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Post by thecrossisback on Oct 13, 2018 19:02:52 GMT -5
What a game to go to. Almost as fun as the Yale game. If they pulled it off, it would have been better. I wish the refs reviewed Harvard's two point conversion. I think it was close. Refs as usual sucked. The holding on the last drive was a tipped ball. We will crush them next year at Fitton. Nighttime was fun and over 10,000 people.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 13, 2018 20:16:07 GMT -5
Sure didn't look like 10,000 on the video stream. Looked like no more than 1/4 full and with about 30,000 capacity, that'd be 7,500 +/-. But, you are right on the "official" numbers and they probably count like at Fitton. Last time we played there, attendance was listed at over 15,000.
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Post by bigfan on Oct 14, 2018 6:32:09 GMT -5
I agree, the OC needs to be replaced. The head coach needs time to figure things out. The big problem is recruiting, we need better athletes.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 14, 2018 6:44:12 GMT -5
They have 32 freshmen, how can anyone possibly pass judgement on them at this point? They may be hoisting a trophy or two before they are finished.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 14, 2018 6:50:14 GMT -5
Good point, Dave. I think that those who have the insight that HC needs better athletes should contact the coaches if they feel the professional coaches who are trying to build a program are unaware of that. Are there any teams in the country that do not try to recruit the best athletes (working within availability and the admission standards of a school)? I believe such observations are coming from frustrated fans who are growing tired of seeing HC lose, but that is just one fan's opinion.  Try to stay calm in this year of restructuring. The next five weeks (and 4 games) should go a long way to showing the situation of the program after one year with our new coaching staff. |
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Post by timholycross on Oct 14, 2018 8:06:54 GMT -5
Sad, but I agree, especially since I thought I remembered Chesney saying that the players' skills would determine what kind of game plan/strategy we would have and not the other way around. I may be totally mis-remembering that statement and can't recall exactly where I thought I heard but might have been at his initial press conference after being hired (45, you were there with me - I trust your better, older memory). That reminds me of something way, way back when George Blaney was hired. He said something like "we'll press the other team the second they come out of the locker room". And, of course, in Season 3, when he got the personnel that could do that (Potter and Vicens in particular) he did just that for the time they were there. But, when he got to his first practice in 1972 and saw his senior class (Doyle, Grentz and Schnurr; all very good ballplayers, for sure) didn't have the skills to press, he put it on the shelf. Team didn't perform very well, but not due to insisting they implement a strategy that was doomed from the outset. |
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Post by timholycross on Oct 14, 2018 8:13:01 GMT -5
I looked at Assumption's 2017 statistics. Three quarterbacks played in all 13 games, and, combined, rushed a total of 87 times, for 181 net rushing yards. It would not appear that the RPO was featured by Chesney in 2017. That said, Wade, as a full pay, is quite unlikely to have signed on if the HC offense differed from what he ran in high school,. Clifford,,from the same high school as PP, ran the same high school offense. Clifford passed for as many yards in his senior year as Bell did in his high school career. This suggests Bell may have run a RPO (or variant) in high school. For whatever reason, the HC coaches devoted spring practice and fall camp to installing an offense that NONE of the three top QBs had experience running. And which has failed them. It is only when the vertical offense is working that HC is able to move the ball; e.g., Wade coming in for Clifford against Yale, and yesterday against Harvard. As for Degenhardt, who, at 6'6", has the size to be a successful pocket passer, his high school stats may surprise some: Threw for 1,881 yards and 14 touchdowns as a senior, in addition to rushing for 716 yards and nine scores. • Finished his high school career with 5,516 passing yards and 44 touchdowns, while rushing for 21 more touchdowns.
At the high school level I wouldn't put much stock in qb running stats if the qb can pass well and OL is decent. There is a ton of space on the field to scramble for several yards usually. The opponents usually lack the speed necessary to cover the field. And a guy 6-6 at that level is hard to bring down. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 14, 2018 9:49:05 GMT -5
tim, I posted his rushing stats because he has been characterized on this board as being slow a-foot, and thus ill-suited for the RPO. But what happens next year, with a season opener against Navy and no QBs capable of running a RPO at Div I level?
