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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 18, 2017 9:02:34 GMT -5
Seatbacks would bring the stadium under ADA. There were posts on the old board, that the cost of ADA compliance for the Fitton stands would be such that HC would be better off tearing it down, and building a new stadium.
The Minnesota United (MLS) is building a new stadium seating 19,500. Cost $105 million.
This is not a domed stadium.
HC might get by replacing Fitton for maybe $30 million.
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An unofficial rule of thumb with respect to Fitton and ADA, is that if you spend on the order of several million or more to improve the stands, or any structure integral to the stands, you risk ADA. I believe you can do repairs and routinely maintain the stands without risking ADA.
Could you build new bathroom facilities? Yes, if these were not integral. Same for a new pressbox.
If you look at Luth, HC, because of the scope of money being spent on old Hart, had to make the rink and the pool ADA compliant, even though these venues were largely untouched.
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Post by purplehaze on Sept 18, 2017 9:16:43 GMT -5
getting back to the topic here - I was there and in two words 'very disappointing'. unh did not travel well and I'd say there were 'maybe' 5000, although that's through purple-tinted glasses. I agree start times in Sep-Oct should be moved back to 2 or 3 pm. FCS football attendance in the northeast is a real problem that doesn't seems to have a solution.
It would be great if the capacity at Fitton was reduced by 8-10000, but I understand that's just too expensive.
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 18, 2017 9:22:29 GMT -5
Too many?? I'd say he does not have enough. I had 5 brothers & 5 sisters. Mom said go out and play. We had enough to play baseball, football, soccer, street hockey, basketball, tennis, luge (sledding), skating on the pond down the street ...
... every day of the week, all year long and mom and dad did not have to drive us anywhere!  
Just curious do your children play organized sports ? It was a joke hoops but to answer your question, yes, both of my children played organized sports (mostly soccer) for a period of time and when sports ended for each both had other activities including band, assisting/managing the football and basketball team in HS, daughter had dance (from age 3 - 18) & theater from 6th grade forward. Will agree that when they were done with youth sports, I was happy to have a much saner weekend schedule.
But once again, I was kidding, mostly, but also amplifying Joe's comment about youth sports going too far. Not so much the living vicariously though our kids (I don't think too many actually do that), but out of need for parents to keep their kids busy because they can't do what our parents did - which is say go out & play and don't come back until lunch or dinner or dark.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 18, 2017 9:27:25 GMT -5
Thanks
I realized you were joking
Was just curious
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 18, 2017 9:30:29 GMT -5
Improvements needed at Fitton Field: Better locker rooms for home and visitors Need a modern press box Better concession stands with food Large video screen LIGHTS > A new locker room for visitors is planned. > Because of ADA, modern press box has to be built so it doesn't attach to the stadium itself. (See UMass.) > You might get by with the concession stand improvements if these are not part of the stadium structure. > Large video screen. ADNP said on a very recent tour that video screens for the Hart court are coming, at a cost of $2.5 million or so. So I think unless a donor pays for it, Fitton video screens are on hold until the Hart video boards are in. > Lights has been discussed ad nauseum on this board and the old one. IMO, there will be a video screen before there are lights. Lights are a major investment for perhaps two games a year. And its not lights for the stadium but also lighting the surrounding area and access points; e.g., Freshman field. And again IMO, there will be a new parking garage at the top of the hill before there are lights at the Fitton football field. In short, any improvements to the stadium itself at this point is lipstick. 1) Lights are not just so we can have 7:00 PM starts, which become more difficult in late October/November as the temperatures. Playing ~4 games per year at ~3:30 PM (and having a successful team) could increase attendance by 30,00-40,000 people per year. There is a gaping hole for football in Central Massachusetts, and having a fun environment for HC games would be a great alternative to spending hundreds of dollars to bring your family to Foxboro for a Patriots game. It would also make it much easier for alums from NYC to Boston attend games and have an enjoyable tailgate experience to make it a full day. 2) Say we are only able to increase attendance by 30,000 over a full season (I think we should be shooting higher than that), we bring our concessions stands out of the 18th century, and we start selling beer, then $25 per head (ticket + concessions) would be a pretty conservative estimate for dollars-per-head for those 30,000 new attendees. That's $750,000 in additional revenue right there. We are currently averaging bout 7,500 people over the course of 5 home games, so assuming the these upgrades produce an additional $10 per head per game (again, very low, especially if we are selling beer), and that's another $350,000 per season. |
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Attendance
Sept 18, 2017 10:12:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by ncaam on Sept 18, 2017 10:12:30 GMT -5
Bucknell has everything you desire. Ticket cost me and 1500 other souls, $5.00.
