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Post by dadominate on Nov 29, 2018 11:46:12 GMT -5
can any of our statistically-savvy posters provide the season +/- stats to date? if you could do it by game - or at least last night's game - that would be even more appreciated.
i think this is always an interesting statistic in general over the course of a sample size of at least a handful of games since it covers total offensive, defensive, intangible inputs that lead to scoring differentials, but i'm also curious to see if the singling out of austin butler by a few posters is supported by +/- data. butler has certainly shot poorly and seemed to struggle scoring around the hole against our better competition, as has floyd (to say the least) and basically everybody else not named jacob grandison (what a gem of a late-stage recruit by carmody and staff!). butler and floyd have also played good defense, amassing steals and blocks, respectively.
fortunately, i think butler and floyd will resume their strong play when we get into the pl when their strength and athleticism advantages come into play. the +/- stats would be appreciated nevertheless.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 29, 2018 12:03:00 GMT -5
There was a basketball website with such detailed information, but it went OOB a year or two ago. Sports-reference has O & D- ratings (WooGray often cites these) and I have seen +/- on "Live Stats" but I'll have to check if those are archived.
One thing I try to keep in mind is that for some players there is a built-in disadvantage, e.g. if your only role was to substitute for JF you'd never get the benefit of being on the floor with him....
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Post by hcpride on Nov 29, 2018 12:37:49 GMT -5
can any of our statistically-savvy posters provide the season +/- stats to date? if you could do it by game - or at least last night's game - that would be even more appreciated. i think this is always an interesting statistic in general over the course of a sample size of at least a handful of games since it covers total offensive, defensive, intangible inputs that lead to scoring differentials, but i'm also curious to see if the singling out of austin butler by a few posters is supported by +/- data. butler has certainly shot poorly and seemed to struggle scoring around the hole against our better competition, as has floyd (to say the least) and basically everybody else not named jacob grandison (what a gem of a late-stage recruit by carmody and staff!). butler and floyd have also played good defense, amassing steals and blocks, respectively. fortunately, i think butler and floyd will resume their strong play when we get into the pl when their strength and athleticism advantages come into play. the +/- stats would be appreciated nevertheless. AB is listed at 6'5"...even if that is accurate he is not necessarily a leaper and doesn't seem to have length so it is not too surprising he's rushing or getting blocked down low against our better competition. He does keep putting it up from there. As you note, he'll be just fine v PL competition and he is a very good cutter/hustler and can hit from the outside so he'll continue to do well under Carmody's system. JF's occasional disappearances (last night was an offensive head-scratcher) are a bit harder to explain. That being said, the play of both (+ Grandy) makes me very optimistic for PL competition this year. |
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Post by lou on Nov 29, 2018 12:47:57 GMT -5
Jehyve was playing against several 6'8"-6'11" guys, and all talented. No surprise to me that he had a tough night
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Post by hcpride on Nov 29, 2018 12:49:48 GMT -5
Jehyve was playing against several 6'8"-6'11" guys, and all talented. No surprise to me that he had a tough night No doubt. The head scratcher was number of attempted shots. I think it was 3. |
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Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 29, 2018 12:51:17 GMT -5
No doubt. The head scratcher was number of attempted shots. I think it was 3. 2. However, JF's ORtg and DRtg, so far, are both better than last year, according to sports-ref. |
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Post by hchoops on Nov 29, 2018 13:10:35 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Nov 29, 2018 13:13:04 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Nov 29, 2018 13:14:02 GMT -5
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Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 29, 2018 13:19:13 GMT -5
Demonstrates the severe limits of +/-. Players on the losing team almost all get minuses, LeSann is +2, Yeutter is +3, while Grandison is -11 and Floyd is -16. Silly. |
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Post by hchoops on Nov 29, 2018 13:35:11 GMT -5
Doesn’t this number just represent the total score differential during the minutes when each player is on the court ?
