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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 7, 2019 21:45:32 GMT -5
...and retire as head coach.
Holy Cross just finished dead last in the PL and had their fourth consecutive losing season under Bill Carmody. By solely a record standpoint, Milan Brown did a better job through four seasons than Carmody. Hard to believe, I know.
Nate Pine was flat out fooled. He hired a guy who came from two highly academic schools (Princeton and Northrwestern), but never successfully recruited. Pine was bamboozled.
Holy Cross now finds itself in an impossible situation. We don’t have a full time AD, and I doubt that Sullivan has the ability to fire Carmody.
You would hope that given what has transpired the past four seaons, along with the situation Carmody currently finds himself in, he would do the right thing and walk away from this job. He knows how this works.
I don’t think this will happen because Carmody has an ego where he believes he’s smarter than everyone else, but we can only hope.
Another season with Carmody is another season backwards.
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Post by crosspride on Mar 7, 2019 21:57:09 GMT -5
An very small buyout initiated by the college, with Carmody saying publicly he’s retiring, is the most logical next step for HC basketball imho.
Would Love HC70s take on this. He was spot on last time around.
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 7, 2019 22:02:13 GMT -5
So many just think it's that easy to find the right coach to turn this around - Good luck ! It's hit or miss at the low-mid major level with our salary structure and more 'misses' than hits - we have a good class coming in and the staff is working hard on that big man who's been mentioned many times here. Let's get out of their way and let them work.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 7, 2019 22:09:22 GMT -5
Right on, SOV.
Carmody is just not interested in the key areas where we need drastic improvement to turn this program around — gameplanning, player development, and recruiting.
Despite a 250-293 (.460) record over the last 17 seasons, including 98-194 (.336) in conference, Carmody still thinks that he has all of the answers.
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letsgohc
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 80
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Post by letsgohc on Mar 7, 2019 22:24:27 GMT -5
Carmody has been a major MISS. I vote cut ties now and hope next coach isn't another P.T. Barnum.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 7, 2019 22:40:33 GMT -5
I don't have my pitchfork and torch ready but SOV does make an interesting point. If you show up at a recruit's door and say I'm from Princeton/Northwestern you might not learn to recruit as well as if you showed up from Putzville U. HC isn't Putzville, but with our challenges we do need strong effective recruiting from the whole coaching staff.
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Post by possum on Mar 7, 2019 22:46:09 GMT -5
I've often wondered who put Pine onto Carmody as It's hard to believe he would have had personal knowledge of his qualifications. It almost seemed as if the hire was in place when Brown was fired. Don't often see a coach from outside the system hired 13 days after the previous coach was fired. Pretty obvious little or no search for other candidates was done prior to the hire. The question now is whether Carmody is willing to walk away from a years salary or will just wait and see if the school makes a move. Agree with SOV waiting till next year just delays getting the program the re-start that's needed. Hopefully whomever makes the next hire will have a philosophy regarding the fundamental principles that will define the program and find the right guy to implement the plan.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 7, 2019 22:49:24 GMT -5
Looks very similar to another thread,but SoV should do the right thing ...and retire as a poster.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 7, 2019 22:51:27 GMT -5
I've often wondered who put Pine onto Carmody as It's hard to believe he would have had personal knowledge of his qualifications. It almost seemed as if the hire was in place when Brown was fired. Don't often see a coach from outside the system hired 13 days after the previous coach was fired. Pretty obvious little or no search for other candidates was done prior to the hire. Pine had the chance to hire Kevin Willard after the Big East tournament that year, but sabotaged it because he wouldn’t have received the credit for the hire that he craved (because it would have gone to RW). Instead, the final candidates were Carmody and Craig Robinson, who would win the press conference but were both poor candidates. Robinson still hasn’t been hired by anyone else, and Carmody would like have been in the same boat if it wasn’t for Pine.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 7, 2019 23:21:24 GMT -5
Looks very similar to another thread,but SoV should do the right thing ...and retire as a poster. Why?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 7, 2019 23:26:07 GMT -5
I've often wondered who put Pine onto Carmody as It's hard to believe he would have had personal knowledge of his qualifications. It almost seemed as if the hire was in place when Brown was fired. Don't often see a coach from outside the system hired 13 days after the previous coach was fired. Pretty obvious little or no search for other candidates was done prior to the hire. Pine had the chance to hire Kevin Willard after the Big East tournament that year, but sabotaged it because he wouldn’t have received the credit for the hire that he craved (because it would have gone to RW). Instead, the final candidates were Carmody and Craig Robinson, who would win the press conference but were both poor candidates. Robinson still hasn’t been hired by anyone else, and Carmody would like have been in the same boat if it wasn’t for Pine. What do you think Kevin Willard makes as Seton Hall coach? Do you think HC would have been able to afford, say, a 25% raise to entice him away from Seton Hall?
