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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 2, 2019 6:14:02 GMT -5
Picking up on lehighowl's post, the search firm hired to identify AD candidates apparently has been on campus the past week or so, identifying the qualities that HC wants to see in Pine's successor, and defining what are the priorities for the new AD, and athletics overall, going forward.
The selection committee will include students. Once interested candidates are identified, the process of conducting interviews and choosing the vnext AD will take about two months.
Some here surely will be sorely disappointed, but the college is not considering changing conferences, --nor is the college looking to reduce the number of sports offered. Apparently the college does perceive that some sports are underfunded, and will take steps to correct that.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 2, 2019 8:09:20 GMT -5
lehighowl, Thanks for your input. Welcome and please continue to drop in.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Mar 2, 2019 8:35:44 GMT -5
DFW, I don't agree that the PL has neutered Holy Cross athletics anymore than it has anyone else in the league. Ultimately, each school controls their fate within the league's framework. Holy Cross started to "neuter" Crusader athletics sometime in the mid to late 1960's. Their basketball program and football programs started to experience a rather sharp decline nationally around that time. Holy Cross football re-emerged when it re-classified to 1-AA. Hoops was a solid regional product and nothing more. Similar to MAAC foe Fordham. By the time they entered the PL I don't think they had the same clout as St. Joe's or La Salle who had the L-Train, Overton and Legler around that time. There was no way HC could continue at the 1-A based on the previous 15+ years at that level. The PL certainly did Crusader football no favors by forcing them to phase out scholarships. It also didn't help Colgate and Lehigh. Both of those programs had been nationally relevant in 1-AA before the PL. Lehigh went from being a force nationally under Whitehead and winning more than they lost to Delaware in the late 70's through the mid 80's to a middling "meh" until the late 90's. The one major thing that Lehigh and Colgate did that HC didn't do was re-invest in their programs when the PL accepted the auto-bid into the playoffs. Both programs elevated themselves to Holy Cross's level under Duffner and Carter (minus the '87 team) for several years following the league's decision to participate in the playoffs. It was also those two and Fordham that pushed for scholarships, not Holy Cross. I agree the PL has a couple of dumb rules that are major hurdles; specifically the red shirt rule and roster limits. It would be nice if a few powerful coaches and/or AD's would speak up a bit more on those self-imposed restrictions. The PL has proven it can produce one team MOST years that is nationally viable. Unfortunately, top to bottom the league as been dreadful for over a decade. I'm hopeful the current trajectory of HC, Lehigh moving on from the unfortunate Coen situation, Colgate's steadiness under Hunt and Fordham's ability to field really good teams at times can finally transform the PL into a multi-bid conference. I have full confidence that Colgate and Lehigh remain committed to having teams that can compete with the best in FCS. Gilmore's shortfalls at HC aside, it has been a very productive offseason in Bethlehem in the wake of a very tough 2018 campaign. I firmly believe Chesney will field successful teams before he departs. My question is will the administration allow him to build a program that's sustainable for the next guy. This should be a very interesting season in football. I think Colgate, Holy Cross, Lehigh, Georgetown and Fordham all enter 2019 with a legit chance to win the league. Interestingly, it is my understanding that Colgate never had football scholarships even in the 1980s.
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Post by princetoncrusader on Mar 2, 2019 8:51:05 GMT -5
Colgate didn't have scholarships but i believe their need-based financial aid packages were quite generous. I used to work for a major mutual fund complex. An institutional bond salesman who covered our account had played football at Colgate. He told me he received financial aid, even though his dad was a surgeon! I'm sure it was a token amount, but nevertheless. I also have a friend at my local golf club who played at the 'gate for 2 years, and then gave it up due to injury. His financial aid package changed to a smaller amount. Both players graduated in the mid to early 1980s.
