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Colgate
Dec 29, 2017 23:30:05 GMT -5
Post by hc87 on Dec 29, 2017 23:30:05 GMT -5
The "joke" is expecting relatively high-level D1 basketball while being a membah of the Patriot League. There is just no way you can establish a solid D1 level program whilst being a membah of this league. People can argue (and they have and will) that it can be done i.e. see Willard's HC teams or some Bucknell teams etc...but I'd countahargue that those were nice teams but really not very good D1 teams. Holy Cross basketball should be at a level near or approximating a level to where our long-time rivals/institutional peers (PC, BC, Villanova, Georgetown etc) are at, not competing against (and often losing) to schools like Colgate, Lafayette, American etc in basketball. Stop me if you've heard this one before
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 29, 2017 23:53:47 GMT -5
Wish we could.....
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 0:03:28 GMT -5
Post by hc87 on Dec 30, 2017 0:03:28 GMT -5
Respect you KY75, but do you think our loss to Colgate in basketball tonight made even a blip in Massachusetts' sports circles...nevah mind Nate Pine's national consciousness?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 30, 2017 0:03:30 GMT -5
Did we really only take seven free throws tonight? Jeez.
This program is headed in the wrong direction.
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 0:06:19 GMT -5
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 30, 2017 0:06:19 GMT -5
Indianhoop, you probably don't pay attention to them, but whether you want to believe it or not, Bucknell has been a legitimately good D1 team for a while now. They're a top 100 team this year, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if their next loss doesn't come until the NCAA Tournament. They're head and shoulders above everyone else in this league.
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Post by cfrivals on Dec 30, 2017 0:08:23 GMT -5
Agreed , RW teams were ok talent wise, BUT WERE COACHED MUCH BETTER THAN OUR PLAYERS TODAY ARE!!! “The sum is greater Than the parts” anyone remember that! He made mediocre players better.
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 0:10:34 GMT -5
Post by hc87 on Dec 30, 2017 0:10:34 GMT -5
They are a nice team (and have been the last 20 years)....let's not put them on a program-level of a PC, Villanova, Georgetown etc...they are also an outlier in the PL....the PL itself is a very low -level D1 league in hoop.
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 1:17:45 GMT -5
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 30, 2017 1:17:45 GMT -5
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 5:18:58 GMT -5
Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 30, 2017 5:18:58 GMT -5
I'll keep repeating - I can understand questioning the coaching (I don't get the defensive strategy), but to start to write off the freshmen already is nuts to me. . It was CBC who threw the frosh under the bus I couldn't care less what coaches say- this coach, the prior coach, any coach. I'm speaking to "we need more talent" "the freshmen are slow" etc etc. What did people expect, Webber, Rose, Howard, King and Jackson?
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 7:19:42 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Dec 30, 2017 7:19:42 GMT -5
I’m having a hard time figuring out what the offense is trying to do. Why do we take so long to get the play started? Dribble hard to the top of the key and go. All these back court passes just inside half court and then the handoffs etc. back and forth like there’s no shot clot. JG, MF, AB, MZ, CL, CG, and to a degree KC and PB are all excellent 3 point shooters. As much as I hate to say it perhaps we should just commit to living or dying on the 3 ball like other teams seem to do. Run the picket fence at em, as they say in the movies.
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 7:45:08 GMT -5
Post by hcpride on Dec 30, 2017 7:45:08 GMT -5
Last year I watched a few b-ball games and all the football games and saw much back-and forth here at Crossports. It is within the realm of possibility that (in those two sports lately) we suffer from a lack of talent as well as uninspired coaching. Even those who have lowered their program ambitions to 'compete for a Patriot Championships' (whatever the heck that means) have got to be disappointed with the talent and coaching levels. That being said, a surplus in one of the two factors might help to prop up the other. Right now there is a surplus in neither. (We'll see what Chesney and staff can do next year on the football front.)
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 8:18:37 GMT -5
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Post by sader1998 on Dec 30, 2017 8:18:37 GMT -5
Imagine the (rightful) hue and cry on this board if not for a 5-game hot streak in March 2016?
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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 30, 2017 8:34:13 GMT -5
Imagine the (rightful) hue and cry on this board if not for a 5-game hot streak in March 2016? Thank you, EG. Thank you, RC. Thank you, MA.
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 8:49:58 GMT -5
Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 30, 2017 8:49:58 GMT -5
Did we really only take seven free throws tonight? Jeez. Holy Cross is currently ranked 344th in FTA/G - and only Sam Houston State and Jackson State make fewer FTs per game.
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Post by nhteamer on Dec 30, 2017 8:50:57 GMT -5
COLGATE I feel like puking
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 8:52:34 GMT -5
Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 30, 2017 8:52:34 GMT -5
Just to take a small step back from the precipice - RW lost three times to Colgate at home, with teams that were better than the current edition.