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Post by hc87 on Mar 7, 2019 23:32:49 GMT -5
I think we should wait and fire Carmody mid-season next year....seemed to work out for the football program
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 7, 2019 23:46:43 GMT -5
Pine had the chance to hire Kevin Willard after the Big East tournament that year, but sabotaged it because he wouldn’t have received the credit for the hire that he craved (because it would have gone to RW). Instead, the final candidates were Carmody and Craig Robinson, who would win the press conference but were both poor candidates. Robinson still hasn’t been hired by anyone else, and Carmody would like have been in the same boat if it wasn’t for Pine. What do you think Kevin Willard makes as Seton Hall coach? Do you think HC would have been able to afford, say, a 25% raise to entice him away from Seton Hall? His job was in jeopardy at that time and Seton Hall is one of the toughest places to win in the Big East. The opportunity for long term stability at HC (in a much cheaper area to live) with the potential for alums to sweeten the pot on his contract, as they did for RW, would have been appealing at that time. With competent decision makers we could have had either Mark Daigneault or Kevin Willard as the head coach right now, but instead we’re left with this disaster. Sad.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 7, 2019 23:57:15 GMT -5
What do you think Kevin Willard makes as Seton Hall coach? Do you think HC would have been able to afford, say, a 25% raise to entice him away from Seton Hall? His job was in jeopardy at that time and Seton Hall is one of the toughest places to win in the Big East. The opportunity for long term stability at HC (in a much cheaper area to live) with the potential for alums to sweeten the pot on his contract, as they did for RW, would have been appealing at that time. With competent decision makers we could have had either Mark Daigneault or Kevin Willard as the head coach right now, but instead we’re left with this disaster. Sad. Pine was never going to do this because it wouldn’t have been “his hire.” The basketball program is in a really bad position now.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 8, 2019 0:02:57 GMT -5
Craig Robinson would have a coaching position...if it wasn't for the twenty-second amendment.😜
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Post by hc87 on Mar 8, 2019 0:05:16 GMT -5
We are what we are....no coach at HC is really going to be that successful....we nearly beat the "flagship hoop school" in the PL on the road tonight with the trainwreck of a season we had this year.
It is what it is boys...we are at the oxymoronic level of low-mid major basketball....not many really care and to pay a head coach $300K to do so is almost sinful imo.
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Post by cmo on Mar 8, 2019 6:15:38 GMT -5
There are about 25 people that really care if HC wins (the players and us psychos who post here) and none of them/us are in decision making positions to do anything about it.
The BOT doesn’t care. No one in Fenwick cares. The student body doesn’t care. The staff seems apathetic. There is No AD.
If it’s not Blaney or Willard or someone of their ilk running the search committee, then don’t bother. I wouldn’t want the current decision makers running a concession stand or parking lot (which we know they’re incapable of), let alone a coaching search.
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Post by alum on Mar 8, 2019 6:28:28 GMT -5
Everybody here who would quit a guaranteed pay $350,000 per year job because one group of customers are unhappy, raise your hand?
Just as I thought.
Oh, and if his wife is not 65 (not really sure) he’s probably not giving a job with health insurance right now.
if it’s time for him to go, fire and pay him.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 8, 2019 8:13:43 GMT -5
Everybody here who would quit a guaranteed pay $350,000 per year job because one group of customers are unhappy, raise your hand? Just as I thought. Oh, and if his wife is not 65 (not really sure) he’s probably not giving a job with health insurance right now. if it’s time for him to go, fire and pay him. I don’t think anyone would give up that amount of money, but the College should be able to facilitate some type of compromise. Give Carmody and his wife whatever they need for healthcare, negotiate that number down to a more reasonable amount, pay off the rest of his lease in Worcester, etc. This would allow Carmody to “retire” without the embarrassment of coming back for another poor season next year and not having his contract renewed/getting fired Carmody doesn’t even look like he’s fully engaged in games, so I can’t imagine how little interest he has in hitting the recruiting trail in the spring and summer, putting the players through individual workouts and drills during summer school, etc., and while he would be too arrogant to admit it, he has to know that the team he has coming back next year just isn’t going to get the job done. It’s time to go enjoy the Jersey Shore.