As Assumption didn't run a RPO in 2017, who did? The answer: Tufts. From whence came the OC. In 2017, the Tufts QB was the leading rusher on the team, averaging 80.2 yards a game. The Tufts QB had 163 rushing attempts and 268 passing attempts.
For 2018, Tufts does not post cumulative season stats, but in the most recent game against Trinity -- and the Jumbo's first loss -- the same Tufts QB as in 2017 had 40 passing attempts and 8 rushing attempts (for 27 yards). (Announced attendance (in Hartford) was 4666.
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Post by HCFC45 on Oct 14, 2018 11:02:38 GMT -5
Sad, but I agree, especially since I thought I remembered Chesney saying that the players' skills would determine what kind of game plan/strategy we would have and not the other way around. I may be totally mis-remembering that statement and can't recall exactly where I thought I heard but might have been at his initial press conference after being hired (45, you were there with me - I trust your better, older memory). Older? Sad, but true!  ! Better memory? Can't remember what I was going to post.... !  ! ! Anyway, I do remember a comment that Chesney made following the scrimmage a week before our season opening game. I'll try to accurately summarize as best I can....Chesney was asked, not by me, if he was pleased with what he saw in the scrimmage. His reply was "not at all!" Asked another question about the opener and the whole season, he replied that he was nervous about the disparity between the experienced and inexperienced players. He said you can't throw too much at them because they cannot absorb, handle and execute it right now, so you have to keep it simple. We are playing many inexperienced (at this level) players who are paying the price for getting that experience!!! This last sentence is my own and not Chesney's. I'm not really upset with the record they have now because I did not expect much more in the first 7 games. Though, we should have beaten both Bucknell and Harvard. We probably should have lost to Yale but I think we were in such better shape against Yale and that's the reason we won. So if a few couldah, wouldah, shouldas had gone out way we would all be pretty happy with a 3 and 4 record! The next 4 games will be telling!!! Hopefully there is a blowout or 2 so that we can see what our 6' 6" QB, CD, can do!!! ! |
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Post by hcpride on Oct 14, 2018 11:14:51 GMT -5
CD's style of play coupled with our offensive line might equal a very difficult fit for us right now. It is not uncommon in the PL (and HC) for a quality sophomore to start or at least get tons of playing time.
(Apparently Chesney made a similar observation regarding experience to the announcers of the Harvard game and as I previously noted I had the impression that many juniors and seniors on the team had less experience than he would have liked to have seen. And that is above and beyond the large frosh class he is developing. So he really is rebuilding...and when you are rebuilding after back-to-back 4-7 seasons it is tough to hit 4 wins.)
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 14, 2018 11:46:16 GMT -5
As this year has shown, it certainly can be.
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Post by purple1 on Oct 14, 2018 16:07:44 GMT -5
Stop the horsing around and give Degenhardt a chance.....you have nothing to lose and everything to gain !! He with the recruited QB from Florida are your future - give him some game experience. Some players respond to game time better than practice time....
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Post by efg72 on Oct 14, 2018 16:49:12 GMT -5
Couldn’t agree more
Upperclassmen (Especially the QBs) have been given a shot, so as the team approaches the second half/league play it is now time to look ahead and give additional minutes to the younger players.
