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Post by jkh67 on Nov 20, 2017 21:11:14 GMT -5
I called the HC development office today to find out how to contribute RMD funds from an IRA to football and the men's basketball program. Lo and behold, I was told that any contribution to men's basketball would automatically be shared roughly equally with the women's program. No ifs, ands, or buts. Didn't matter that I wanted all the basketball money to go to the men's program.
Nothing against women (I'm happily married to one and have two highly successful daughters), but I have no interest in women's basketball at HC. But, even though it's my money...my money, for God's sake!...I can't direct where I want it to go when it comes to b'ball.
I've reluctantly decided to give nothing to HC athletics and contribute instead to the Iron Dukes athletic fund at Duke University...alma mater to my wife and two of my children.
SAD!
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Post by hcgrad94 on Nov 20, 2017 21:20:38 GMT -5
What's actually sad is that you will only support men's BB, so you took your ball and went home.
Duke BB: there's a program that really needs your money. I'm sure Coach K really appreciates your donation and it will enable those fine student athletes to have a better meal on their next road trip (before they quit school and turn pro).
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Post by dadominate on Nov 20, 2017 21:32:00 GMT -5
I called the HC development office today to find out how to contribute RMD funds from an IRA to football and the men's basketball program. Lo and behold, I was told that any contribution to men's basketball would automatically be shared roughly equally with the women's program. No ifs, ands, or buts. Didn't matter that I wanted all the basketball money to go to the men's program. Nothing against women (I'm happily married to one and have two highly successful daughters), but I have no interest in women's basketball at HC. But, even though it's my money...my money, for God's sake!...I can't direct where I want it to go when it comes to b'ball. I've reluctantly decided to give nothing to HC athletics and contribute instead to the Iron Dukes athletic fund at Duke University...alma mater to my wife and two of my children. SAD! i agree that this is lame. did you try contacting the athletic department itself? i wouldn't trust or defer to the development office with where my money is going for a second. speaking from experience (and that of a few other posters), i supported some of the men's basketball team trips abroad and every dime of my donation went just to that cause, per my explicit instruction. i went directly through the athletic department and i suspect you might have more success going that route. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 20, 2017 21:57:51 GMT -5
The most recent time I sent $$$ for the men's team I later got a thank you postcard signed by both coaches Carmody and Gibbons......
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 20, 2017 22:07:13 GMT -5
Old news, JKH, as I discovered this about 5 years ago and posted about it. I was told this was because of title IX issues. Whether that's actually true or not, that's the story and that's what they stick to. As a result, I stopped giving to basketball and gave all CAF $$$ to football until last year when I decided to give some to basketball knowing half was going to the ladies. Don't know, but suspect any donations to a men's sport where there is a matching ladies team, half and half like soccer, hockey, tennis, etc. Because there is no women's football team, you can give 100% of your donation to that sport. Not sure if ladies softball team gets half of men's baseball donations.
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Post by breezy on Nov 20, 2017 22:14:20 GMT -5
My understanding is that a contribution to any sport that has both men's and women's teams is shared equally -- certainly true for basketball, soccer, and lacrosse (and I suspect also true for swimming, rowing, track & field, etc.). This policy has been publicly announced for some time -- perhaps at the beginning of the Crusader Athletic Fund or very shortly after it was started.
I've always suspected that this is somehow related to Title IX, but I am not certain of that.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 20, 2017 22:21:14 GMT -5
Where is all this hatred toward women's sports coming from? The attitude that HC men's sports are somehow the athletic version of the Our Gang "He Man Woman-haters Club" does seem a bit out of date.
If you don't want to give a donation, hat's fine - but why the need to post about it here on CROSSPORTS? Wouldn't the Duke site be a more appropriate location?
And...what happened to the part of your donation you aid you wanted to give to football? Did you stiff them because you didn't want any part of something they were not going top get in any case to go to women's basketball? That seems strange as well.
Finally, how do you know that the Duke women do not get a part of the Duke basketball donations?
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2017 6:50:41 GMT -5
Rob, I can't speak for anyone else but this has nothing to do with hatred toward women's sports. Those on here who know me personally and those who read my posts know that I have had season tickets for football and men's basketball for all the years that I have been within driving distance of the campus. When the PL played basketball double-headers, I had season tickets for the ladies basketball team as well. There are just so many trips one can take up Rt. 146. When the mens/ladies teams split, I made a choice to support the men by continuing to buy tickets for the men. Way back when, I knew the lady players as well as the men basketball players. Once I stopped going to the ladies games and exacerbated by what seemed to be BG's "mailng it in" performance, I lost interest in the that team. Nothing against the players, just a seemingly "don't care" attitude by the coaching staff and/or the College.