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Attendance
Sept 18, 2017 10:31:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by unhfan on Sept 18, 2017 10:31:47 GMT -5
getting back to the topic here - I was there and in two words 'very disappointing'. unh did not travel well and I'd say there were 'maybe' 5000, although that's through purple-tinted glasses. I agree start times in Sep-Oct should be moved back to 2 or 3 pm. FCS football attendance in the northeast is a real problem that doesn't seems to have a solution. It would be great if the capacity at Fitton was reduced by 8-10000, but I understand that's just too expensive. [b I believe you can include FBS football in your argument for poor attendance in New England. BC isn't selling out games and when they do it's to serve their opponent i.e. Norte Dame. The problem is New England is a pro sports area and I don't see that changing which will impact attendance. |
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Post by hc87 on Sept 18, 2017 10:39:57 GMT -5
Not my $$$  but this doesn't sound like brain surgery or rocket science. How much was the rental for the lights? 50K I believe. Normal Fitton season has 5 or 6 home games. Seems like we could play 1 (maybe 2) 3:30 games in Sept, leave the HC and PW games at 12:30 or 1 and then have two night games in Oct and Nov. Two night games=100K in light rentals....a figure that could be offset, as said elsewhere, in added attendance, concessions, parking fees etc etc An oversimplified answer perhaps, but I don't think it's that far off. |
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Post by joe on Sept 18, 2017 10:58:44 GMT -5
My gut tells me the folks in charge underappreciate the impact a Fitton revival would make. It's not that they don't agree that it needs to get done at some point in the future, it's just that they do not see a favorable return on investment in the short term. This is where many of us seem to disagree. Wonder if there are any more rich alumni out there with a soft spot for football.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 18, 2017 11:01:16 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that later starts increase attendance ?
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Post by hc87 on Sept 18, 2017 11:13:10 GMT -5
I know the UMass and UNH night Fitton games drew in the 15K range, granted local rivalry games...but so could have been this past UNH game.
I realize the 20K+ crowds at Fitton are as old and nevah to return as Flutie and I....but night games, against the right opponent, marketed well etc etc could easily bring in 10K+ instead of the 3-5K crowds that are routine here and elsewhere at the FCS level in the Northeast.
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Post by lou on Sept 18, 2017 11:46:09 GMT -5
but would 87 show up?
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Post by hc87 on Sept 18, 2017 12:09:37 GMT -5
lol...I went to both of those night games. Again, I will gladly match my attending HC football games (home and away) against most alumni |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 18, 2017 12:09:44 GMT -5
When Harvard started playing under the lights, attendance really jumped. It was surmised that the jump was mainly due to the late starts being a prelude to the parties that followed. Brown had a similar experience, but Brown's jump may have subsided in subsequent years. There appears to be something of a novelty factor at play as well.
When Harvard started, I believe they scheduled local opponents, such as Holy Cross and Brown, both of whom have a large alumni base in Greater Boston.
My recollection, which could be flawed, was that early game starts were partly driven by trying to avoid the late afternoon and early evening football games that were national broadcasts. The continuing couch potato interest in Saturday and Sunday football is evidenced even today, as the PGA is apparently ending the tour around Labor Day, starting in 2019. After Labor Day, its broadcast ratings plunge, so do advertising dollars. Don't know about attendance.
If you're a fan of football, and don't really give a hoot about either HC or Oregon, but Oregon-USC is on the telly, and Lafayette is playing HC at Fitton under the lights, what are you likely to do?
Further, the League has something to say about evening games. For example, if GU insisted on its HC game starting at 6 PM, that means two hotel nights if HC flies, or a ore-dawn Sunday arrival if HC went by bus.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 18, 2017 12:19:16 GMT -5
The lack of UNH attendance was shocking to me. You would think a school with probably fifty thousand or more alumni parents and Friends within 50 miles of Worcester would turn out to watch the #9 team in the country and their closest road game of the year. Sadly I think the fan base has just gotten used to being ranked as I believe we had the second longest streak for being ranked. UNH seems to travel well for CAA games and FBS but besides that not so much. Not sure how to explain it heck we still have trouble getting people to stop drinking to come into the game. This week with homecoming will be a great example. Their will be over 25k tickets sold and maybe a qtr will leave the tailgate. I remember that last year where you guys listed a 20K attendance for Homecoming with about a quarter of that actually making it inside the gates.
