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Post by rgs318 on Nov 26, 2018 7:23:32 GMT -5
Composite Rank (11/25) showing HC and opponents as ranked by 14 polls:
Rank (Previous) Team (record)
4 (6) Michigan (6-0)
61 (63) Providence (4-2)
106 (89) Rhode Island (2-2)
132 (127) Harvard (3-3)
146 (159) Lehigh (4-2)
162 (171) Holy Cross (4-2)
166 (192) Stony Brook (5-1)
173 (157) Bucknell (2-2)
177 (178) Colgate (5-2)
178 (195) U Mass (4-3)
186 (154) Iona (2-3)
203 (164) Canisius (1-5)
207 (183) Boston University (3-4)
212 (232) American University (3-1)
241 (207) Albany (2-4)
256 (282) Fairleigh Dickinson (3-2)
273 (265) Siena (2-4)
288 (266) Navy (2-3)
312 (290) Army West Point (2-5)
315 (295) Loyola MD (2-5)
317 (316) Lafayette (2-3)
324 (317) Sacred Heart (2-4)
Out of 353 D1 colleges
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Post by bison137 on Nov 26, 2018 8:05:43 GMT -5
For those wondering why some teams move in unexpected, sometimes bizarre, ways, here are a few reasons:
1. Massey's "composite rankings" early in the week incorporates less rankings. For example, last week's Massey rankings ended up using 21 different rankings. This week's version - which is the one shown above, uses only 14. It will change So last week and this week are apples to oranges at this point.
2. Each week the different rankings used by Massey to produce this composite average vary. For example, last week his rankings did not include something called "Joby Nitty Gritty". This week it does. That ranking has Bucknell at #351, which to me brings its credibility down to zero single-handedly. By using it this week but not last week, it is a major reason why Bucknell dropped in a week when it beat Vermont on the road.
3. Some of the rankings used by Massey this morning do not incorporate all of yesterday's games, although most do.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 26, 2018 8:14:42 GMT -5
Thanks for going through all of the polls. That one (Joby Nitty Gritty) does seem dubious at best - terrible would be a better evaluation. I wonder why it was included?
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Post by hchoops on Nov 26, 2018 8:25:05 GMT -5
Better to stick with the more reliable Pomeroy
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 26, 2018 10:02:20 GMT -5
For those who prefer Pomeroy, here it is (along with a comparison to the Composite List on Massey which includes Pomeroy):
Rank (Massey Composite) Team (record)
7 (4) Michigan (6-0)
60 (61) Providence (4-2)
84 (132) Harvard (3-3)
129 (106) Rhode Island (2-2)
134 (178) U Mass (4-3)
143 (146) Lehigh (4-2)
157 (162) Holy Cross (4-2)
162 (186) Iona (2-3)
173 (177) Colgate (5-2)
178 (212) American University (3-1)
179 (166) Stony Brook (5-1)
197 (173) Bucknell (2-2)
205 (203) Canisius (1-5)
231 (207) Boston University (3-4)
248 (241) Albany (2-4)
258 (273) Siena (2-4)
266 (256) Fairleigh Dickinson (3-2)
279 (312) Army West Point (2-5)
302 (317) Lafayette (2-3)
304 (315) Loyola MD (2-5)
314 (288) Navy (2-3)
318 (324) Sacred Heart (2-4)
Out of 353 D1 colleges
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 26, 2018 10:43:01 GMT -5
I love Pomeroy--great analytics and well worth the small subscription fee. For those unfamiliar with his methodology, KenPom calculates offensive and defensive efficiency and those results are what drive the rankings and his projections for future games.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 26, 2018 13:19:55 GMT -5
How does that put Bucknell 24 places lower than the Bison are on Massey?
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Post by notjuanjones on Nov 26, 2018 15:55:28 GMT -5
For those who prefer Pomeroy, here it is (along with a comparison to the Composite List on Massey which includes Pomeroy):Rank (Massey Composite) Team (record)
7 (4) Michigan (6-0)
60 (61) Providence (4-2)
84 (132) Harvard (3-3)
129 (106) Rhode Island (2-2)
134 (178) U Mass (4-3)
143 (146) Lehigh (4-2)
157 (162) Holy Cross (4-2)
162 (186) Iona (2-3)
173 (177) Colgate (5-2)
178 (212) American University (3-1)
179 (166) Stony Brook (5-1)
197 (173) Bucknell (2-2)
205 (203) Canisius (1-5)
231 (207) Boston University (3-4)
248 (241) Albany (2-4)
258 (273) Siena (2-4)
266 (256) Fairleigh Dickinson (3-2)
279 (312) Army West Point (2-5)
302 (317) Lafayette (2-3)
304 (315) Loyola MD (2-5)
314 (288) Navy (2-3)
318 (324) Sacred Heart (2-4)
Out of 353 D1 colleges Again, I think KenPom consistently is more accurate than most other polls, though I like some others like Sagarin. Right now, to not have HC, Colgate, Lehigh and AU, in some order, as the top four PL teams is ridiculous. Bucknell certainly can make an argument it belongs after the Vermont win, but from a consistency of play standpoint thus far the top four to me remain as previously stated. |
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Post by hchoops on Nov 26, 2018 16:08:13 GMT -5
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 26, 2018 18:02:41 GMT -5
For those who prefer Pomeroy, here it is (along with a comparison to the Composite List on Massey which includes Pomeroy):Rank (Massey Composite) Team (record)
7 (4) Michigan (6-0)
60 (61) Providence (4-2)
84 (132) Harvard (3-3)
129 (106) Rhode Island (2-2)
134 (178) U Mass (4-3)
143 (146) Lehigh (4-2)
157 (162) Holy Cross (4-2)
162 (186) Iona (2-3)
173 (177) Colgate (5-2)
