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Post by hchoops on Jun 12, 2018 17:10:09 GMT -5
good news, bad news
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 12, 2018 18:21:16 GMT -5
Crowd size increased in Carmody's first year - after a steady eight-year slide - then got a little pop off the PLTC, before dropping again last season.
Attendance during the Willard years peaked at 3,274 in 2003-04. It's half that now, and the average attendance during Carmody's three seasons is a bit lower than it was during Milan Brown's first three years.
06-07 3,044
07-08 2,597
08-09 2,404
09-10 2,196
10-11 1,830
11-12 1,821
12-13 1,517
13-14 1,406
14-15 1,370
15-16 1,612
16-17 1,797
17-18 1,641
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Post by trimster on Jun 12, 2018 19:54:22 GMT -5
It's clear the Willard era was an aberration since the move to the PL for all sports. I can't believe someone is trumpeting an average attendance of 1,641 as an accomplishment.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 12, 2018 20:23:24 GMT -5
Not great by any means...but, over half of the PL was looking up at that number over the last three years, wishing they had it.
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Post by thecrossisback on Jun 12, 2018 20:33:16 GMT -5
They would get more home attendance with more games at DCU against quality opponents.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 12, 2018 20:35:54 GMT -5
You make it sound as if almost no one comes to see HC...only our opponents. If true, that is indeed sad.
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Post by bison137 on Jun 12, 2018 20:47:54 GMT -5
It's clear the Willard era was an aberration since the move to the PL for all sports. I can't believe someone is trumpeting an average attendance of 1,641 as an accomplishment. Average attendance for the six years just before joining the PL was 1862 - MAAC years. Decline began at the same time as the move to the MAAC. |
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Post by hc87 on Jun 12, 2018 20:53:00 GMT -5
The Hockomock League outdraws the Patriot League some nights.....
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Post by southernsader on Jun 12, 2018 20:54:22 GMT -5
Thank God we got out of the MAAC.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 12, 2018 21:37:36 GMT -5
Seems pretty simple to me. Start winning again and the Hart will be hopping and packed. Winning begets winning. I have hope that we have the nucleus of a solid team and will be regular winners as the experience level increases. With the LAC a reality, my expectations are rising as to the level of recruits we can land.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 12, 2018 22:26:51 GMT -5
Let's break 2,000 per game this next season as this young team shows marked improvement on the court
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Post by lou on Jun 13, 2018 7:32:37 GMT -5
It seems we had more students come to games around the Willard years. I know this is a universal issue but it may account for some of our numbers, and don't know whether that will ever improve
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Post by hchoops on Jun 13, 2018 7:35:23 GMT -5
With wins it will improve
How much is questionable
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 13, 2018 8:25:14 GMT -5
The trend in Bucknell's attendance figures may be instructive. Pretty well correlated with on-court success (with Sojka's help), but not so much as in the past.
1. After several ho-hum seasons, took a big leap forward in 2004-05 (Sojka's second season)
2. Another big increase to watch the great 05-06 team, Crowds were 2 1/2 times as big as in 02-03.
3. Still flush with success, drew well for a poor 07-08 team - then dropped significantly for the 7-23 club the following year. (but still much better than 02-03)
4. Back over 3,000 per by 10-11 and holding for the Muscala era.
5. Dropped below 3,000 in 13-14, and has stalled out since. Even with high-quality teams, now drawing 30% less than peak of 3,700 in 05-06.
Bucknell Home Attendance since 2001-02 (W-L in parens)
01-02. 1,500 (13-16)
02-03. 1,742 (14-15)
03-04. 1,578 (14-15)
04-05. 2,403 (23-10)
05-06. 3,706 (26-6)
06-07. 3,668 (22-9)
07-08. 3,399 (12-19)
08-09. 2,509 (7-23)
09-10. 2,514 (14-17)
10-11. 3,191 (25-9)
11-12. 3,169 (25-10)
12-13. 3,239 (28-6)
13-14. 2,826 (16-14)
14-15. 2,867 (19-15)
15-16. 2,770 (17-14)
16-17. 2,529 (26-9)
17-18. 2,668 (25-10)
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Post by bigfan on Jun 13, 2018 8:38:29 GMT -5
Play three games every year at the DCU against quality opponents and you will also see increased attendance at the Hart Center. The home schedule
that we have will never increase attendance. Even the students stay in their dorms, the schedule has to change.