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Post by sader1970 on Mar 2, 2019 9:03:57 GMT -5
So, essentially you are saying Holy Cross shot itself in the foot? Interesting but pretty sure we all know that Fr. Brooks destroyed Holy Cross athletics as it has been posted many times before here, so it must be true. The Patriot League was only icing on the cake which had already been baked.
1. I wonder what steps Holy Cross plans to take to "correct" the underfunding of sports. Another, more directed, fund-raising campaign? Taking from the general fund? If so, that is going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul. What areas will have reduced funding?
2. Couldn't care less about not changing conferences at this time. Start dominating the PL, if that's possible, and then I'll start to get antsy about changing. Being a PL bottom-feeder, which we've been for some time in almost all sports, doesn't get me wanting more.
3. As for AD, have heard from atop Mt. St. James that it may be further along than the above post and top candidates are two high-profile former HC athletes known in the Worcester community. Those are not unimpeachable sources though. Might be wishful thinking or speculation. It would address the issue/concern expressed here that an AD have a background and understanding of the Holy Cross culture and how to pick an AD who knows how to pick head coaches. At least one of these two was on the search committee that picked Chesney.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 2, 2019 10:26:35 GMT -5
So, essentially you are saying Holy Cross shot itself in the foot? Interesting but pretty sure we all know that Fr. Brooks destroyed Holy Cross athletics as it has been posted many times before here, so it must be true. The Patriot League was only icing on the cake which had already been baked. 1. I wonder what steps Holy Cross plans to take to "correct" the underfunding of sports. Another, more directed, fund-raising campaign? Taking from the general fund? If so, that is going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul. What areas will have reduced funding? 2. Couldn't care less about not changing conferences at this time. Start dominating the PL, if that's possible, and then I'll start to get antsy about changing. Being a PL bottom-feeder, which we've been for some time in almost all sports, doesn't get me wanting more .Recruiting expenses PL (including Fordham & GU) for 2017-18Men's teams: HC sp[ends the least of any of the PL football schools, and less than BostU, but more than AU and Loyola. (GU excluded from men's because of hoops recruiting $) For women's teams, HC spends less than Boston U, Bucknell, Colgate, Georgetown and Lehigh. Spends about the same as Fordham, Lafayette, and Loyola. AU spends the least ______________________ Total M/W athletically related fin aid 2017-18 / number of unduplicated athletesAU 5.4M / 248 BostU 15.5M / 575 Bucknell 14.0M / 728 Colgate 13.1M / 592 HC 12.2M / 711 Fordham 14.4M / 525 GU 9.4M $0 for football, and no Title IX bump for the women because of football. HC spends $700K more on women's fin aid than does GU. / 693 Lafayette 9.6M / 526 Lehigh 13.4M / 632 Loyola 6.5M / 385
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Post by gks on Mar 2, 2019 10:56:05 GMT -5
Picking up on lehighowl's post, the search firm hired to identify AD candidates apparently has been on campus the past week or so, identifying the qualities that HC wants to see in Pine's successor, and defining what are the priorities for the new AD, and athletics overall, going forward. The selection committee will include students. Once interested candidates are identified, the process of conducting interviews and choosing the vnext AD will take about two months. Some here surely will be sorely disappointed, but the college is not considering changing conferences, --nor is the college looking to reduce the number of sports offered. Apparently the college does perceive that some sports are underfunded, and will take steps to correct that. If the powers that be at Holy Cross can't figure out what qualities in the new AD by themselves without some stupid search firm they are doomed. Students should never be a part of the search process.
