|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 13, 2018 8:37:02 GMT -5
It dawned on me as my head hit the pillow late last night (this morning, actually) that the Harvard game came from the same script as the Colgate game. Fall behind, in this case 9-0, and dig ourselves into a hole that was just a tiny bit too deep to recover from. We've actually fell behind every single team except Bucknell (who we still managed to lose to) but outside of Yale (and BC, of course), comebacks have fallen short. Chesney & company simply got too conservative with the 1 point lead. I was hoping that if we could hold Harvard to a FG and get the ball back close enough that Ng would hit another game winning FG as time ran out. We gave them too much time and our DBs were not up to the challenge unfortunately. Bob Chesney's streak of winning seasons as a head coach has ended. Welcome to Holy Cross, Bob. Yes welcome to HC Bob but the question now is are we headed to 1-10 Easy answer: NO |
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Oct 13, 2018 8:43:13 GMT -5
Perhaps after playing 6 games, you could make the argument the inexperienced players are no longer considered inexperienced. Maybe a more appropriate quote would have been we had a chance to put the game away late in the 4th quarter and couldn't do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 13, 2018 9:06:18 GMT -5
We now have two weeks in which to put into place some of the significant changes that many posters have been calling for. I hope the offense can spring some surprises on our PL opponents here on out
|
|
|
|
Post by td128 on Oct 13, 2018 9:11:58 GMT -5
Just my opinion but it seems to me that the staff is fixated on using the RPO (run pass option) approach as the foundation of our overall offensive strategy. Regrettably, IMO we do not have the athletic talent in any of our QBs to run that style effectively on a full time basis. As a result we see far too many plays in which the defense keys on the RB and forces our QB to keep the ball. He makes some progress at times but far too often he gains no yards and/or loses yardage. If any of the other QBs had the athletic talent to run this system, I have to imagine we would have seen them by now.
Here are the rushing stats for last night
Rushing No Gain Loss Net TD Lg Avg
-------------------------------------------------
Cozier,Domenic 15 81 7 74 2 24 4.9
Oliver,Peter 3 57 0 57 0 49 19.0
Alexander,Miles 6 22 6 16 0 9 2.7
Wade,Geoff 14 34 30 4 0 11 0.3
Clifford,Emmett 1 0 1 -1 0 0 -1.0
Team 1 0 2 -2 0 0 -2.0
Totals... 40 194 46 148 2 49 3.7
Geoff carried the ball 14 times for net +4 yards. We had a total of 61 plays in the game overall so in almost 25% of our plays we netted 4 yards. Harvard ran 78 or 79 plays for overall 500+ yards of total offense. .
Again just my opinion, but if the staff wants to continue to emphasize the RPO, they should put Blaise Bell at QB for those plays and run a version of a Wildcat offense. He has the athletic talent to create challenges and mismatches for the defense. Plus this would get the ball into Blaise's hands and he is one of the most talented and athletic kids on the team. He is not a precision passer though which is why he was moved from QB to WR two years ago. Dartmouth has a two headed monster at QB. Although Dartmouth's running QB did not play against us, the kid they use for RPO as QB ran roughshod over Yale. I personally also think that Peter Oliver should get more touches. This kid pounds it.
We ran the ball 40 times last night and only passed the ball 21 times. Geoff Wade does have success getting the ball downfield (we have seen this in the Yale game, vs Bucknell, and last night) but we do not seem to stretch the field enough and get the ball to guys who do have some talent in space.
# Rec. Yds TD Long
----------------------------------------
Dorsey,Martin 6 73 2 19
DeNicola,R 4 106 0 61
Cozier,D 3 12 0 6
Bell,Blaise 2 21 0 16
Totals... 15 212 2 61
I was pleased to see the offense spice it up last night with a few flea flickers, one of which was effective to keep the defense honest but overall it strikes me that we are forcing our talents into a system rather than adapting the system to our talents.
