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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 18, 2017 15:56:16 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Oct 18, 2017 16:02:29 GMT -5
18 points behind Army in 7th We do not have the most freshmen. That honor belongs to AU. wonder if KC got many votes for All PL ?
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Post by bison137 on Oct 18, 2017 16:24:39 GMT -5
We do not have the most freshmen. That honor belongs to AU. wonder if KC got many votes for All PL ? True. HC has more scholarship freshmen however I imagine KC will make one of the three All-PL teams selected at the end of the year - but it's very unlikely he got any votes for the 5-man team that was just selected. All of those selected are seniors who were no worse than 2nd team last year. KC didn't even make 3rd team last year.
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Post by HC92 on Oct 18, 2017 17:49:04 GMT -5
Wish we had been picked 9th.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 18, 2017 17:52:02 GMT -5
KC's stock will rise because (1) he is a very talented player and (2) HC will depend on him a lot more with RC and MA graduating, so he should score a lot more
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Post by hc811215 on Oct 19, 2017 10:13:43 GMT -5
And the Yankees were rebuilding this year too. I bet we finish in the top half of the league at least.
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Post by joutsHC77 on Oct 19, 2017 10:57:29 GMT -5
HC will surprise people and win. Carmody brought in some gems. We will see, future is bright.
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Post by bigfan on Oct 19, 2017 12:03:25 GMT -5
Looks like other people are not impressed by our Freshmen recruits.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 19, 2017 12:33:27 GMT -5
I looked at three of the sports magazines (Lindy's, Athlon, Sporting News?) and none of them think a lot of our chances. All three magazines had the PL ranked 1-Bucknell 2-Boston U 3-Navy 4- Lehigh
Two had Colgate 5th and one had Loyola.
Holy Cross was ranked 8th, 9th, 7th. I'll take the "over"
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Post by dadominate on Oct 19, 2017 12:52:20 GMT -5
I looked at three of the sports magazines (Lindy's, Athlon, Sporting News?) and none of them think a lot of our chances. All three magazines had the PL ranked 1-Bucknell 2-Boston U 3-Navy 4- Lehigh Two had Colgate 5th and one had Loyola. Holy Cross was ranked 8th, 9th, 7th. I'll take the "over" i'm with you on the over, ky! i see us finishing somewhere in the middle of the league (4th-6th) similar to last year. losing ma definitely hurts, but due to injury or otherwise poor performance the other senior losses will prove to be much worse on paper than out on the court. i imagine we will be a team that is considered a threat by the end of the season. and next year... watch out!
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Post by hchoops on Oct 19, 2017 13:30:16 GMT -5
I looked at three of the sports magazines (Lindy's, Athlon, Sporting News?) and none of them think a lot of our chances. All three magazines had the PL ranked 1-Bucknell 2-Boston U 3-Navy 4- Lehigh Two had Colgate 5th and one had Loyola. Holy Cross was ranked 8th, 9th, 7th. I'll take the Magazines base their mid and low major predictions on returning players. They know nothing about mid or low major frosh
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 19, 2017 14:20:46 GMT -5
I looked at three of the sports magazines (Lindy's, Athlon, Sporting News?) and none of them think a lot of our chances. All three magazines had the PL ranked 1-Bucknell 2-Boston U 3-Navy 4- Lehigh Two had Colgate 5th and one had Loyola. Holy Cross was ranked 8th, 9th, 7th. I'll take the Magazines base their mid and low major predictions on returning players. They know nothing about mid or low major froshAgree 100%--when you read some of the analyses you see in the mags you have to wonder if they are just flipping coins to predict who the top freshmen will be or maybe just seeing who was ranked higher by some goofball service.
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Post by possum on Oct 19, 2017 14:54:00 GMT -5
The preseason poll looks very realistic to me, don't know how we could be predicted higher than we are based on returning talent. I wouldn't have been surprised to see us picked last. I'm cautiously optimistic about the freshmen but will hold judgment till we see them in action. Carmody's prior recruits have been less than stellar with only one having any impact. Last years team could have been much better if we had recruited a couple of players that were ready to play at this level.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 19, 2017 14:57:42 GMT -5
Looks like other people are not impressed by our Freshmen recruits. Not yet, anyway. Let's see how they feel after we play them later in the season. I would rather have this poll et the bar low and surprise people, than to be pick high and disappoint. Remember the poll or CMB's first year?
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Post by somedaycamesuddenly on Oct 19, 2017 15:45:13 GMT -5
With such a big class for Holy Cross, some of the players are bound to develop in to quality players. The question is, in year one, how close will those players be to average Patriot League players? Most freshman come in with limited roles where they can be efficient (Tyler Scanlon for us) or their efficiency suffers with more volume from what I see (Saeed Nelson for AU). It's rare to have an Anthony Lamb (UVM freshman last year) who can contribute to a team with high volume and efficiency.
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Post by HC92 on Oct 19, 2017 15:52:32 GMT -5
Not worried about preseason polls. Excited to see the new guys and to see which of the returnees is ready to make a big jump either from good to great (Karl? Benzan?) or from low impact to good (Ziggy? LeSann? Perkins?).
