witz
Sophomore
Posts: 29 
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Post by witz on Feb 5, 2019 17:02:44 GMT -5
They NEVER play; comparing the season's stats to the roster, I see three that have not played or barely played (Lovisolo, Hart and Yeutter (2 minutes), while the other two have gotten nothing but garbage time minutes (Hargis (22) and Verbeek (18)). I'm sure i missed some news about an injury or two, and maybe there is a walk on amongst them, but was this year a compete recruiting fail for Carmody?? I recall reading an article before the season where he said nothing of this year's freshman when discussing the team's outlook. I though that was odd; i guess he knew already he was never gonna play them!
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Post by lou on Feb 5, 2019 17:06:21 GMT -5
Only Hargis and Verbeek are scholarship players. Why they don't play much is another story
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witz
Sophomore
Posts: 29
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Post by witz on Feb 5, 2019 17:17:13 GMT -5
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Post by bison137 on Feb 5, 2019 17:31:51 GMT -5
Yes, the three identified by Lou are walk-ons. It is not unusual to recruit a walk-on or two. It is unusual to bring in three in one class. |
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Post by hchoops on Feb 5, 2019 17:49:04 GMT -5
Yes, the three identified by Lou are walk-ons. It is not unusual to recruit a walk-on or two. It is unusual to bring in three in one class. One is a son of a former Crusader player. Doubtful that he was recruited. |
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Post by bison137 on Feb 5, 2019 17:58:07 GMT -5
Yes, the three identified by Lou are walk-ons. It is not unusual to recruit a walk-on or two. It is unusual to bring in three in one class. One is a son of a former Crusader player. Doubtful that he was recruited. Yes, I doubt it also. But I think the other two were likely recruited, although perhaps not per the NCAA definition of "recruit".. |
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Post by Xmassader on Feb 6, 2019 8:00:46 GMT -5
If you recall, at the end of last year, with the departures of 3 players and MP’s injury status, there may have been a maximum of 10 players available for practice (and perhaps fewer if one had an illness or minor injury). I suspect that the addition of the number of freshmen (scholarship or not) was designed, in part, to avoid that issue. Seems to have been a good idea with MP’s continued unavailability, the injuries to CN and MF and MZ’s and KC’s intermittent health issues.
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Post by Tom on Feb 6, 2019 9:18:34 GMT -5
They NEVER play; comparing the season's stats to the roster, I see three that have not played or barely played (Lovisolo, Hart and Yeutter (2 minutes), while the other two have gotten nothing but garbage time minutes (Hargis (22) and Verbeek (18)). I'm sure i missed some news about an injury or two, and maybe there is a walk on amongst them, but was this year a compete recruiting fail for Carmody?? I recall reading an article before the season where he said nothing of this year's freshman when discussing the team's outlook. I though that was odd; i guess he knew already he was never gonna play them! Verbeek has gotten some non-garbage minutes lately with the Faw injury I didn't see the game, but I believe Hargis got some non-garbage time at American (unless you consider the whole game to be garbage time |
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Post by timholycross on Feb 6, 2019 10:05:06 GMT -5
Anyone over 6-6 that Holy Cross recruits usually is going to be a project- in the case of these two their bodies simply are not ready for Division 1 basketball.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 6, 2019 12:18:48 GMT -5
Both Hargis and Verbeek seem to show some potential. Another year of development with conditioning and practice and they may well be able to supply minutes next year.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 6, 2019 12:22:51 GMT -5
Both Hargis and Verbeek seem to show some potential. What makes you say that? They have combined for 40 minutes the entire season. |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 6, 2019 12:57:40 GMT -5
Time on the court (or off) as a freshman does not, by itself, mean anything about a player's future potential. You omitted my second sentence which I believe address your question. That is an important qualifier. HC has had many players (most often big men) who did not show their true value and ability until their second or third year.  |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 6, 2019 13:11:22 GMT -5
Time on the court (or off) as a freshman does not, by itself, mean anything about a player's future potential. So there is no difference in the future potential of a freshman who barely got off the bench and played 50 minutes in his first season compared to one who was a starter and played 800 minutes? What? |
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 6, 2019 13:42:23 GMT -5
Looking back over the last twenty years or so, there have been only a few players who logged less than 40 minutes as freshmen and went on to contribute more meaningfully.. Matt Husek. Played only 10 minutes as a freshman, don't recall there being an injury to explain it. Josh Jones. Played just 24 minutes as a freshman - contributed 374 minutes off the bench as a senior. James Stowers. Played 32 minutes as a freshman, solid 500 minutes in both his sophmore and junior seasons. Greg McCarthy. 15 minutes as a freshman, then 1,000 minutes or so (and ~100 points) over the next three years off the bench.
