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Post by CHC8485 on Aug 29, 2018 8:08:40 GMT -5
Do Lehigh/Lafayette, Army/Navy, Michigan/Ohio State, Harvard/Yale, etc. care only about football? Certainly football is the biggest component but a rivalry has to extend beyond football.
Fordham fits the bill on football, but a real rivalry needs to be felt in and competed through other sports as well.
When we dropped BC in football, talk on campus (and I heard it from administrators) was to have Colgate replace BC as the final game each year. Don't know why it did not happen, but that idea worked for me then and works for me now.
Have said it before, extend it to all teams - last game (or nearly last game), every sport, every year. In other words, every team will likely be playing a game that could impact league standings for one team or the other or both toward the end of the season increasing the stakes of that game organically - not with a manufactured trophy (though I respect the attempt to do the same with the Turnpike Trophy).
Give it a try for 5-6 years and see what happens. It can not be worse or less intersting than what we've been doing for 25+ years.
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Post by southernsader on Aug 29, 2018 8:09:59 GMT -5
Do Lehigh/Lafayette, Army/Navy, Michigan/Ohio State, Harvard/Yale, etc. care only about football? Certainly football is the biggest component but a rivalry has to extend beyond football. Fordham fits the bill on football, but a real rivalry needs to be felt in and competed through other sports as well. When we dropped BC in football, talk on campus (and I heard it from administrators) was to have Colgate replace BC as the final game each year. Don't know why it did not happen, but that idea worked for me then and works for me now. Have said it before, extend it to all teams - last game (or nearly last game), every sport, every year. In other words, every team will likely be playing a game that could impact league standings for one team or the other or both toward the end of the season increasing the stakes of that game organically - not with a manufactured trophy (though I respect the attempt to do the same with the Turnpike Trophy). Give it a try for 5-6 years and see what happens. It can not be worse or less intersting than what we've been doing for 25+ years. Amen.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 29, 2018 8:29:55 GMT -5
So Colgate is a better option than Fordham because we play them in basketball games that nobody cares about?
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 29, 2018 8:33:45 GMT -5
8485, you had me up until you brought up the Turnpike Trophy. I have no use for that other than I love alliteration. To be a rival, there must be at least a modicum of competitiveness and this just cannot exist given the disparity of school sizes.
There are valid points in the argument for both Colgate and Fordham. Colgate, despite the great distance is probably the closest to HC in terms of enrollment and academics and history.
Fordham is closer, Jesuit and many HC alums go to Fordham for grad and law school. And a lot more alums live in metro NYC than central NY.
I’d give Fordham the edge for sure if they went full PL but that won’t happen.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 29, 2018 8:35:49 GMT -5
The Colgate grads I know, and it is more than just one or two, think of Cornell as their academic, athletic and social rival. The relative geographic proximity (90 miles or so), large applicant overlap, and emphasis socially on Greek life most likely play a part too. Obviously, they do play in different leagues while very frequently playing against each other (99 times in football alone) and Cornell grads may or may not consider Colgate to be a rival. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgate–Cornell_football_rivalry They (the Colgate grads I know) don't see Holy Cross as particularly similar to their secular upstate school and I think similarity plays a very large part in building/sustaining rivalries (as in Lehigh/Lafayette, Army/Navy, Michigan/Ohio State, Harvard/Yale etc.) For football purposes, Fordham seems best suited (by far) as the HC rival. Overall, I think the days of the wacky mascot-stealing and boffo cheers from the crowd at HC are in the distant past.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 29, 2018 8:40:58 GMT -5
Of course your friends think of Cornell. That’s because there is no current rivalry. The point other posters are making is to create an environment where a rivalry can develop- i.e. last game of the season in every sport.
Bet Fordham doesn’t think we are rivals either.
And to hammer home my prior point, I bet BU doesn’t think we are rivals either despite the “trophy.”
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 29, 2018 9:34:47 GMT -5
LOL An entertaining thread.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 29, 2018 9:51:34 GMT -5
If Colgate has a very good season and seals PL championship in its final league game v Lehigh, things get very interesting for them. Instead of moving straight to the FCS playoffs, they play what is likely to be a pretty strong West Point and then move to the playoffs.
I know every single PL team does not finish up with a PL game every single year (although that is certainly the norm) , but West Point is a very tough game to play (IMHO) prior to playing the first round FCS game.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 29, 2018 9:58:57 GMT -5
That is only 1 scenario. The other has HC moving on.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 29, 2018 10:07:26 GMT -5
That is only 1 scenario. The other has HC moving on. Yes, we'd clinch by beating Georgetown and we'd play the very next game v a FCS playoff foe. (Or Georgetown clinches v us and their next game is a FCS playoff foe)
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 29, 2018 10:10:55 GMT -5
Not sure there will be any time, but it sure is too early to be thinking about the final weeks of the season for Colgate, Georgetown or anyone else besides possibly Holy Cross, where I spent a wonderful 4 years.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 29, 2018 10:11:29 GMT -5
That is only 1 scenario. The other has HC moving on. Yes, we'd clinch by beating Georgetown and we'd play the very next game v a FCS playoff foe. (Or Georgetown clinches v us and their next game is a FCS playoff foe) That is scenario 2001, a Space Odyssey
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 29, 2018 10:36:27 GMT -5
sooner-- and I am not referring to OU
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Post by richh on Aug 29, 2018 13:31:37 GMT -5
With 'Gate and H.C. facing UNH and BC respectively in the week following this game, calling the dogs off by midway in the 3rd qtr., under normal circumstances, would be an option for either team. If either team is up by more than two scores at this juncture, either team has the luxury of selectively pulling its starters. Head Coach Hunt watched this group of starters all of last season...he wants to keep them healthy. At this point in the game, Colgate has the luxury of unleashing the 3-headed running back monster ( 210, 205, 210 lbs ) for the rest of the game to pound the D and the clock. Last year, this 'Gate group managed a significant T.O.P. advantage ( 33:52 vs. 26:08 ) at a 4.8 yds/run clip vs HC's 2.7. Hunt sounds excited that straight A student athlete soph QB Brenemann can absorb wrinkles to the read option as quickly as the coaching staff can install them. As a frosh Bernnemann threw only 5 interceptions on the season. That could make Brenemann and the 'Gate O hard to defend: a read-option dual threat. But why showcase these new wrinkles for UNH film if they're not needed to register a W. If Hunt doesn't need to show what's under 'Gate's playbook kimono until UNH, 'Gate fandom can defer their gratification gracefully...nothing to prove. So as soon as 'Gate can achieve separation in the score, the more the HC faithful will feel like they're watching a boring PL revival of Woody Hayes' "cloud of dust." Gate has been running the same O for years. That Brennemann is getting more of that O in his soph year will not surprise any team that has played Gate before.