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Post by sader1970 on Mar 2, 2019 11:03:31 GMT -5
So, assuming these numbers are accurate - and I do trust Phreek when it comes to these things - some observations/opinions: 1. Something is askew when Holy Cross has 711 athletes and BU with 3, 4 5 times the student population has only 575 (yes, I recognize they don't have a football team). 2. Bucknell is the "jock school" of the PL with 728 athletes (as an aside, I caught and corrected autocorrect that initially changed "jock" to "joke" but "joke school" would have offended some posters here). Fordham not far behind in terms of dollars spent. 3. AU apparently doesn't care much about athletics with a much larger student population and a much smaller number of athletes and dollars spent. Again, I know they have no football team. I still question why they are in the PL (sorry NJJ). They seem to have little in common with the rest of the PL. Of course, a lot of HC posters also think Holy Cross has little in common with the PL.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 2, 2019 12:36:49 GMT -5
With 711 athletes amongst just 3000 kids one can argue we are the 'jock school' of the PL. I remember two years ag commenting here that some of my academic students who have heard of Holy Cross think of it as a jock/social justice school. A few posters were perplexed as to how we could have that reputation if we were not very good at sports (no argument on the social justice perception, BTW). Between the enormous and well-publicized expenditures on the Luth (not to mention current ratio of student athletes) and the very well-publicized social justice issues up at HC, I see how some might categorize HC as a jock/social justice school. That is not necessarily a bad thing and may, in fact, be our current brand.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 2, 2019 12:53:12 GMT -5
Are "warriors" (as in SJW) any less violent than "Crusaders?"
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Post by moose1970 on Mar 2, 2019 13:35:57 GMT -5
Are "warriors" (as in SJW) any less violent than "Crusaders?" not sure about that but certainly are a lot better at playing basketball.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 2, 2019 13:56:31 GMT -5
Picking up on lehighowl's post, the search firm hired to identify AD candidates apparently has been on campus the past week or so, identifying the qualities that HC wants to see in Pine's successor, and defining what are the priorities for the new AD, and athletics overall, going forward. The selection committee will include students. Once interested candidates are identified, the process of conducting interviews and choosing the vnext AD will take about two months.Some here surely will be sorely disappointed, but the college is not considering changing conferences, --nor is the college looking to reduce the number of sports offered. Apparently the college does perceive that some sports are underfunded, and will take steps to correct that. Pine announced he was leaving almost 3 months ago, and we’re still over 2 months away from hiring his replacement? What an absolute disgrace.
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Post by sader1970 on Mar 2, 2019 14:05:59 GMT -5
I posted previously that in a halftime interview during a women's game on the radio that Fr. B said they "were in no hurry" to replace Nate. That was many weeks ago. At the time I speculated that was because he felt that Brendan Sullivan was experienced and knew the Nate Pine ropes in order to keep things flowing and/or that Brendan had the inside track to replace Nate permanently so that there would be consistency and continuity. In addition, if he felt Brendan could handle the job as interim, it'd save some salary bucks during the gap. That Brendan was the guy to pull the trigger on Gibbons, it seems to reinforce the thought that Fr. B trusts and has confidence in him.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 2, 2019 14:11:47 GMT -5
I posted previously that in a halftime interview during a women's game on the radio that Fr. B said they "were in no hurry" to replace Nate. That was many weeks ago. At the time I speculated that was because he felt that Brendan Sullivan was experienced and knew the Nate Pine ropes in order to keep things flowing and/or that Brendan had the inside track to replace Nate permanently so that there would be consistency and continuity. In addition, if he felt Brendan could handle the job as interim, it'd save some salary bucks during the gap. That Brendan was the guy to pull the trigger on Gibbons, it seems to reinforce the thought that Fr. B trusts and has confidence in him. Does it reinforce that Borroughs trusts Sullivan, or that Borroughs is incompetent and/or totally apathetic towards athletics? My money’s on the latter.
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Post by sader1970 on Mar 2, 2019 14:16:01 GMT -5
Why do you not consider that both thoughts might be correct? He trusts Brendan because he is incompetent?