Kyle Cruze (04-05) and Kevin Hyland (02-03) also in this group - but their lack of playing time was more understandable, since they debuted on very good, deep teams.
A note on Verbeek . . . He may be a "big" in terms of height, but he is not a traditional "big" in terms of style - he prefers to operate outside the paint.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 6, 2019 15:14:50 GMT -5
Time on the court (or off) as a freshman does not, by itself, mean anything about a player's future potential. So there is no difference in the future potential of a freshman who barely got off the bench and played 50 minutes in his first season compared to one who was a starter and played 800 minutes? What? That is not what I said. I said that BY ITSELF (notice that) it does not mean anything about future potential. You have to know about the rest of the team and their abilities to know more about what the playing time means. Of course, you also need to know the coach who recruited the player(s). If the player in question was recruited by BC and his staff, then the time may not matter because they can never be any good in the opinion of some. |
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Post by sader81 on Feb 6, 2019 15:26:50 GMT -5
Looking back over the last twenty years or so, there have been only a few players who logged less than 40 minutes as freshmen and went on to contribute more meaningfully.. Matt Husek. Played only 10 minutes as a freshman, don't recall there being an injury to explain it. Josh Jones. Played just 24 minutes as a freshman - contributed 374 minutes off the bench as a senior. James Stowers. Played 32 minutes as a freshman, solid 500 minutes in both his sophmore and junior seasons. Greg McCarthy. 15 minutes as a freshman, then 1,000 minutes or so (and ~100 points) over the next three years off the bench.
Kyle Cruze (04-05) and Kevin Hyland (02-03) also in this group - but their lack of playing time was more understandable, since they debuted on very good, deep teams.
A note on Verbeek . . . He may be a "big" in terms of height, but he is not a traditional "big" in terms of style - he prefers to operate outside the paint.
Floyd didn't play a whole lot as a frosh either. |
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Post by hcpride on Feb 6, 2019 15:30:50 GMT -5
I'd guess they are not very good (does not mean they are bad people or will never be good). Usually there is a walk-on that sees almost no time on a .500 team...this seems highly unusual to me.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 6, 2019 15:35:07 GMT -5
It would be one thing if we were a deep team with a lot of production from our junior and senior classes, but the fact that we are dead last in the country in terms of bench minutes, makes me wonder about the talent of the two scholarship freshmen. When CLS and Zignorski -- who have contributed very little -- are coming off the bench before Hargis and Verbeek, that's not a great sign.
That said, I hope they both develop over the summer and go onto great careers at HC.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 6, 2019 15:37:23 GMT -5
Fair enough SoV.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 6, 2019 16:21:07 GMT -5
First point: Is our team, perhaps, different than others in that we have a complicated offense and defense that is not quickly/easily picked up by freshmen?
Second point: Our freshmen last year played out of necessity, but they had easier competition, I think, than this year's freshmen. Last year, with Jehyve Floyd and Karl Charles as solid starters, the freshmen had to compete for minutes with Ziggy, CLS, and Jack Stevens. That, I'll suggest. is easier competition than Hargis and Verbeek face with JF, JG, CG, AB, MF, CN (injured), KC, plus Ziggy and CLS.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 6, 2019 16:22:51 GMT -5
KY:
1. I agree
2. I agree
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 6, 2019 16:26:53 GMT -5
Floyd didn't play a whole lot as a frosh either. Not a ton, but not insignificant. 29 G, 9.5 per
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 6, 2019 16:28:58 GMT -5
I don't write Hargis or Verbeek off long-term - just a little disappointed that they aren't able to help more right now.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 6, 2019 17:51:08 GMT -5
First point: Is our team, perhaps, different than others in that we have a complicated offense and defense that is not quickly/easily picked up by freshmen? American has the same offense as us and, in a blowout victory vs HC last Saturday, they started a freshman who scored more points (17) than the HC frosh have combined to score all year (10). Our defense sucks. If its complexity is causing otherwise talented players to not be able to contribute, that is an even bigger problem. |
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Post by bison137 on Feb 6, 2019 18:05:38 GMT -5
First point: Is our team, perhaps, different than others in that we have a complicated offense and defense that is not quickly/easily picked up by freshmen? American has the same offense as us and, in a blowout victory vs HC last Saturday, they started a freshman who scored more points (17) than the HC frosh have combined to score all year (10). Our defense sucks. If its complexity is causing otherwise talented players to not be able to contribute, that is an even bigger problem. Loyola also has the same offense, coached by a long-time protege of CBC. Their 1-3-1 is very similar as well. They have three freshmen who are playing 27 mpg, 19 mpg, and 14 mpg in PL play. |
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