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Post by cmo on Jun 13, 2018 8:44:06 GMT -5
Hopefully Chesney entices the football team to come a couple of times as well
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 13, 2018 9:32:28 GMT -5
The trend in Bucknell's attendance figures may be instructive. Pretty well correlated with on-court success (with Sojka's help), but not so much as in the past. 1. After several ho-hum seasons, took a big leap forward in 2004-05 (Sojka's second season) 2. Another big increase to watch the great 05-06 team, Crowds were 2 1/2 times as big as in 02-03. 3. Still flush with success, drew well for a poor 07-08 team - then dropped significantly for the 7-23 club the following year. (but still much better than 02-03) 4. Back over 3,000 per by 10-11 and holding for the Muscala era. 5. Dropped below 3,000 in 13-14, and has stalled out since. Even with high-quality teams, now drawing 30% less than peak of 3,700 in 05-06.Bucknell Home Attendance since 2001-02 (W-L in parens) 01-02. 1,500 (13-16) 02-03. 1,742 (14-15) 03-04. 1,578 (14-15) 04-05. 2,403 (23-10) 05-06. 3,706 (26-6) 06-07. 3,668 (22-9) 07-08. 3,399 (12-19) 08-09. 2,509 (7-23) 09-10. 2,514 (14-17) 10-11. 3,191 (25-9) 11-12. 3,169 (25-10) 12-13. 3,239 (28-6) 13-14. 2,826 (16-14) 14-15. 2,867 (19-15) 15-16. 2,770 (17-14) 16-17. 2,529 (26-9) 17-18. 2,668 (25-10) In reference to point number 5, one of my guesses is that the total lack of a challenger for league dominance has dulled that figure a bit -- not as much juice behind league games when Holy Cross, Lehigh and American are all down. I haven't analyzed their more recent schedules but I do remember the Bison always seem to manage at least one big-ticket OOC home game every year. Wake Forest, Richmond and I believe LaSalle all came to Sojka at some point since I started college in 06-07. Maybe a couple more that I'm forgetting. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 13, 2018 9:47:49 GMT -5
It seems we had more students come to games around the Willard years. I know this is a universal issue but it may account for some of our numbers, and don't know whether that will ever improve The student attendance at games between Willard era and today is night and day. Other than the obvious answer which is a prolonged lack of success, there are a couple other reasons that I believe contribute:
1) Longer holiday breaks -- students don't return until AFTER MLK Day now if I'm not mistaken. 2) Lack of quality OOC home games during times in which students are not on break. Many seasons since I graduated that the November/December slate is a yawner. No more Fairfield, Siena or St. Joe's. These games have been replaced by Quinnipiac, UNH, Maine and the like. 3) Lack of any feeling rivalry, which is also a side effect of our prolonged lack of being unsuccessful. Contests against Bucknell and American used to have the feel of rivalry games during the time I was in school. No more.
Probably one of the biggest signs that we've been stuck in the mud in terms of student basketball attendance is the fact that students now consider us a "hockey school" and these games are now well attended than hoops. I'll take increased hockey attendance any day as I am a big supporter of that program as well, but the reason behind this change is kind of sad given the fact that the hockey team has not been any more successful lately than they were when I was in school. My freshman year, we were coming off the Minnesota win with numerous returning contributors but NO ONE went to hockey games. The shift is completely precipitated by lack of interest in the performance of the men's basketball team.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 13, 2018 10:13:41 GMT -5
It seems we had more students come to games around the Willard years. I know this is a universal issue but it may account for some of our numbers, and don't know whether that will ever improve The student attendance at games between Willard era and today is night and day. Other than the obvious answer which is a prolonged lack of success, there are a couple other reasons that I believe contribute:
1) Longer holiday breaks -- students don't return until AFTER MLK Day now if I'm not mistaken. 2) Lack of quality OOC home games during times in which students are not on break. Many seasons since I graduated that the November/December slate is a yawner. No more Fairfield, Siena or St. Joe's. These games have been replaced by Quinnipiac, UNH, Maine and the like. 3) Lack of any feeling rivalry, which is also a side effect of our prolonged lack of being unsuccessful. Contests against Bucknell and American used to have the feel of rivalry games during the time I was in school. No more.
