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Post by rgs318 on May 26, 2019 9:23:40 GMT -5
I know of many gay couples (and a few lesbian couples). They and their relationships - IMHO - can save as fine examples of Christ's love for the Church. I admit that in this regard I depart from the judgements made by the men who have run the Church over the years and, on this issue, I try to follow the admonition..."judge not, lest you yourself be judged."
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Post by rgs318 on May 26, 2019 9:39:28 GMT -5
Congratulations to this lovely couple. There was a nice write-up a few years ago about a Holy Cross alumna (I think that is the singular of alumnae) who was Catholic but went on to become an Episcopal Priest because of course Catholics don't have women Priests. I can't remember if it was in Crossroads or somewhere else I read it. Also, about 20-25 years ago I flew from California and sat with a man and his wife who would be connecting to Florida at the one stop. The man was dressed in clerical garb so I asked if he was a minister or an Episcopal Priest. He said no, he was a Catholic Priest. My jaw dropped so he explained he was ordained as a Presbytertian Minister and because the Catholic Church recognizes the high quality of Presbyterian Seminary preparation, Ministers can make a lateral transfer and become Catholic Priests. He said if the transferring Presbyterian Minister has a wife and children, they come along with him. He said because he had a family his Parish or Diocese paid for a house separate from the rectory that housed other Priests. He said his deal was not as financially generous as the rectory but that the other non-married Priests felt it was more generous than their deal at the rectory. It really sounded like any other employee complaining about inequities at his workplace. I never got around to researching the validity of his claims, although both husband and wife were credible and friendly. Perhaps there is a poster here who would know if this Church policy was accurate back then and still is now? Since 1980, it has been easier to move from being an ordained episcopal priest (married or unmarried) to become a Catholic Priest. However, It is also possible for ministers in oher faiths to apply indivudally for such permission. That may be what your friend did. "In a 1980 statement, Pope John Paul II allowed an exception for married Episcopal clergy who wanted to become Catholic priests. Since then, Vatican officials also have considered requests from members of other Christian denominations."
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Post by sader1970 on May 26, 2019 10:11:30 GMT -5
My understanding is that married clerics who convert to Catholicism and become priests, the family comes with them and, like permanent deacons in the Catholic church, if they are to later become widowed are not allowed to marry again.
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Post by longsuffering on May 26, 2019 10:38:04 GMT -5
I do not believe there is an ability for female Episcopal Priests to become Catholic Priests but this would be the smart way for a Pope to open the window a tiny crack. Catholic Priests can't marry and Catholic Priests can't be women, but married Episcopal Priests can become Catholic Priests and stay married so the change to allow Women Episcopal Priests to become Catholic Priests and stay women would not be precedent breaking, but rather precedent confirming. Or at least a Pope could say that with a yawn and move on.
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Post by Chu Chu on May 26, 2019 10:57:15 GMT -5
So far, I believe that only Lutheran and Episcopal (Anglican) clergy have been able to switch.
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Post by longsuffering on May 26, 2019 12:53:57 GMT -5
So far, I believe that only Lutheran and Episcopal (Anglican) clergy have been able to switch. I googled the question and believe you are correct. My airplane seatmate must have been a Lutheran Minister before converting.
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Post by rgs318 on May 27, 2019 8:52:39 GMT -5
I had the privilege of taking sunset pictures for a lesbian couple on their honeymoon in Hawaii some years back. It was quite an honor. (...and I hope the pictures were good enough to mark that event for them!)
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Post by purplenurple on May 29, 2019 15:14:52 GMT -5
I do not believe there is an ability for female Episcopal Priests to become Catholic Priests but this would be the smart way for a Pope to open the window a tiny crack. Catholic Priests can't marry and Catholic Priests can't be women, but married Episcopal Priests can become Catholic Priests and stay married so the change to allow Women Episcopal Priests to become Catholic Priests and stay women would not be precedent breaking, but rather precedent confirming. Or at least a Pope could say that with a yawn and move on. Eastern Catholic priests can marry. The knowledge of Eastern Catholicism is quite limited in the US in large part due to the efforts of the Latin Rite church, who did not allow those priests to marry or interfered with their pastoral work once in the USA. As a result many Eastern Catholics converted to Orthodoxy.