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Post by Tom on Dec 30, 2017 8:58:39 GMT -5
Agree with it all except the Ziggy factor 1-3 shooting, all beyond the arc, including a game ending heave - 2 rebounds - 5 assists - 1 foul, intentional at end of game to stop clock - zero turnovers - took a charge That's the objective stat line. Subjectively, I think he has been one of the better guys at rotating on D lately I think he is a little too gun shy about shooting. I agree that this isn't the stat line of a superstar, but by any fair standard, 70 is right that Ziggy is not "lost out there"
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 9:21:35 GMT -5
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ncaam likes this
Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 30, 2017 9:21:35 GMT -5
If Fr Boroughs cared about sports half as much as some claim, he would be holding Pine and Carmody accountable for this train wreck.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 30, 2017 9:44:34 GMT -5
I’m having a hard time figuring out what the offense is trying to do. Why do we take so long to get the play started? Holy Cross is ranked 349th in possessions per game - last year, also 349th. This is partially "baked in the cake" with Carmody's P.O., but probably exacerbated by the influence of Joe Scott (aka, "Mini-Me"). Here's where Scott's Denver teams ranked in this metric during his tenure there - not for nothing that he earned a reputation as the slowest coach in America. 15-16. 350th 14-15. 350th 13-14. 350th 12-13. 346th 11-12. 328th 10-11. 344th 09-10. 342nd 08-09. 342nd 07-08. 341st Not knocking the philosophy of his chosen pace or Scott, for that matter. - he was >.500 at Denver. But the nagging question I've had since he was hired - do you want your top guy on the staff to be one who thinks exactly the way you do, or do you want somebody who thinks a little differently and/or complements your weaknesses? Carmody and Scott, statistically, have been very similar (often virtually indistinguishable) as head coaches in measures like pace, rebounding, and defense. Having two guys whose approaches are identical has its advantages, but obvious disadvantages as well. Not advocating for a staff change at season's end, necessarily, but I think it would behoove Carmody to have somebody around who could help implement a different approach defensively and on the boards, as well as picking up the pace some at the offensive end.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 30, 2017 10:38:07 GMT -5
Stat-wise, the most glaring issues are:
Personal Fouls: we have committed 43 more fouls than opponents-- so that results in
Free Throws: Opponents are taking 6 more free throws per game and have connected at a high rate. We don't draw fouls, as others have noted, and we have a poor percentage as our second most frequent FT shooter, JF, has a very low percentage. Opponents can hack him at will in the belief that (A) he will miss his free throws and (B) they won't have to worry as much about the penalty situation as our other guys don't draw fouls (except KC)
Rebounds: Opponents grab 10 more rebounds per game than we do. That does not result in 10 more shots per game as our opponents have one more turnover per game and we commit those fouls and send them to the line . Opponents take only one more shot per game.
Surprising stat
HC has just about the 2PT FG percentage as opponents (.529 vs .533) . We had a bigger gap the two prior seasons and on this board we have often lamented our opponents 2 point shooting.
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 10:41:15 GMT -5
Post by rgs318 on Dec 30, 2017 10:41:15 GMT -5
This is so painful to see. The only school that has pi$$ed away more in terms of a real tradidition in D 1 hoops is NYU. The level we play at now is really only interesting to the hardest of hard-core fans. There were probably more people at the Brockton-Cardinal Spellman game tonight. It is what it is...but let's please not call it interesting/engaging. I think we're "trapped/stuck" in the PL for reasons that are institutional to the school itself....why we continue to take this seriously and pay a coach near a half million dollars a year to do so is increasingly laughable. No surprises here. If you are really indifferent to HC basketball, can you please stop posting the same thing over and over until that changes? Coach's salary? Would paying our coach less make any of these loss better for you? Also, I know you like and follow high school hoops (as I do), but I would like to file your frequent observations about attendance at high school games in the "who cares" file. The Patriot League had nothing to do with this loss, except in your mind. The young players are developing and most of those who have watch them as them come along agree with that. It was said early on that this year would require patience as the young team developed. Try it. S to rebounding, after letting Colgate outrebound them early on by 10 (19-9 was terrible), the rebounds were even for the rest of the game (did you notice)?
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 10:43:12 GMT -5
Post by crusader1970 on Dec 30, 2017 10:43:12 GMT -5
This is so painful to see. The only school that has pi$$ed away more in terms of a real tradidition in D 1 hoops is NYU. DePaul and Fordham are up there too.
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 10:46:21 GMT -5
Post by rgs318 on Dec 30, 2017 10:46:21 GMT -5
. It was CBC who threw the frosh under the bus I couldn't care less what coaches say- this coach, the prior coach, any coach. I'm speaking to "we need more talent" "the freshmen are slow" etc etc. What did people expect, Webber, Rose, Howard, King and Jackson? I am impressed with the insight that "we need to recruit better players." It is sad that posters believe (if they really do) that the coaches do not know this. Perhaps those of you who post this comment (repeatedly) can communicate it directly to the coaches. It could be most helpful to tell them something that every coach (at HC and at every other college in the country) has known for most of their lives...recruit the best players you can and your job as a coach will be easier. Let us know their reaction.
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Colgate
Dec 30, 2017 10:49:24 GMT -5
Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 30, 2017 10:49:24 GMT -5
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 30, 2017 11:01:02 GMT -5
The level we play at now is really only interesting to the hardest of hard-core fans. There were probably more people at the Brockton-Cardinal Spellman game tonight. It is what it is...but let's please not call it interesting/engaging. I think we're "trapped/stuck" in the PL for reasons that are institutional to the school itself....why we continue to take this seriously and pay a coach near a half million dollars a year to do so is increasingly laughable. after letting Colgate outrebound them early on by 10 (19-9 was terrible), the rebounds were even for the rest of the game (did you notice)? Haha!
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