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Post by ncaam on Apr 30, 2018 11:23:31 GMT -5
Echo chamber is a left wing smear. Please stop using it. Democracy has failed at HC on the Crusader issue plain and simple.
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Post by crusader12 on Apr 30, 2018 11:37:45 GMT -5
Do not mean to piss in anybody's Wheaties on a Sunday morning but I found this comment shared by a student with me recently to be of interest. As stated by a professor at Holy Cross: "Well, at least we got them to do away with the image of the Crusader. Hopefully we can come back in 4 to 5 years and have them do away with the name as well." Unbelievable. This school is completely off the rails.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Apr 30, 2018 11:39:59 GMT -5
If you stand for everything, you stand for nothing. If we pander to the masses, then our opinions and passions and guiding principles are as light and airy as the breeze that carries the next wave of criticisms. People can be offended. I wouldn't dare to put myself in the shoes of someone who the original crusaders warred against, or discriminated against, or raped, or pillaged. Clearly, there are many of those folks on campus today to have been driven by such offense to pester the College administration to consider dropping the mascot and the moniker.
I just find it highly improbable, if not impressive, that the College was able to identify AND hire a group of professors that had all been directly impacted in a negative sense these activities of the Crusades some thousand or so years ago. It's also highly improbably and amusing that the affected of the Crusades chose a common career, that is, college professor! Perhaps the crusades weren't all bad... they pushed this select group of folks to choose higher education as a calling, and serve alma mater!
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 30, 2018 12:37:07 GMT -5
Still have not time to totally digest mm67 post but I must chime in here.
We should NOT make an assumption about anyone or group of posters here or the faculty as a whole and I am not sure most people have.
My gripe is with the 40+ faculty who signed a letter (petition, perhaps?) strongly suggesting that the Crusader should be jettisoned. That number is a minority within the faculty community. I have heard during the open discussion both in person and on-line from some of those faculty members. They (the ones the I heard) clearly stated they are NOT Catholic but, of course, have no problem working at a Catholic college except they want to change its symbol(s). The statement that td128 posted about wanting to change the name of the school next was very consistent with the faculty that I heard, though they did not state that specifically during the forums.
My point is that I have no objection whatever to a non-Catholic professor at HC. Great to have diversity of opinion. However, I also don't think they should be looking to change the basis of the college and, yes, to me the Crusader represented that. If they have such a strong objection, they have the freedom to move on and teach somewhere else. But, they choose not to do that.
When we used to discuss politics here, many would think I was a "liberal." The reality, at least in my self-image, is that I am a political moderate but admittedly, a religious conservative. If one were lumping people into groups, that would seem to be impossible. It is not.
"Snowflake" is certainly intended as a pejorative. But I don't recall anyone pointing fingers at any individual here recently using that epithet.
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Post by hc87 on Apr 30, 2018 12:43:36 GMT -5
Yahoo sports still uses the crusader-knights as a logo...ESPN goes with the HC shield.
It is interesting to think of all the merchandise, signage etc that will have to be expunged.
When I was first at Dartmouth High in the early 1990s, there were still Dartmouth College guys who would still inquire about getting Dartmouth Indians merchandise.
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Post by td128 on Apr 30, 2018 13:01:21 GMT -5
In regard to the phrase "doing away with the name", I should have been more explicit that I understood that to mean doing away with the name "Crusader" not the name of the college itself. Although I guess, this whole topic does go back to the point raised by Frank V in one of those forums, "where does it end?"
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Post by joutsHC77 on Apr 30, 2018 13:46:30 GMT -5
Yes, it ends when the name Holy Cross is expunged also.