I am rambling here but I would love to see Blaise at QB for 25% of our plays using the RPO in which we keep the ball on the ground using Cozier and Alexander as the RBs. Have Geoff at QB for the other 75% of the plays in which we run the ball 25% of the time with Peter Oliver as the primary back and then have Geoff as a pocket passing QB for 40-50% of the plays so we can stretch the field.
Again, just my two cents after watching 6 of the 7 games this year.
We have an off week so I hope the team regroups after the tough loss and can make some adjustments because there is no reason we cannot run the table in our final 4 games all of which are league games and end the season on a VERY high note.
Hope springs eternal.
Let's Win!!
|
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 13, 2018 10:09:50 GMT -5
The team played hard, but this game clearly demonstrated to me that we are being out-coached. It dawned on me tonight, what is Chesney really going to bring to the future of this program? Since he is not an Xs and O's guy or an "in-game" management guy, what purpose does he actually serve? Is he going to break down the barriers in the academic department regarding who we can accept? Is he a great recruiter for FCS caliber athletes? Does he help Scott James with defensive schematics? What are Chesney's strengths? While my only sources are press conferences, a couple videos from practice and his track record, I am more hopeful that Chesney actually has a strong understanding of general X’s & O’s in football. However, the results on the field have not backed that up yet. The sample size is too small, and perhaps Chesney has some type of reasonable justification for not making a move on Murphy during the season, but if he is not let go immediately after the season with a new guy brought in who can totally transform the current offensive gameplanning & play calling, that would be a major red flag against Chesney. I am still hopeful that Chesney can be some form of a PJ Fleck, who may not be an offensive or defensive whiz, but gets the X’s and O’s, knows how to run a program, recruits at a high level, develops players, and allows his coordinators to take on the specifics with each of their units. The one monkey wrench there is that it can be tough to hire and retain great coordinators at this level. I do not think that Chesney is the same type of “empty suit” that Milan Brown was for the basketball program, with absolutely no substance behind all the talking and antics. |
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 13, 2018 10:10:51 GMT -5
I hate being in the minority, and certainly game to game x's and o's decisions can be debated. But, I think culture is as at least as important as game strategy, and a lot harder to rectify.
Looking back, it appears Tom Gilmore himself had to turn around a tough situation, and his efforts to do so culminated with the PL title. But, it seems that very, very slowly from that point forward, the winning culture was lost. I have no idea of how or why, but it sure seems that way to me. Maybe it was just a case of external factors (such as the competition). I totally trust my friend sader1970's endorsement of TG's passion and commitment to HC, but it was probably time for both parties to move on.
Now, why do I have faith in Coach Ches? Well, I've already seen 3 instances of games where it would have been easy for the team to fold its collective tent and lose going away (Colgate, Yale and now Harvard). To me, that's a sign of seeds having been planted for a winning culture. It doesn't mean the flowers are going to blossom next week, next month, or maybe even next year. And Coach certainly needs to evaluate the strategic element/staffing going forward (because HE is responsible for that). But that's easier to do imho. I don't think it's an accident he's won in his past. I also don't think it's relevant to compare this year with what the team might have done with TG still at the helm - you don't make a change with a focus on the following year. As an example, in basketball I believe FCMB would have had a better regular season in 2015-16 than CBC did, just from a continuity standpoint. Doesn't mean it was the wrong decision to make the change.