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Post by CHC8485 on Aug 29, 2018 14:00:48 GMT -5
8485, you had me up until you brought up the Turnpike Trophy. I have no use for that other than I love alliteration. To be a rival, there must be at least a modicum of competitiveness and this just cannot exist given the disparity of school sizes. Re-read my post. Was not suggesting that the TT was a way to grow a rivalry. I respect them doing SOMETHING to TRY to build a rivalry, but do think it comes up way short, especially given the size discrepancies between the schools and where each school’s athletic program was when it was established.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 29, 2018 14:10:41 GMT -5
No need to re-read your post. I understood it the first time. My point is simply an attempt at creating a rivalry with BU is ludicrous. I give them no credit for what is a wasted and counter-productive effort. And what does Torey Thomas have anything to do with this thread?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Aug 29, 2018 15:38:41 GMT -5
The Turnpike Trophy was a creation of a long gone HC marketing guy, who was not from the area, and not overly familiar with differences between the 2 schools, but as 8485 notes tried to do something.
Trust me - it's about the last thing the HC athletics dept. is concerned with at the moment, and what's the harm other than pissing off the usual suspects in this forum.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 29, 2018 18:44:35 GMT -5
I guess that makes me Keyser Söze.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 29, 2018 21:22:23 GMT -5
The Turnpike Trophy was a creation of a long gone HC marketing guy, who was not from the area, and not overly familiar with differences between the 2 schools, but as 8485 notes tried to do something. Trust me - it's about the last thing the HC athletics dept. is concerned with at the moment, and what's the harm other than pissing off the usual suspects in this forum. Too funny. Did you buy the bridge too? “Given the close proximity of our two schools, it is natural for a rivalry to develop between Holy Cross and Boston University,” Holy Cross director of athletics Nathan Pine said. “This rivalry has intensified since the Terriers joined the Patriot League, and now I expect the Turnpike Trophy will take it to a whole new level. Alumni, parents, students and fans will never have to travel far to see these outstanding match-ups, and our student-athletes and coaches are already looking forward to the opportunity to win the inaugural presentation of the trophy.”www.goholycross.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=33100&ATCLID=210267387Perhaps if Pine was able to generate some retention of the staff, he wouldn’t need to keep hiring all these silly guys who feed him the bad ideas!
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Aug 29, 2018 21:42:15 GMT -5
Too bad the previous 10:30am-3pm with a 2 hr lunch break athletic regime never came up with any ideas, let alone a better idea.
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Post by hc87 on Aug 29, 2018 21:55:02 GMT -5
Pine has a tough job....some of the alumni/fans (fewer by the day) in his ear remember when HC was an actual national basketball power and had a football program that wasn't the joke it has become ovah the last 25 years, most under 50 or so and many in O'Kane/Fenwick have no institutional memory of this....conflicting voices are speaking to him.
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Post by gks on Aug 30, 2018 6:46:32 GMT -5
Turnpike trophy would make much more sense if BU still had football and they played each other in hockey yearly...
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Post by joe on Aug 30, 2018 7:13:00 GMT -5
How's the TPT going? Seemed to me like all of about 12 fans showed up in Boston for the BU vs HC basketball iteration of it last Winter. The TPT is something that was clearly well-intentioned but clearly a minor swing and a miss by the admin. My opinion - keep it, apologize to no one, just keep it de-emphasized, as it is a waste of resources to devote any time or money to it. Agree that if hockey gets it's act together and starts playing BU annually it may be able to gain a little traction. Much bigger fish to fry at this juncture.
Love me some 2 hour lunches by the way.
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Post by rickii on Aug 30, 2018 11:08:43 GMT -5
Too bad the previous 10:30am-3pm with a 2 hr lunch break athletic regime never came up with any ideas, let alone a better idea. BINGO !
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Post by rickii on Aug 30, 2018 11:15:13 GMT -5
Pine has a tough job....some of the alumni/fans (fewer by the day) in his ear remember when HC was an actual national basketball power and had a football program that wasn't the joke it has become ovah the last 25 years, most under 50 or so and many in O'Kane/Fenwick have no institutional memory of this....conflicting voices are speaking to him. Conflicting voices have purposely been shoved aside over the past 2-3 years.
Pine inherited a colossal institutional and cultural mess when hired but he has indeed made progress.
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