178 (212) American University (3-1)
179 (166) Stony Brook (5-1)
197 (173) Bucknell (2-2)
205 (203) Canisius (1-5)
231 (207) Boston University (3-4)
248 (241) Albany (2-4)
258 (273) Siena (2-4)
266 (256) Fairleigh Dickinson (3-2)
279 (312) Army West Point (2-5)
302 (317) Lafayette (2-3)
304 (315) Loyola MD (2-5)
314 (288) Navy (2-3)
318 (324) Sacred Heart (2-4)
Out of 353 D1 colleges Wonder if the PL has ever had 5 teams ranked in the top 200, at any time, in any poll. Seems like at least 1-2 pretty decent teams are going to be shut out of a home court slot in the PL tourney. I hope it's not us. |
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Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 26, 2018 18:25:09 GMT -5
Again, I think KenPom consistently is more accurate than most other polls, though I like some others like Sagarin. Right now, to not have HC, Colgate, Lehigh and AU, in some order, as the top four PL teams is ridiculous. Bucknell certainly can make an argument it belongs after the Vermont win, but from a consistency of play standpoint thus far the top four to me remain as previously stated. If Sestina is healthy, Bucknell is most definitely in the mix. When Whyte returns, BU can state its case as well. Looks like Army, Navy, Lafayette, and Loyola have separated themselves from the pack, at the bottom. |
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Post by bison137 on Nov 26, 2018 19:10:00 GMT -5
Again, I think KenPom consistently is more accurate than most other polls, though I like some others like Sagarin. Right now, to not have HC, Colgate, Lehigh and AU, in some order, as the top four PL teams is ridiculous. Bucknell certainly can make an argument it belongs after the Vermont win, but from a consistency of play standpoint thus far the top four to me remain as previously stated. If Sestina is healthy, Bucknell is most definitely in the mix. I think that's fair to say. With Sestina suited up, Bucknell is 2-0 with road wins over Saint Bonaventure and Vermont. Without him, close losses to Fairfield and Canisius. There's no way to prove it, of course, but I think they might well be 4-0 with him playing. |
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Post by matunuck on Nov 28, 2018 14:53:38 GMT -5
Speaking of ranking --
New NCAA Ranking Tool Isn’t Kind To PC
Kevin McNamara, The Providence Journal
This isn’t easy to explain but one thing is clear when it comes to ranking the best college basketball teams this season: the NET has arrived and the RPI is dead.
The NET is the new composite tool the NCAA has created to rank the nation’s 353 teams. NET stands for NCAA Evaluation Tool and it replaces the Ratings Percentage Index.
The first release of the NET occurred on Monday and, not surprisingly, left everyone in the sport a bit confused. After only five or so games, the statistical sample is much too small to get a good read on what the NET is truly measuring, but when Ohio State led the way in the NET but is 16th in the Associated Press Top 25 Poll, it was a surprise. So was seeing No. 1 ranked Kansas check in at No. 11 in the first edition of the NET.
The NET is meant to dig deeper into statistics and schedule strength than the RPI. It blends clear-cut variables like scoring margin (capped at 10 points), winning percentage and adjusted winning percentage based on game location (home, road, neutral) with a more nebulous Team Value Index. The NCAA is describing the index as “an algorithm set up to reward teams who beat other good teams,” and includes a bonus for winning on the road.
Unlike the RPI, the NCAA has not revealed how much it will weigh the five components of the NET.
The first edition of the NET wasn’t very positive for the Friars. Entering Tuesday night’s game against Fairleigh Dickinson, the Friars are 120th on the NET. Teams usually need to be ranked in the top 60 by March to have a chance at earning an NCAA Tournament invitation.
PC’s nonconference schedule isn’t opening many eyes. The Friars’ best win has come against Holy Cross (115 NET). The only non-Big East game remaining that will come against a team currently in the NET’s top 100 is at Texas (34) on Dec. 21.
This early in the season, teams can see large swings in the NET after only one result. An excellent example is South Carolina, a team PC beat on Nov. 17 and needs to fare well the rest of the season. The Gamecocks were 162nd when the NET was released on Monday afternoon but after getting blown out at home by Wofford on Monday night, they fell to 191st.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 28, 2018 15:28:35 GMT -5
Mike Francesa had someone on his show say either yesterday, or the day before, that the NCAA's NET ranking was the WORST ranking system in any sport, at any level, in history.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 28, 2018 16:13:54 GMT -5
Mike Francessa had someone on his show say either yesterday, or the day before, that the NCAA's NET ranking was the work ranking system in any sport, at any level, in history. work??? Did you mean "worst?" |
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 28, 2018 17:13:32 GMT -5
I did! Sorry, multitasking.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 28, 2018 18:06:14 GMT -5
I know everyone has a "favorite" system. We'll see how this NET system develops.
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