I was a charter member of the "Gridiron Club" the football booster program and all my money went there. It was intended as an experiment, at first, to see if the College got money at a level worth doing. It was successful and a year or two (or three?) later, they created the Crusader Athletics Fund for all the other sports. My donations for athletics, apart from that given to the HC Fund, stayed with football for some time as the basketball program, both mens and womens, seemed to be well healed, and football seemed to have the larger need - football being a much larger program, more coaches, more recruiting trips, more equipment, etc.
We lost RW as Coach and Milan came in (sorry to bring him up) and appeared that basketball could use the financial support. I "split my ticket" to both football and intended mens basketball (something like 60-40 towards football/basketball). I did this for a year or so and got a thank you from either BG or his players, which I didn't understand and called about it. Then, not having seen any public notice because I am sure there wasn't any at the time, I was told that any donation to any sport that had both a mens and womens team would be split between them. I said I wanted my $ to go to the men's basketball team and was told they could not do that specifically due to title IX. I went back to donating only to football because nothing had changed with the ladies basketball program.
I did then notice that future "applications" for CAF now state that money is split with mens and womens teams. Either it was not on there in the beginning or I did not notice. I have since donated to basketball now knowing that the ladies get a portion of my donation to CAF. While I don't go to the ladies games, my impression the last couple or three years is that BG has a renewed "fire in the belly" and have no problem with him getting some of my CAF money.
All that said, if a donor wants to designate his/her money towards a specific sport, I think that should be allowed just as someone can donate to the College for other specific purposes. If you follow mens LAX for example maybe you want all your money to support that specific team.
I am no expert on title IX but I really thought that was an excuse, or a very loose interpretation, by the College and it was HC's way to ensure some money helped support the ladies not just the mens teams.
Again, others may have different reasons but wouldn't assume it is hatred or even dislike of the womens teams, rather support for the team they follow. Otherwise, one can donate to the general CAF fund and the College spreads the money around to all sports as the College deems the need.
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Post by CHC8485 on Nov 21, 2017 7:37:34 GMT -5
No Title IX expert here, but I believe there is a requirement for some sort of proportionality of support for men’s and women’s sports. Recall the college was investigated and had findings from a Title IX investigation in part because the facilities provided to softball were inferior when compared to baseball - the comparison used in the report.
So going back to the creation of the CAF, the men’s basketball team had been receiving $X and the women $Y in funding from the college. The CAF starts and lets say the college is estimating the men will receive $250,000 and the women $20,000 in donations. What does school do to maintain that previous balance between the programs and avoid running into a potential Title IX suit? Two option,
A) reduce institutional funding for men and beef up institutional support for the women
or
B) make sure new support from the CAF is split between the teams.
I recall the equal split being made very clear from the outset of the CAF and suspect that they chose option B at least in part for transparency.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 21, 2017 8:19:39 GMT -5
sader1970,
Thank you for that detailed explanation. I feel I understood what was behind the decision, and I respect it. I just was not comfortable with the way it was posted it on Crossports. IMHO, Duke basketball is perhaps the best funded hoop program in the nation, so sending your donation there is not as powerful as it would be at HC. Does HC sometimes not do a god job of communicating...no doubt. But, on this one, I can remember seeing a written explanation of the mens/women's division some years ago. I hope you can soon enjoy supporting the women's team once again and that you do not lose interest in the challenging world of HC athletics.
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Post by Tom on Nov 21, 2017 8:39:29 GMT -5
Semantics sort of thing, but I think the Crusader Athletic Fund has always been set up that you can donate to a sport. You donate to "basketball", not men's basketball or women's basketball - just basketball. I always assumed it was a Title IX thing. I believe you can give to baseball or softball separately.
I agree that it might be worth asking Duke the same question.
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Post by lou on Nov 21, 2017 10:04:33 GMT -5
Glad this was brought up. Since M/W never play together, we live too far away to try to watch and support both teams during a season. We watch the men's games, go to golf events, meet the coaches, etc, have never done that with Gibbons. So we donate to men's basketball, or we thought we did until Carmody and Gibbons both thanked us for our donations! I believe if I'm donating I should be able to say who gets my $$...