Probably one of the biggest signs that we've been stuck in the mud in terms of student basketball attendance is the fact that students now consider us a "hockey school" and these games are now well attended than hoops. I'll take increased hockey attendance any day as I am a big supporter of that program as well, but the reason behind this change is kind of sad given the fact that the hockey team has not been any more successful lately than they were when I was in school. My freshman year, we were coming off the Minnesota win with numerous returning contributors but NO ONE went to hockey games. The shift is completely precipitated by lack of interest in the performance of the men's basketball team.
1) Agree across the board on this post ny, with the exception that Fairfield & Siena don't move the needle among locals (and students neither). "Name" schools - even if they are not any good at the time - is what draws casual local fans.
2) You are absolutely correct on students interest in hockey. Regularly draws the most students of any sport on campus by a significant amount.
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Post by hc87 on Jun 13, 2018 10:27:55 GMT -5
We could've, should've been "Wisstah's PC" but decided not to go into the entertainment biz....I highly doubt we draw very well at the Hart regardless of how successful we are moving forward.
Too many current students are involved in their own sport, many of the non-playing students don't really care about attending games at Hart or Fitton. Not that their attendance at either (500? generously) really move the needle too much at either venue.
Locals, save for some of the hard-core here, have mostly moved on (or have left this mortal coil) and don't bother attending basketball games against the likes of Colgate, Maine, Sacred Heart etc
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Post by bison137 on Jun 13, 2018 10:45:41 GMT -5
One major thing is that student turnout at almost every northeastern midmajor has declined, often dramatically. As an example, even with Bucknell's decline in attendance it is still fourth among all northeastern midmajors. It trails Siena badly, but Siena is a unique situation. Also trails Stony Brook and Penn by a fairly small amount. By my count, there are 51 schools in that category - the five leagues plus Hofstra, Northeastern, and Drexel. Only one school out of the 51 averaged more than 3200 per game.
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Post by bikeman on Jun 13, 2018 11:21:10 GMT -5
HC of the PL plays BC at the DCU. Crowd 2-4000. HC of the Big East plays BC at the DCU, crowd 6000+. Why? More season tickets sold.
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Post by bikeman on Jun 13, 2018 11:23:10 GMT -5
To have consistently larger crowds, you must sell more season tickets. Isn't going to happen while mired in the PL.
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Post by rickii on Jun 13, 2018 11:31:11 GMT -5
What a depressing thread....
The LAC is/was about 15 - 20 years late in coming. Double digit years of facilities neglect and athletic indifference have dug a very deep hole of a horrid losing culture among students and way too many alums.
Turning this whole profile around will take several years, a lot of patience and a lot of luck.
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Post by joe on Jun 13, 2018 11:57:18 GMT -5
You get what you've earned. HC competes in an irrelevant conference and is mediocre to boot. 97 million bucks into the LAC and you can't even get a decent hot dog at a basketball game, are still sitting on bleachers, and not enjoying a video board. Give me a break. Day to day students seem to be almost always on vacation during poorly scheduled home games and are totally apathetic when they do come (except football team). Home games are all against crappy opponents except maybe Harvard. 1-2k? We're lucky to get the crowds we get. If we want crowds, the DCU should be HC's home court within the BE basketball conference. Period. Anything else is a non-starter. Low major D1 is worse than high level D3 as far as I'm concerned.
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