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Post by hchoops on Sept 23, 2018 12:22:46 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 23, 2018 13:12:17 GMT -5
Wilt 8th?
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Post by hchoops on Sept 23, 2018 13:42:07 GMT -5
I agree with that rank he was always out for stats over wins |
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Post by possum on Sept 24, 2018 13:55:20 GMT -5
Any ranking that has Russell at 4 is bogus. 11 out of 13 championships with one of the losses coming in the finals which was tied at 2 games when Russell went out with an injury, 11-0 in seventh games, won the championship three times when Celtics didn't even win their division, last two championships won with clearly inferior teams in 68 finished 8 games behind defending champion 76ers then came from 3-1 down to beat them in playoffs, in 69 finished 4th in their conference then beat Lakers with West Baylor and Chamberlain on road in game 7. Russell was not a stats guy but did whatever was necessary to win.
Jordan never won with a team that was not clearly the leagues best.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 24, 2018 14:17:11 GMT -5
The best winner is not necessarily the best player.
Russell is by far the best winner
Jordan and the Big O are the best players
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Post by possum on Sept 24, 2018 15:13:24 GMT -5
Why then did Russell always win if he wasn't the best player? Chamberlain may have scored 50 points in a game against Russell but when the game was on the line Russell shut him down and his team won. What is a greater indicator of a players value winning or stats.
I agree that Robertson is far too low in this ranking but despite all his stats he won one title and that was on the coat tails of Jabbar.
In my opinion Jordan is the only player that could be considered with Russell as his skills also translated into wins and titles.
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Post by Tom on Sept 24, 2018 15:38:07 GMT -5
Any ranking that has Russell at 4 is bogus. 11 out of 13 championships with one of the losses coming in the finals which was tied at 2 games when Russell went out with an injury, 11-0 in seventh games, won the championship three times when Celtics didn't even win their division, last two championships won with clearly inferior teams in 68 finished 8 games behind defending champion 76ers then came from 3-1 down to beat them in playoffs, in 69 finished 4th in their conference then beat Lakers with West Baylor and Chamberlain on road in game 7. Russell was not a stats guy but did whatever was necessary to win. Jordan never won with a team that was not clearly the leagues best. I believe he was playing and eliminated twice going back to his junior year in high school. 1967 they didn't win. Then in 1954 USF didn't even qualify for the tournament. As stated above, he wasn't on the floor to be eliminated in 1958. Basically, when he was on the court, his team, be it high school, college, olympic, or NBA, won |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 24, 2018 15:50:41 GMT -5
I'm sure it's available somewhere--I'd love to see the comparative stats (beyond the W-L) between Russell and Chamberlain when they went head to head for the 10 years their careers overlapped. Did Russell really "shut down" Wilt?
If winning is the best way to judge players then I guess Hector Lopez was a better baseball player than Ted Williams....
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Post by possum on Sept 24, 2018 17:14:23 GMT -5
KY I guess you're a stat man, sure Chamberlain had much better stats than Russell but it's a team game not one on one and Russell more often than not did enough when it mattered to get the win. Russell not only beat Chamberlain when he had superior talent on his team but also beat him when Chamberlain had better talent.
I guess you'd be an Arod over Jeter guy because he has better stats, but I don't think baseball is a good comparison because it's much more of an individual game than basketball.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 25, 2018 7:18:23 GMT -5
Having had a chance to see both Wilt and Russell many times, if I had to pick one it would be Russell. He always made the players around him better. The same was not as true of Wilt. Both are clearly all-time greats, but I would give the nod to Russell.
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Post by Tom on Sept 25, 2018 8:17:48 GMT -5
I'm sure it's available somewhere--I'd love to see the comparative stats (beyond the W-L) between Russell and Chamberlain when they went head to head for the 10 years their careers overlapped. Did Russell really "shut down" Wilt? According to Heinsohn (who as a Crusader can obviously be taken at face value), Chamberlain would have 30 something through 3 quarters. Russell would turn it up a notch in the 4th and basically shut Wilt down. At the end of the day Chamberlain would walk off the court happy that he scored 35 and had a good game and Russell would walk off the court happy that the Celtics won. Per Heinsohn, Russell was playing a mind game on Chamberlain |
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 25, 2018 8:42:52 GMT -5
Suspect Tommy might have a slightly skewed view of things when one was a Celt and one was an opponent.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 25, 2018 8:44:32 GMT -5
from the games I saw, Tommy is pretty accurate
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Post by hchoops on Sept 26, 2018 12:26:23 GMT -5
We could have found a photo
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