Good luck in the CAA this year, this board is certainly pulling for you guys. I hope to make it up to Durham next year.
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Post by purplehaze on Oct 2, 2017 15:16:42 GMT -5
Bucknell wins the honesty award again this week with their announced 'crowd' (that's the wrong word) of 1900 for their game vs Monmouth.
HC does not have a conscience saying 7600 were there on Saturday.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 2, 2017 15:32:48 GMT -5
Could it be that our fans see us as "losers" across the Board and would prefer to tailgate rather than enter?
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Post by hcpride on Oct 2, 2017 16:01:13 GMT -5
Yale - Fordham 3988 attendance . I know Fordham stinks and a blowout was predictable this year but there are 10 million folks in NYC (many of whom have some connection to Fordham) who can easily and cheaply get to the game via car or mass transit, plus Yale has an enormous number of alums and is located just one hour away.
And in a grand and failed experiment, Georgetown - Harvard drew under 4K in cavernous RFK stadium in our nation's capital this Saturday. Can't imagine that'll spur the stadium plan at Georgetown. Again the predictable blowout (41-2) and a decided lack of interest in an area that must have tens of thousands of Georgetown/Harvard graduates and hundreds of thousands of college football fans.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 2, 2017 16:10:09 GMT -5
Could it be that our fans see us as "losers" across the Board and would prefer to tailgate rather than enter? Basically. The only way to get them back is to create a fun environment in the stadium (not to send a letter). The environment inside Fitton was never anything special, but it was always far better than it is right now with these new policies in place. More security + more rules = no students. Not exactly rocket science. |
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Post by ncaam on Oct 2, 2017 16:17:42 GMT -5
If security is so bad why did people stay outside.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 2, 2017 16:20:03 GMT -5
Yale @ Fordham, 6 PM kickoff. Temperature 60.. Attendance 3988.
Colgate @ Cornell. 1:30 kickoff, Temperature ? (but weather was good) Attendance 3325
Lehigh @ Wagner, 6 PM kickoff, Temperature 62, Attendance 2073
Columbia @ Princeton, 12:30 kickoff, temperature 64, attendance 5073
Evening start appears to make little difference. Attendance is mediocre, and that's charitable.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 2, 2017 16:26:04 GMT -5
If security is so bad why did people stay outside. The students stay on Frosh Field for as long as they can, then find somewhere else to go. They aren't going to party on Frosh Field from 1030/11-1, then be harassed by security and forced to sit on their hands from 1-430. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 2, 2017 16:27:33 GMT -5
Yale @ Fordham, 6 PM kickoff. Temperature 60.. Attendance 3988. Colgate @ Cornell. 1:30 kickoff, Temperature ? (but weather was good) Attendance 3325 Lehigh @ Wagner, 6 PM kickoff, Temperature 62, Attendance 2073 Columbia @ Princeton, 12:30 kickoff, temperature 64, attendance 5073 Evening start appears to make little difference. Attendance is mediocre, and that's charitable. Which of those places is a) in a location comparable to Worcester, and b) has an alumni base that has traditionally supported their football team? |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 2, 2017 16:35:29 GMT -5
Yale @ Fordham, 6 PM kickoff. Temperature 60.. Attendance 3988. Colgate @ Cornell. 1:30 kickoff, Temperature ? (but weather was good) Attendance 3325 Lehigh @ Wagner, 6 PM kickoff, Temperature 62, Attendance 2073 Columbia @ Princeton, 12:30 kickoff, temperature 64, attendance 5073 Evening start appears to make little difference. Attendance is mediocre, and that's charitable. Which of those places is a) in a location comparable to Worcester, and b) has an alumni base that has traditionally supported their football team? Princeton's average attendance in 2003 was 13656 Cornell's average attendance in 2003 was 6050 Penn's average attendance was 12083. See separate Penn Dartmouth thread for most recent attendance for that game. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 2, 2017 16:39:14 GMT -5
Which of those places is a) in a location comparable to Worcester, and b) has an alumni base that has traditionally supported their football team? Princeton's average attendance in 2003 was 13656 Cornell's average attendance in 2003 was 6050 Penn's average attendance was 12083. See separate Penn Dartmouth thread for most recent attendance for that game. Yikes. |
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but this doesn't sound like brain surgery or rocket science. How much was the rental for the lights? 50K I believe. 