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Post by Ignutz on Apr 30, 2018 15:12:46 GMT -5
Out of respect for all I will add some more commentary. "Snowflakes" Ignutz 17 hours ago. you can look it up. Also the terms were used during the height of the upset over the Crusader & Prof. Liew. Look folks I too was shocked, disgusted and dismayed by the prof's writings.( I also believe without proof(OK my friend RGS318?) that the Fenwick Review and its moderator did have an agenda by releasing these little known, long ago writings. The moderator admitted his concern about the "infiltration" of pro- LBGT attitudes in many areas of academia.) I suspect by now most students have moved on as the guys are chasing grades and girls and, likewise the girls are chasing grades and... Whoops, maybe I'm being "PC" as we don't know who is chasing who anymore. It is a confusing and at times difficult world for this old Crusader. OK? Hope you all appreciate my sense of irony. Quite simply I am very uncomfortable with personal attacks on the integrity of those with whom we may disagree. Argue the point, sharp elbows and all.(OK RGS318?) sader 1970 once again you are the intelligent voice of reason. I stand corrected. I should never have stated that pollsters were not aware of differing opinions but... OK. Certainly I meant no insult to any of my fellow alums. Again sader1970 you did provide a fact based analysis of some profs. desire to change the symbols (Crucifixes?) and name of our beloved HC. I can't believe that a majority of the faculty would go down this rabbit hole. And it ain't gonna happen! I'm gettin' in a Clint Eastwood mode about this "Go ahead, make my day." Look, liberal, conservative these are names that in my view have no place on this exalted board. No name calling here from the right (PC, Snowflake or left (racist fascist, etc.). By the way I was not aware that term "echo chamber" was a left wing smear. I'll be sure not to use it here. In my not so humble opinion HC has other issues that many have brought up on this board. Are our lousy teams the"canary in the coal mine" which show the unattractiveness of our school in the current climate, the problem of sliding academics(I just truly don't care about Villanova. They should prosper, too.); the evident stagnation of our school in so many areas; the issues of Catholic identity in our ever increasing secular world; the overarching need for money . And there are other issues, too. We are all adults in this room and while we may disagree which I think is incredibly stimulating(No names nor personal attacks, please, just stick to differences on issues.), nonetheless we are all united in our love for HC. I think that we should all (especially me) act with the realization of our shared love of the Cross. I'll say it again, the Cross, our beautiful, loving College Of The Holy Cross. We are united over different times, with different experiences, different views but united nonetheless by our love for our alma mater. Love HC Lighten up, Francis.
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Post by Ignutz on Apr 30, 2018 16:13:07 GMT -5
How did you know that my name is Francis? That's much more appropriate than the pejorative, "snowflake". Stay well. Peace
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Post by HC92 on Apr 30, 2018 16:20:58 GMT -5
Out of respect for all I will add some more commentary. "Snowflakes" Ignutz 17 hours ago. you can look it up. Also the terms were used during the height of the upset over the Crusader & Prof. Liew. Look folks I too was shocked, disgusted and dismayed by the prof's writings.( I also believe without proof(OK my friend RGS318?) that the Fenwick Review and its moderator did have an agenda by releasing these little known, long ago writings. The moderator admitted his concern about the "infiltration" of pro- LBGT attitudes in many areas of academia.) I suspect by now most students have moved on as the guys are chasing grades and girls and, likewise the girls are chasing grades and... Whoops, maybe I'm being "PC" as we don't know who is chasing who anymore. It is a confusing and at times difficult world for this old Crusader. OK? Hope you all appreciate my sense of irony. Quite simply I am very uncomfortable with personal attacks on the integrity of those with whom we may disagree. Argue the point, sharp elbows and all.(OK RGS318?) sader 1970 once again you are the intelligent voice of reason. I stand corrected. I should never have stated that pollsters were not aware of differing opinions but... OK. Certainly I meant no insult to any of my fellow alums. Again sader1970 you did provide a fact based analysis of some profs. desire to change the symbols (Crucifixes?) and name of our beloved HC. I can't believe that a majority of the faculty would go down this rabbit hole. And it ain't gonna happen! I'm gettin' in a Clint Eastwood mode about this "Go ahead, make my day." Look, liberal, conservative these are names that in my view have no place on this exalted board. No name calling here from the right (PC, Snowflake or left (racist fascist, etc.). By the way I was not aware that term "echo chamber" was a left wing smear. I'll be sure not to use it here. In my not so humble opinion HC has other issues that many have brought up on this board. Are our lousy teams the"canary in the coal mine" which show the unattractiveness of our school in the current climate, the problem of sliding academics(I just truly don't care about Villanova. They should prosper, too.); the evident stagnation of our school in so many areas; the issues of Catholic identity in our ever increasing secular world; the overarching need for money . And there are other issues, too. We are all adults in this room and while we may disagree which I think is incredibly stimulating(No names nor personal attacks, please, just stick to differences on issues.), nonetheless we are all united in our love for HC. I think that we should all (especially me) act with the realization of our shared love of the Cross. I'll say it again, the Cross, our beautiful, loving College Of The Holy Cross. We are united over different times, with different experiences, different views but united nonetheless by our love for our alma mater. Love HC Lighten up, Francis.
His friends call him Psycho.
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Post by hc87 on Apr 30, 2018 16:31:36 GMT -5
His friends call him Psycho. Just don't touch any of his stuff...
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Post by CHC8485 on Apr 30, 2018 21:00:23 GMT -5
mm67
They were all joking, referencing this scene from the movie Stripes including the original lighten up Francis comment.
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