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Post by WorcesterGray on Oct 19, 2017 17:44:57 GMT -5
The preseason poll looks very realistic to me, don't know how we could be predicted higher than we are based on returning talent. I wouldn't have been surprised to see us picked last. Actually, NBC Sports poll did pick us last . . . collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/10/18/patriot-league-preview-who-can-challenge-bucknell/I am cautiously pessimistic. I believe, realistically, there are 2-3 of our freshman who will develop into 1st or 2nd team all-PL types, and I'm excited to watch them grow as a class. But we get a little solipsistic on this board. To wit . . . 1. Believe it or not, every other PL team has freshmen, too! Walter Whyte at BU and Jimmy Sotos at Bucknell, e.g., were more heavily recruited than any of our frosh, and may be even more promising - bison137 can talk more about some of the other good freshmen in the conference. 2. It's clear that our freshmen have to make up a lot of lost minutes/performance from last year's graduating seniors. The question, for me, is do they also have to make up for a continued, significant under-performance from the current sophomore class? Because, believe it or not, every other team in the PL, has a far more experienced sophomore class than we do. Avg PL Team Soph Experience: 40+mpg, 14.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.6 apg. HC Soph Experience: 6mpg, 1.1ppg, 0.9 rpg, 0.1 apg
It's one thing to hope that our freshmen, as a group, are talented enough to compensate for one empty class - more daunting the task to compensate for two (with no class immediately behind them). Really need either CLS or JS to make a major advance, sooner rather than later. Btw, word is there may be no open practice this year - first look at the team for us hoi polloi may be at the Assumption exhibition.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 19, 2017 18:56:22 GMT -5
Some good points, WG Here is a different perspective. Once the team is set, the class one is in is mostly irrelevant. Each player competes, and the best 7, 8, 9 or however many the coach decides to be in the rotation, get the minutes, regardless of class. The good side is that if 3,4, 5 or even all 6 freshmen are in the rotation, that does not necessarily indicate the sophs or juniors out of the rotation are not good, just that the frosh were better. Plus it bodes well for the next three seasons
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 19, 2017 19:02:51 GMT -5
My distinct impression is that CWC believes that superior talent will trump (sorry) experience. I also think that he is more optimistic about the upcoming season than I am, especially in the out of conference early schedule. But I believe it was Ralph who used to say that by the latter part of a season there is no such thing as a freshman. If CWC pulls off either a regular season or tournament league championship or even finishes 2nd or 3rd, he will likely get COY award.
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Post by notjuanjones on Oct 19, 2017 21:13:17 GMT -5
The preseason poll looks very realistic to me, don't know how we could be predicted higher than we are based on returning talent. I wouldn't have been surprised to see us picked last. Actually, NBC Sports poll did pick us last . . . collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/10/18/patriot-league-preview-who-can-challenge-bucknell/I am cautiously pessimistic. I believe, realistically, there are 2-3 of our freshman who will develop into 1st or 2nd team all-PL types, and I'm excited to watch them grow as a class. But we get a little solipsistic on this board. To wit . . . 1. Believe it or not, every other PL team has freshmen, too! Walter Whyte at BU and Jimmy Sotos at Bucknell, e.g., were more heavily recruited than any of our frosh, and may be even more promising - bison137 can talk more about some of the other good freshmen in the conference. 2. It's clear that our freshmen have to make up a lot of lost minutes/performance from last year's graduating seniors. The question, for me, is do they also have to make up for a continued, significant under-performance from the current sophomore class? Because, believe it or not, every other team in the PL, has a far more experienced sophomore class than we do. Avg PL Team Soph Experience: 40+mpg, 14.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.6 apg. HC Soph Experience: 6mpg, 1.1ppg, 0.9 rpg, 0.1 apg
It's one thing to hope that our freshmen, as a group, are talented enough to compensate for one empty class - more daunting the task to compensate for two (with no class immediately behind them). Really need either CLS or JS to make a major advance, sooner rather than later. Btw, word is there may be no open practice this year - first look at the team for us hoi polloi may be at the Assumption exhibition.
A couple of points. One, just about everyone picked AU to be in the bottom third of the league in 2014, Brennan's first year. The coaches picked us ninth in the preseason poll. We went 14-4 in the regular season and won the tournament final at Boston by 19. So preseason polls don't mean jack. Two, no one, starting with your coaches and ours, have any idea which one of the freshmen will "fire" or not fire when they start playing for real. We think Sam Iorio will be very good right away, but there's no guarantee. Like you, a lot of our young guys are going to play a lot this year. One or two will be better than expected; one or two will likely be worse. Also, almost no one has written a word about our two Juco players who'll play this season. If one of them does more than anticipated, all of a sudden, it's a very different team/season. Same with you guys if you get unexpected contributions from one of your upperclassmen. (FWIW, it won't surprise me if Benzan has a huge season.)