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Post by spenser on Oct 14, 2018 16:54:12 GMT -5
Couldn’t agree more Upperclassmen (Especially the QBs) have been given a shot, so as the team approaches the second half/league play it is now time to look ahead and give additional minutes to the younger players. I have to agree. It’s time to look forward. I’d like to see some wins but at this point find out what some of the younger players can do. |
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Post by cruskater31 on Oct 14, 2018 20:15:52 GMT -5
Out of curiosity...does the OC for us continue calling plays on the two minute drill or during our comebacks? Completely different plays, tempo, everything it seems. Wondering if Chesney calls them.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 14, 2018 23:37:34 GMT -5
tim, I posted his rushing stats because he has been characterized on this board as being slow a-foot, and thus ill-suited for the RPO. But what happens next year, with a season opener against Navy and no QBs capable of running a RPO at Div I level? As Assumption didn't run a RPO in 2017, who did? The answer: Tufts. From whence came the OC. In 2017, the Tufts QB was the leading rusher on the team, averaging 80.2 yards a game. The Tufts QB had 163 rushing attempts and 268 passing attempts. For 2018, Tufts does not post cumulative season stats, but in the most recent game against Trinity -- and the Jumbo's first loss -- the same Tufts QB as in 2017 had 40 passing attempts and 8 rushing attempts (for 27 yards). (Announced attendance (in Hartford) was 4666. Well, you don't run that offense with that guy if that guy can't run! They have 9 months to figure out what plays to run if he's the guy. Or, they are stubborn SOBs and keep running the same stuff. |
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 15, 2018 7:17:32 GMT -5
Both your points could be true.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 15, 2018 9:53:31 GMT -5
Another rough loss. Lots of pain this season, with only a few positive surprises sprinkled in. Here are my thoughts: - There's a fine line between positivity or optimism, and outright denial or excuse-making. A few of the Purplest of Purple on here continue to say "we fought hard," or "we didn't quit," or "at least we came back." I would rather play like sh*t and win. I would rather blow the doors off the other people and show lots of stupid, bone-headed mistakes, and win. Moral victories don't count anywhere except apparently on Crossports.
- In anticipation of what are certain to be apologist replies to my first point above, I know HC is supposed to find, coach, and graduate "fine young men, representative of the student body." We can also find, coach, and graduate winning football players. Don't make the two mutually exclusive.
- Freshman. Underclassmen. Is it a foregone conclusion that they are all terrible? As in, every senior is better than every freshman simply because of age and experience? Why isn't Eli Manning 10x better than Patrick Mahomes? He's older and more experienced. Yes, obviously... size, strength, skill, experience, confidence all can come with age, but again, they're not a guarantee. There is still a chance that an underclassman, or group of them, can meaningfully contribute, if not outright win their role or side of the football. There's a reason why you play on the field and don't just compare class sizes and allocate a winner. So many of you, and Chesney as well, are using freshman players as an excuse. Do they not practice? Do they not get scholarships? Do they just not have enough magic sprinkled on them until 3 years elapse and they are "seniors" and then we can all now expect them to be able to play this game at the D1 level?
- Coach Chesney was certainly hamstrung by having to select a new OC just before the season started. Perhaps if the prior coach did not leave for greener pastures at the professional level, we'd see a lot of these close situations, or botched situations, swing in our favor. Nevertheless, I think that a lot of folks bought into the hype that a D3 coach was selling, having never experienced that success at the D1 level. Only recently have folks been able to say that the hype train may have out-kicked its coverage. 6 games do not a career make, so the jury is absolutely still out. But let's not say that Chesney's success is a foregone conclusion with the passage of time similar to point # 3 above.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 15, 2018 12:05:06 GMT -5
Agree with many of your points but perhaps a minor difference on the D3 to D1.
Outside of recruiting for more talented players in a more stringent academic environment, as for game coaching and strategizing, wouldn’t that be essentially the same for D3 and D1?
And as for recruiting, it seems the consensus that the current freshmen that Chesney has recruited are among the best perhaps in decades.
I am not sure what the real issues are but think the D3 to D1 jump is the least of it.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 15, 2018 13:23:37 GMT -5
It's a tough call imo....my guess is that Chesney is trying to establish a "winning culture" and that's the reason he has stuck with Wade for most of this season. Finish up the season with Wade and go 4-7 or 5-6 or go young and finish maybe 1-10 or 2-9. I'm not necessarily saying that would/will be the case either way...just what maybe he's thinking? I haven't seen all of the coaches shows or post-game pressahs...has he been asked why he has stuck with Wade?