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Post by hcnation on Nov 21, 2017 10:15:02 GMT -5
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Post by alum on Nov 21, 2017 10:58:31 GMT -5
Glad this was brought up. Since M/W never play together, we live too far away to try to watch and support both teams during a season. We watch the men's games, go to golf events, meet the coaches, etc, have never done that with Gibbons. So we donate to men's basketball, or we thought we did until Carmody and Gibbons both thanked us for our donations! I believe if I'm donating I should be able to say who gets my $$... You can say who gets your money and the College can decline your gift. They have made that decision. At the end of the day, the College is obliged to offer reasonably similar programs with similar funding and amenities. If donations to the men's program far outweigh those to the women, the College has to make it up out of its own funds. They don't want to do more of that than they are already doing to offset the cost of football. It crossed my mind that the College might be a little gun shy having been hit with a Title IX complaint regarding softball. A quick google brought up this consent decree. www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/investigations/more/01112050-a.pdfI would say that subsections 1 and 2 of the Voluntary Resolution Agreement can be fulfilled, at least in part, by requiring that all gifts be apportioned. At least the College stepped up when they knew they were in the wrong. Freshmen sports have disappeared at my local public high school due to budget concerns in recent years. Booster groups have volunteered to pay for them. The District always insists that those groups understand that they must pay for the girls' program as well even if the girls' parents don't want to participate in the fundraising. |
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Post by lou on Nov 21, 2017 11:01:30 GMT -5
Complicated, I know...but we did specify men's Basketball, there were no questions asked, it was split.
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Post by alum on Nov 21, 2017 11:04:53 GMT -5
Complicated, I know...but we did specify men's Basketball, there were no questions asked, it was split. I think that they should tell you how it works up front and if you are hesitant, try to persuade you to make the joint gift. That is the job of an advancement professional--to understand your priorities, explain the College's and see if he or she can find some way to making both sides happy. |
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Post by Tom on Nov 21, 2017 11:06:15 GMT -5
Glad this was brought up. Since M/W never play together, we live too far away to try to watch and support both teams during a season. We watch the men's games, go to golf events, meet the coaches, etc, have never done that with Gibbons. So we donate to men's basketball, or we thought we did until Carmody and Gibbons both thanked us for our donations! I believe if I'm donating I should be able to say who gets my $$... Like most that donate, you probably checked a little box that said "basketball" either electronically or on mailed paper literature from the school. I would assume unless you specifically instruct them not to use your donation for women's basketball it would go into a generic basketball account. Even if you give specific instructions that a donation not be used for the women, my guess is the school will not politely refuse your gift, but kind of rob Peter to pay Paul. They will take your donation and give it all to the guys, but take mine and not give any to the guys since I only checked the basketball box. Thus your women prohibition is honored and they still keep their 50-50. I'm sure that most basketball donors intend it for the men. I'm equally sure that most of those givers just fill out the form thinking about the men without much consideration that the term basketball could also refer to the women's team -------------------------------------------------- towards Lou's comments about going to golf tournaments. I'm not sure how that works. For three years in a row now, there has been a golf tournament as a fundraiser for the men's basketball team, I have no idea if the women get a cut. It is clearly advertised as a fundraiser for men's hoops. The Crusader Athletic Fund might lead some to make false assumptions, but is totally accurate that it's for basketball. On the flip side, for a number of years the women's hoops have run a bowl-a-thon fundraiser. If the women get a cut of golf (which, in all fairness, would be false advertising), do the guys get a cut of the bowling proceeds? |
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Post by lou on Nov 21, 2017 11:07:41 GMT -5
Complicated, I know...but we did specify men's Basketball, there were no questions asked, it was split. I think that they should tell you how it works up front and if you are hesitant, try to persuade you to make the joint gift. That is the job of an advancement professional--to understand your priorities, explain the College's and see if he or she can find some way to making both sides happy. Correct, and my wife is one of them at another institution, and part of the reason why we understand how poorly this was handled. Not the first time at HC |
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2017 12:34:53 GMT -5
I was just going to let this drop but since Lou brought it up and I may be wrong, if so, it'll be the first time . . . . . . today. I was pretty sure the first year or two of the CAF that there were boxes for men's and women's basketball as separate. Then, perhaps due to the other causes folks posted above and realizing money was going to men and little to the ladies, they may have changed it to "basketball" generically. While my wife accuses me as a pack rat, my records don't go that far back, or I have it squirreled away somewhere that I can't find the original requests for money. Regardless of the past, clearly the CAF now generically states "basketball" link: securelb.imodules.com/s/1380/15/index.aspx?DB_OEM_ID=33100&sid=1380&gid=1&pgid=1900&cid=4138&appealcode=16GHC&_ga=2.108066114.1179575661.1511132147-22404018.1450823726(If you click on "I would like to give to a specific sport" you will see just "basketball.") I think this is a sin of omission and should put the caveat that funds to basketball will be shared equally or whatever the split is with the women. Transparency, plain and simple. Of course, the way around it is to just donate to football.   |
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