But I don't know that Brendan is incompetent and, really, neither do you. Unless and until he gets the job permanently and puts his own "stamp" on the position, then we'd have a better idea.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 14:18:01 GMT -5
I posted previously that in a halftime interview during a women's game on the radio that Fr. B said they "were in no hurry" to replace Nate. That was many weeks ago. At the time I speculated that was because he felt that Brendan Sullivan was experienced and knew the Nate Pine ropes in order to keep things flowing and/or that Brendan had the inside track to replace Nate permanently so that there would be consistency and continuity. In addition, if he felt Brendan could handle the job as interim, it'd save some salary bucks during the gap. That Brendan was the guy to pull the trigger on Gibbons, it seems to reinforce the thought that Fr. B trusts and has confidence in him. Does it reinforce that Borroughs trusts Sullivan, or that Borroughs is incompetent and/or totally apathetic towards athletics? My money’s on the latter. Judging from the monthly HC Magazines, I think Borroughs would prefer to redirect all athletic funds into social justice issues and being "multi-cultural". haha
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Post by hcgrad94 on Mar 2, 2019 14:51:26 GMT -5
Picking up on lehighowl's post, the search firm hired to identify AD candidates apparently has been on campus the past week or so, identifying the qualities that HC wants to see in Pine's successor, and defining what are the priorities for the new AD, and athletics overall, going forward. The selection committee will include students. Once interested candidates are identified, the process of conducting interviews and choosing the vnext AD will take about two months. Some here surely will be sorely disappointed, but the college is not considering changing conferences, --nor is the college looking to reduce the number of sports offered. Apparently the college does perceive that some sports are underfunded, and will take steps to correct that. If the powers that be at Holy Cross can't figure out what qualities in the new AD by themselves without some stupid search firm they are doomed. Students should never be a part of the search process. Virtually every Division 1 director of Athletics search has a firm involved. It's just the way things work in that world in 2019. So if we are doomed so are virtually every Power 5 school that has hired and AD in the last 30 years.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 2, 2019 15:11:19 GMT -5
If the powers that be at Holy Cross can't figure out what qualities in the new AD by themselves without some stupid search firm they are doomed. Students should never be a part of the search process. Virtually every Division 1 director of Athletics search has a firm involved. It's just the way things work in that world in 2019. So if we are doomed so are virtually every Power 5 school that has hired and AD in the last 30 years. Hiring DHR search firm is what landed us Pine, who then used DHR (“You rub my back and I’ll rub yours”) to hire Carmody.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 2, 2019 15:47:53 GMT -5
Are "warriors" (as in SJW) any less violent than "Crusaders?" not sure about that but certainly are a lot better at playing basketball. Do Social Justice Warriors (SJW) actually play basketball?
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Post by hcgrad94 on Mar 2, 2019 16:07:40 GMT -5
Virtually every Division 1 director of Athletics search has a firm involved. It's just the way things work in that world in 2019. So if we are doomed so are virtually every Power 5 school that has hired and AD in the last 30 years. Hiring DHR search firm is what landed us Pine, who then used DHR (“You rub my back and I’ll rub yours”) to hire Carmody. Yes. Think this will be a different firm that has helped a number of our peer schools w searches.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 2, 2019 16:22:44 GMT -5
If a search firm was being used, they should have been on campus in the first week of January and we should have had a new AD weeks ago.
There is no excuse for Borroughs dragging his feet this long.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 2, 2019 16:25:14 GMT -5
If a search firm was being used, they should have been on campus in the first week of January and we should have had a new AD weeks ago. There is no excuse for Borroughs dragging his feet this long. Fr B has other issues he has to deal with, so maybe he doesn’t even care about a new AD and is content with Sullivan as an interim.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 2, 2019 16:34:34 GMT -5
Is wanting to get the best person possible and taking the time to do it an "excuse?"
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 2, 2019 16:36:52 GMT -5
Yet another thread driven completely off the rails of the initial topic.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 2, 2019 16:40:05 GMT -5
Is wanting to get the best person possible and taking the time to do it an "excuse?" So you think that it takes five months to “get the best person possible?” That is a pretty outrageous amount of leeway. I am all for hiring the best person for the job (which would certainly be an improvement from the last AD search), but there is absolutely no excuse for taking five months to do it.
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