If you're a "keg is half-full" person, we are only a few plays away from being maybe 3-4 at this point.
While I was hoping for a new coach with D1 experience during the hiring process, I don't think it's a quantum leap from Chesney's D2 head-coaching experience at Assumption to the head job as it exists today at Holy Cross in terms of running an overall football program. More difficult, more responsibilities etc etc? Absolutely...but much of the problem he's had this year imo is that he has played teams like BC and Dartmouth not Bentley and St Anselm's.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 15, 2018 13:54:54 GMT -5
Another rough loss. Lots of pain this season, with only a few positive surprises sprinkled in. Here are my thoughts: - Coach Chesney was certainly hamstrung by having to select a new OC just before the season started. Perhaps if the prior coach did not leave for greener pastures at the professional level, we'd see a lot of these close situations, or botched situations, swing in our favor. Nevertheless, I think that a lot of folks bought into the hype that a D3 coach was selling, having never experienced that success at the D1 level. Only recently have folks been able to say that the hype train may have out-kicked its coverage. 6 games do not a career make, so the jury is absolutely still out. But let's not say that Chesney's success is a foregone conclusion with the passage of time similar to point # 3 above
Are you referring to HC Chesney or his OC when you say the hype "a Div 3 coach was selling?" After all, Coach Chesney was a D2 coach for 5 years at Assumption. |
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 15, 2018 14:25:12 GMT -5
If after all of his years in coaching there is "a big problem with Chesney" it may be something at HC rather than with the coach. We haven't yet seen the "I have secret knowledge" post (which we have seen about almost every major sport coach at HC) about Coach Chesney. If it is that the coach is like our Athletic Director, I have no problem with that. The players I have spoken to like and respect their coach (and not just on media interviews). They, after all, are the ones in the locker room so I'll go with their opinion. How does a rumor about "something not adding up in the locker room" do anything for the team and school of which you seem to be a fan? Why would anyone be concerned about (or even believe) there is some unnamed problem behind the scenes?
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Post by hc87 on Oct 15, 2018 14:27:55 GMT -5
It's a tough situation....which has only been exacerbated by an overall fairly difficult schedule so far. Some associated with the program have reached out to me here and have expressed similar concerns....but that is almost always going to be the case when you're 1-6...especially in this day and age. I've never coached at the collegiate level but I'm kind of sad to say that I am happy I'm on my "back 5 or 6 holes" or so in my hs coaching career, particularly basketball. The amount of animus/blame that can come out from many places didn't exist 15-25 years ago as it does today at almost every level all the way down to youth leagues. I'm well aware that that could be construed as the "teapot calling the kettle black" btw  . It's still very early in Chesney's tenure...personally, I'm going to do my very best not to completely question whether or not he's the guy for the job until 2020 or so. |
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 15, 2018 14:28:24 GMT -5
Another rough loss. Lots of pain this season, with only a few positive surprises sprinkled in. Here are my thoughts: - Coach Chesney was certainly hamstrung by having to select a new OC just before the season started. Perhaps if the prior coach did not leave for greener pastures at the professional level, we'd see a lot of these close situations, or botched situations, swing in our favor. Nevertheless, I think that a lot of folks bought into the hype that a D3 coach was selling, having never experienced that success at the D1 level. Only recently have folks been able to say that the hype train may have out-kicked its coverage. 6 games do not a career make, so the jury is absolutely still out. But let's not say that Chesney's success is a foregone conclusion with the passage of time similar to point # 3 above
Are you referring to HC Chesney or his OC when you say the type "a Div 3 coach was selling?" After all, Coach Chesney was a D2 coach for 5 years at Assumption. Chesney. D2. Excuse me. Still not D1, so there is something to be proven. I hope that HC more than obliges. |
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 15, 2018 14:34:33 GMT -5
Thanks WCHC for clarifying that. I agree that there is still a lot to be proven (even if the HC record were better than 1-6).
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! Better memory? Can't remember what I was going to post.... 
! 
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