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Post by sader81 on Oct 20, 2017 6:56:46 GMT -5
I like the low expectations. What's the old saying, 'the best thing about sophomores is that they become juniors!' I expect progressions out of KC & PB, and big jumps for JF, Ziggy and Perkins. LeSann, Stevens & the frosh contributions will be gravy! I'm not expecting a top two finish, but I think we will surprise people.
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Post by Tom on Oct 20, 2017 8:21:49 GMT -5
The preseason poll looks very realistic to me, don't know how we could be predicted higher than we are based on returning talent. I wouldn't have been surprised to see us picked last. Actually, NBC Sports poll did pick us last . . . collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/10/18/patriot-league-preview-who-can-challenge-bucknell/I am cautiously pessimistic. I believe, realistically, there are 2-3 of our freshman who will develop into 1st or 2nd team all-PL types, and I'm excited to watch them grow as a class. But we get a little solipsistic on this board. To wit . . . 1. Believe it or not, every other PL team has freshmen, too! Walter Whyte at BU and Jimmy Sotos at Bucknell, e.g., were more heavily recruited than any of our frosh, and may be even more promising - bison137 can talk more about some of the other good freshmen in the conference. 2. It's clear that our freshmen have to make up a lot of lost minutes/performance from last year's graduating seniors. The question, for me, is do they also have to make up for a continued, significant under-performance from the current sophomore class? Because, believe it or not, every other team in the PL, has a far more experienced sophomore class than we do. Avg PL Team Soph Experience: 40+mpg, 14.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.6 apg. HC Soph Experience: 6mpg, 1.1ppg, 0.9 rpg, 0.1 apg
It's one thing to hope that our freshmen, as a group, are talented enough to compensate for one empty class - more daunting the task to compensate for two (with no class immediately behind them). Really need either CLS or JS to make a major advance, sooner rather than later. Btw, word is there may be no open practice this year - first look at the team for us hoi polloi may be at the Assumption exhibition.
Some random thoughts. . . - A bi geeky, but I think your HC soph experience numbers are inflated. They represent the average for the games participated in. True enough Jack Stevens averaged a minute per game playing 9 minutes in 9 games and LeSann averaged 5 minutes over 24 games. However, the team played 32 games. Stevens minute in a third of the games is less meaningful than averaging a minute in every game - I'm a little surprised the average PL school had freshmen averaging 40+ minutes per game. Two years ago, HC was well over that, but Charles was 28 by himself. This class that just graduated had pretty solid freshmen play from Alexander and Champion, but only averaged 30 minutes a game. Lots of teams must have had studs of a Charles caliber to offset other schools with solid classed getting 30 minutes a game if the league average is over 40. Not disputing, just surprised - Not shocked by no open practice. I only remember two - last year and the 2012/13 season (plus an annual intra squad Purplr/White scrimmage that was opened up one year Family Weekend was somehow scheduled on a weekend with no football and the school was scrambling for programming to entertain the familes). Coach Carmody has done it once in his two year tenure on the hill. Not exactly a long standing tradition - Mildly on topic, the most recent freshman to make 1st team all conference that I can remember is CJ McCollum, Most players at this level need some development
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Post by bison137 on Oct 20, 2017 10:33:46 GMT -5
- Mildly on topic, the most recent freshman to make 1st team all conference that I can remember is CJ McCollum, Most players at this level need some development. True. In fact in the 27 years of the PL, only five freshman players have made ANY level of all-league. Three are the only PL players to play in the NBA - McCollum, Muscala, and Foyle. The other two: Pat Campolieta and Kahron Ross. While some frosh have clearly made their teams better, CJ and Foyle might be the only two to make their team dramatically better. The 2014 AU team mentioned above - which by far is the biggest outlier in terms of actual performance relative to the poll - actually went 13-5 after being picked for 9th. But the reason for their improvement was not frosh. Three big factors: (1) transfer Pee Wee Gardner had a great year, clearly a lot better than the pollsters expected; (2) Tony Wroblicky was one of the more improved seniors in league history, becoming one of the league's top three players; and (3) Jesse Reed went from an OK player seeing limited minutes as a frosh to an All-PL player with an effective FG pct of 60% as a sophomore. One other big factor is that AU had a core four that rarely came off the floor, and all four players were healthy all year. It also didn't hurt that Brennan was new and the league didn't seem to defend the Princeton Offense well. AU that year had the second highest effective FG pct in league history - one year after having had a mediocre percentage. Not saying it's impossible for HC to make it into the top five, but league history suggests that the biggest factor in teams greatly outperforming their rankings is improvement of returning players. Also, obviously, avoiding injuries is huge. As for the preseason poll, it is by no means infallible - but it has been reasonably accurate over the years. The good news for HC is that it seems to have been less accurate recently.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 20, 2017 17:10:13 GMT -5
Yeah, c'mon you pollyannas......next thing you're gonna tell me is we could make some noise as a number 9 seed. Get real.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 20, 2017 17:36:03 GMT -5
Thanks, NAD Never gets old I had forgotten about frosh KC’s clinching 3 no reluctance for that freshman
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