As I mentioned before, I will continue to look at the Army program under Jeff Monken for inspiration. He was under a lot of heat early, for the game to game scrutiny that goes on with fan bases. I'm guessing they are happy they kept him.
|
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 13, 2018 10:34:32 GMT -5
Nails it! Can you be a "volunteer coach" for Bob Chesney, Larry? Think that what Bob Chesney, Sr. is.
|
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 13, 2018 10:43:02 GMT -5
Always appreciate your positivity, NAD! What you missed is that flowers need fertilizer to florish and that often means a dose of manure.   Hopefully we won't be seeing some "spin" about how great we are doing this year from the athletic department. Having never "played the game" (reference to the sainted Howard Cossell  ), but having watched this program up close for almost 20 years running, I still feel strongly that TG had a lot longer row to hoe taking over for Dan Allen than Bob Chesney has now after Tom Gilmore. I think both of them were/are committed to making this Crusader football program a long term success. Maybe after the season is over, our coach would be willing to submit to a breezy "20 questions" interview as we used to see long ago. |
|
|
|
Post by joutsHC77 on Oct 13, 2018 10:53:05 GMT -5
Finally see DeNicola was passed to. What took them so long? Why always wait until the 2nd half to institute urgency with the O? Oh, and Oliver- 3 rushes for 57 yards. Duh??? Seems to me the problems reside with the OC and head coach in their-to date-faulty decision making.
|
|
|
|
Post by 6sader7 on Oct 13, 2018 11:27:59 GMT -5
We all want the program to succeed, and it's beating a dead horse at this point - But it's hard for me to believe that anyone who understands the game of football would argue that our offensive play calling and overall strategy is not the most significant factor in both our loss last night as well as our general demise this entire season.
I would like to see a scatter chart of sorts that showed all of our plays so you would see a dark concentration between our two guards.
|
|
|
|
Post by crossbball13 on Oct 13, 2018 11:39:30 GMT -5
In the first half after 7 games --
HC: 28 Points (Average 4 Points)
Opponents: 146 (Average 21 Points)
Somewhat put that in context for me---
|
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 13, 2018 11:49:04 GMT -5
Thanks, 45, I have my DVR set to record but I am pretty sure that the results are going to be the same, a close, frustrating loss. But, I do want to watch again to feel the fleeting hope we all had. The refs were terrible (again!) but we almost had one go our way on an obvious Wade fumble that fortunately the refs blew dead or would have been a Harvard TD instead of the following FG.
|
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Oct 13, 2018 11:50:24 GMT -5
In the first half after 7 games -- HC: 28 Points (Average 4 Points) Opponents: 146 (Average 21 Points) Somewhat put that in context for me--- An optimist might say that in the games that were not over by the half (BC for sure) the staff was good at making in-game adjustments and figuring out how to get back in the ballgame. A pessimist would say the team wasn't prepared correctly. Or didn't come out fired up enough. And only because the opponent said at some point in the game "these guys suck" and let down, were HC able to crawl back into the game. Of course the truth lies somewhere in between. |
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 13, 2018 11:51:33 GMT -5
“If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.”
― Will Rogers
|
|
|
|
Post by breezy on Oct 13, 2018 11:53:34 GMT -5
... overall it strikes me that we are forcing our talents into a system rather than adapting the system to our talents.
I'm no expert and if someone wants to point out how I am wrong, please feel free, but I firmly believe that this is precisely on point. This is the system that the coaching staff wants to run, even though our player's talents might be better utilized in a different system. Eventually, as new players are added through recruiting, they may have talents better suited to this system, and success may follow. In the meantime, we take our lumps. |
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 13, 2018 12:00:16 GMT -5
Sad, but I agree, especially since I thought I remembered Chesney saying that the players' skills would determine what kind of game plan/strategy we would have and not the other way around. I may be totally mis-remembering that statement and can't recall exactly where I thought I heard but might have been at his initial press conference after being hired (45, you were there with me - I trust your better, older memory).
|
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 13, 2018 16:17:29 GMT -5
... overall it strikes me that we are forcing our talents into a system rather than adapting the system to our talents.