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Post by gks on Mar 8, 2019 8:24:00 GMT -5
I really like Coach Carmody. His candor and honesty are refreshing in this day and age. He seems like a very nice guy.
It is time for a change yes but will the administration have the stomach to bring in someone like a Bob Chesney. Young, brash, and outside the safety net that HC likes to hire from.
Then again Holy Cross has no AD right now so.....
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Post by alum on Mar 8, 2019 8:29:12 GMT -5
Everybody here who would quit a guaranteed pay $350,000 per year job because one group of customers are unhappy, raise your hand? Just as I thought. Oh, and if his wife is not 65 (not really sure) he’s probably not giving a job with health insurance right now. if it’s time for him to go, fire and pay him. I don’t think anyone would give up that amount of money, but the College should be able to facilitate some type of compromise. Give Carmody and his wife whatever they need for healthcare, negotiate that number down to a more reasonable amount, pay off the rest of his lease in Worcester, etc. This would allow Carmody to “retire” w ithout the embarrassment of coming back for another poor season next year and not having his contract renewed/getting firedCarmody doesn’t even look like he’s fully engaged in games, so I can’t imagine how little interest he has in hitting the recruiting trail in the spring and summer, putting the players through individual workouts and drills during summer school, etc., and while he would be too arrogant to admit it, he has to know that the team he has coming back next year just isn’t going to get the job done. It’s time to go enjoy the Jersey Shore. Does Bill Carmody look like a guy that is going to be flustered if he gets fired? It has happened before and I think he understands that that goes with the job and the paycheck.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 8, 2019 8:44:32 GMT -5
The facts that the women's coaching issue is more pressing AND there is no AD probably saves Carmody's butt for another season unless he wants to get out.
My opinion at this point: without a solid plan to improve the program that goes beyond the coaching staff, getting a new coach now is worth as much as getting one in a year or two. Not worth much at all.
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Post by alum on Mar 8, 2019 8:48:27 GMT -5
The facts that the women's coaching issue is more pressing AND there is no AD probably saves Carmody's butt for another season unless he wants to get out. I agree one hundred percent. Let me also suggest that, per another thread on this board, if the College is becoming "need aware," perhaps it ought not be paying two men's basketball coaches for a season?
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Post by rickii on Mar 8, 2019 9:29:14 GMT -5
Looks very similar to another thread,but SoV should do the right thing ...and retire as a poster. Or tune it down a notch.
Nuts how some say Carmody can't recruit and in the same breath it's stated we have a good class coming in. After all, it's so easy to recruit to today's Holy Cross, right? Oh wait....the LAC factor. The building has been open 1 year....maybe that's how we landed the two pups incoming....maybe ?
Wait, how come Bucknell does better ? Gee, could it be maybe because they built their facilities years ago while the previous administrative dopes ignored how far we'd fallen behind ? Oh and bye the bye, despite the LAC, their facilities are still better.
But wait wait, look at Colgate ! Well gee II, their facilities aside, they have totally embarrassed HC, and again our totally inept past administrations, in athletic funding, managing TITLE IV, aggressive scheduling and brand recognition.
Pine inherited a total and colossal athletic mess that was decades behind everyone in sight. The student population, save for about maybe a couple hundred non-athletes, was and still is devoid of the college athletic experience factor within their lives....i.e. CULTURE.
HC is in the infant stages of someday being an attractive destination for aspiring young coaches ( see our first in Chesney ). When Carmody was hired the program was a mess and the LAC was an artist rendering. That doesn't get turned around in a snap.
I'll stop the rant now....but I'll ad this....
I've avoided this subject purposely for the reason that it's pretty damn low to zero in on Bill Carmody at a time when he and his family are enduring the most God awful challenge that in the big picture, dwarfs the highs and lows of the basketball program.
Now, go ahead and continue this crap if you must.
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Post by res on Mar 8, 2019 9:37:17 GMT -5
Why would someone "compromise" when they have a signed contract? To save face? Coaches get fired all the time, there's usually no shame in that. If you guys are bound and determined to get rid of him, or more to the point, if the College is bound and determined to get rid of him, then pay him.
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