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Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 29, 2018 13:45:48 GMT -5
Doesn’t this number just represent the total score differential during the minutes when each player is on the court ? Yes, it does. Which is why it is of limited value in judging how players performed over the course of the entire game. |
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 29, 2018 13:48:10 GMT -5
I wonder if JF's recent success as a distributor has reduced his normal inclination to attack the hoop. Just a thought; probably reaching.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 29, 2018 15:02:58 GMT -5
can any of our statistically-savvy posters provide the season +/- stats to date? if you could do it by game - or at least last night's game - that would be even more appreciated. i think this is always an interesting statistic in general over the course of a sample size of at least a handful of games since it covers total offensive, defensive, intangible inputs that lead to scoring differentials, but i'm also curious to see if the singling out of austin butler by a few posters is supported by +/- data. butler has certainly shot poorly and seemed to struggle scoring around the hole against our better competition, as has floyd (to say the least) and basically everybody else not named jacob grandison (what a gem of a late-stage recruit by carmody and staff!). butler and floyd have also played good defense, amassing steals and blocks, respectively. fortunately, i think butler and floyd will resume their strong play when we get into the pl when their strength and athleticism advantages come into play. the +/- stats would be appreciated nevertheless. | Game | JF in | JF out |
| AB in | AB out
| | SHU | +21 | -9 |
| +9 | +3 | | Michigan | -16 | -3 |
| -16 | -3 | | Providence | -1 | -8 |
| -5 | -4 | | Stony Brook | +14 | 0 |
| +18 | -4 | | Siena | +9 | +3 |
| +13 | -1 | | Albany |
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| | | Harvard | -13 | +2 |
| -18 | +7 | | Total | +14 | -15 |
| +1 | -2 |
*Albany play-by-play stats not available.
Per these stats, Floyd has had a much more significant impact on the team than Butler.
Plus/minus can sometimes provide some value, but IMO is not a complete stat, particularly in a small sample size of one game.
I had put together a tracker to try and measure some of Floyd's impact, but without a consistent play-by-play source and format from game-to-game (thanks in large part to GoHC.com's rinky dink stat pages), there is not enough of a sample to fully capture that data. The Providence game was what drew me in to trying to take a look at this in a larger sample, because two amazing stats jumped out from that game:
1) 2FG% Defense -- w/ JF: 36.8%, w/out JF: 60.9% (+24%)
2) PC Layups+Dunks/FGA -- w/JF: 23.3%, w/out JF: 41.4% (+18%)
IMO, If we had a legitimate front court outside of just Floyd, we would have won that game. |
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Post by dadominate on Nov 29, 2018 18:32:28 GMT -5
can any of our statistically-savvy posters provide the season +/- stats to date? if you could do it by game - or at least last night's game - that would be even more appreciated. i think this is always an interesting statistic in general over the course of a sample size of at least a handful of games since it covers total offensive, defensive, intangible inputs that lead to scoring differentials, but i'm also curious to see if the singling out of austin butler by a few posters is supported by +/- data. butler has certainly shot poorly and seemed to struggle scoring around the hole against our better competition, as has floyd (to say the least) and basically everybody else not named jacob grandison (what a gem of a late-stage recruit by carmody and staff!). butler and floyd have also played good defense, amassing steals and blocks, respectively. fortunately, i think butler and floyd will resume their strong play when we get into the pl when their strength and athleticism advantages come into play. the +/- stats would be appreciated nevertheless. | Game | JF in | JF out |
| AB in | AB out
| | SHU | +21 | -9 |
| +9 | +3 | | Michigan | -16 | -3 |
| -16 | -3 | | Providence | -1 | -8 |
| -5 | -4 | | Stony Brook | +14 | 0 |
| +18 | -4 | | Siena | +9 | +3 |
| +13 | -1 | | Albany |
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| | | Harvard | -13 | +2 |
| -18 | +7 | | Total | +14 | -15 |
| +1 | -2 |
*Albany play-by-play stats not available.
Per these stats, Floyd has had a much more significant impact on the team than Butler.
Plus/minus can sometimes provide some value, but IMO is not a complete stat, particularly in a small sample size of one game.
I had put together a tracker to try and measure some of Floyd's impact, but without a consistent play-by-play source and format from game-to-game (thanks in large part to GoHC.com's rinky dink stat pages), there is not enough of a sample to fully capture that data. The Providence game was what drew me in to trying to take a look at this in a larger sample, because two amazing stats jumped out from that game:
1) 2FG% Defense -- w/ JF: 36.8%, w/out JF: 60.9% (+24%)
2) PC Layups+Dunks/FGA -- w/JF: 23.3%, w/out JF: 41.4% (+18%)
IMO, If we had a legitimate front court outside of just Floyd, we would have won that game. thanks, hchoops and bbc for the data. i bolded for emphasis the statement with which i am in full agreement. +/- can be helpful at evaluating performance, but it is not complete by any means (there is no such statistic, a combination of offensive and defensive rating probably being the best) and is only useful over the span of at least a few games. |
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