I'm no expert and if someone wants to point out how I am wrong, please feel free, but I firmly believe that this is precisely on point. This is the system that the coaching staff wants to run, even though our player's talents might be better utilized in a different system. Eventually, as new players are added through recruiting, they may have talents better suited to this system, and success may follow. In the meantime, we take our lumps. I looked at Assumption's 2017 statistics. Three quarterbacks played in all 13 games, and, combined, rushed a total of 87 times, for 181 net rushing yards. It would not appear that the RPO was featured by Chesney in 2017. That said, Wade, as a full pay, is quite unlikely to have signed on if the HC offense differed from what he ran in high school,. Clifford,,from the same high school as PP, ran the same high school offense. Clifford passed for as many yards in his senior year as Bell did in his high school career. This suggests Bell may have run a RPO (or variant) in high school. For whatever reason, the HC coaches devoted spring practice and fall camp to installing an offense that NONE of the three top QBs had experience running. And which has failed them. It is only when the vertical offense is working that HC is able to move the ball; e.g., Wade coming in for Clifford against Yale, and yesterday against Harvard. As for Degenhardt, who, at 6'6", has the size to be a successful pocket passer, his high school stats may surprise some: Threw for 1,881 yards and 14 touchdowns as a senior, in addition to rushing for 716 yards and nine scores. • Finished his high school career with 5,516 passing yards and 44 touchdowns, while rushing for 21 more touchdowns.
|
|
|
|
Post by joutsHC77 on Oct 13, 2018 16:24:22 GMT -5
Good info PP. We’ll never know about Degenhardt until he gets on the field. I have the feeling we shouldn’t underestimate him.
|
|
|
|
Post by crossbball13 on Oct 13, 2018 16:50:05 GMT -5
Good info PP. We’ll never know about Degenhardt until he gets on the field. I have the feeling we shouldn’t underestimate him. Underestimate him? He hasn’t seen a snap behind 2 struggling qb’s. |
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Oct 13, 2018 17:03:30 GMT -5
You'd think if Chesney thought Degenhardt had a chance to start next year he'd have used him a bit during our 'rebuilding' year. (Beyond the 1 passing attempt v BC)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 17:04:07 GMT -5
Degenhardt's dad was an HC football player and 86' graduate. It's hard for me to believe that he would be more inept than Wade or Clifford.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 17:10:36 GMT -5
As a defensive player, I look at Chesney's offensive system and see problems regardless of who they intend to bring in next year. Simply put, there is little motion, te trade, or any type of effort to gain an offensive advantage at the point of attack. Playing this offense on the opposing side of the ball would be so easy to game plan for.
|
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 13, 2018 17:20:34 GMT -5
43, as an FYI, a thumbs up and a thumbs down together means, at least for me that I agree with you but don't like it.  |
|
|
|
Post by 6sader7 on Oct 13, 2018 18:19:43 GMT -5
As a defensive player, I look at Chesney's offensive system and see problems regardless of who they intend to bring in next year. Simply put, there is little motion, te trade, or any type of effort to gain an offensive advantage at the point of attack. Playing this offense on the opposing side of the ball would be so easy to game plan for. As an offensive player, it's painful to watch these guys try to run this offense, they're like sitting ducks. This actually reminds me of having to run an inside trap against you in practice when you knew exactly what was coming at you prior to the snap... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 18:41:16 GMT -5
As a defensive player, I look at Chesney's offensive system and see problems regardless of who they intend to bring in next year. Simply put, there is little motion, te trade, or any type of effort to gain an offensive advantage at the point of attack. Playing this offense on the opposing side of the ball would be so easy to game plan for. As an offensive player, it's painful to watch these guys try to run this offense, they're like sitting ducks. This actually reminds me of having to run an inside trap against you in practice when you knew exactly what was coming at you prior to the snap... Forgot the exact line call for that one, however, always enjoyed the free shot on the RB. haha |
|
Hopefully we won't be seeing some "spin" about how great we are doing this year from the athletic department.
), but having watched this program up close for almost 20 years running, I still feel strongly that TG had a lot longer row to hoe taking over for Dan Allen than Bob Chesney has now after Tom Gilmore. I think both of them were/are committed to making this Crusader football program a long term success. 
