017 19:03:26 GMT -5
Umm ok. Sure. Right. That's a pretty big leap of faith for us to trust that some guy with a nebulous screen name and no real history of posts that indicate he is an insider has real information.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 10, 2017 19:22:46 GMT -5
94 - as I've suggeseted to others, do yourself a solid and ignore this incoherent troll.
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