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Post by longsuffering on May 30, 2019 20:25:44 GMT -5
Eastern Catholic Priests can not marry after ordination, so it's smart to find a mate early. If married before ordination the wife stays during your Priesthood - but no trade-ins.😉
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Post by Tom on May 31, 2019 7:59:30 GMT -5
Eastern Catholic Priests can not marry after ordination, so it's smart to find a mate early. If married before ordination the wife stays during your Priesthood - but no trade-ins.😉 Once upon a time I heard something to the effect that the Sacrament of Holy Orders was an impediment to marriage, but the Sacrament of Marriage was not an impediment to Holy Orders. More simply, there is some liturgical reason (I have no idea what) that says a priest can't get married. However the concept that a married person can't be ordained is a made up rule kind of like not eating meat of Fridays. This probably had more to do with the finances of a village of middle age era peasants supporting an entire family than the desire for a priest not to be torn between needs of family and needs of his flock. Acknowledging the fact that not ordaining men is a made up rule opens the door for Eastern Rite priests, converted ministers being priests and widowers becoming priests. All of which happens. Becoming a permanent deacon is some level of Holy Orders and most of these guys are married, however, they are not allowed to re-marry if they are widowered.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 2, 2019 8:51:52 GMT -5
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Post by moose1970 on Jun 2, 2019 11:22:28 GMT -5
" He also supposedly said he was aware of sexual abuse of minors by priests in the diocese of Pittsburgh, from which he came, but said it was not his responsibility to investigate such cases. " So Bishop Tobin knew that children were being sexually abused by priests in Pittsburgh but he was not responsible to investigate??? If that is true he should be laicized and removed from public ministry as was former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 2, 2019 11:45:33 GMT -5
As someone who has been in Bishop Tobin's Providence flock for almost exactly as long as he's been here (both of us arriving from Ohio to the Ocean State, us beating him here by about a year) and having met him once or twice with one being a very extended conversation over lunch, I have slowly come to the conclusion that while he may believe firmly what he states, I cannot shake the impression his audience is the Vatican (not so much the person of Pope Francis) and looking for ways to publicly get his name out there with the hope of becoming a cardinal. He seems purposely controversial. He's got a healthy enough ego that he never misses a chance to antagonize the people in his Rhode Island diocese by making a big play about flying his Steelers' flag and being critical of the Pats. He definitely doesn't try to get along with people, especially not the local politicians [not that there's anything wrong with that! ] Would be happy to trade even up with Worcester.
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Post by moose1970 on Jun 2, 2019 13:21:16 GMT -5
As someone who has been in Bishop Tobin's Providence flock for almost exactly as long as he's been here (both of us arriving from Ohio to the Ocean State, us beating him here by about a year) and having met him once or twice with one being a very extended conversation over lunch, I have slowly come to the conclusion that while he may believe firmly what he states, I cannot shake the impression his audience is the Vatican (not so much the person of Pope Francis) and looking for ways to publicly get his name out there with the hope of becoming a cardinal. He seems purposely controversial. He's got a healthy enough ego that he never misses a chance to antagonize the people in his Rhode Island diocese by making a big play about flying his Steelers' flag and being critical of the Pats. He definitely doesn't try to get along with people, especially not the local politicians [not that there's anything wrong with that! ] Would be happy to trade even up with Worcester. " Would be happy to trade even up with Worcester." NO DEAL! He's all yours to keep.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 2, 2019 13:47:45 GMT -5
Hey, Moose, if you are still in the Bay area - "you got no say!"
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Post by CHC8485 on Jun 2, 2019 15:17:57 GMT -5
SMH. Do these guys not remember that Jesus spoke to, ate with, and welcomed tax collectors, prostitutes, lepers, the woman caught in adultery and all manner of sinners, not to mention the Samaritan woman at the well? Their lives were converted through personal engagement not by marginalizing them and pronouncing to the world how sinful they were.
And at 71 and just 4 years from the age for mandatorily submitting his resignation - which the Pope is free to accept or not - the only thing Tobin’s pronouncements are likely to result in is not a red hat but a rapid acceptance of that resignation, especially if Francis is still Pope in 4 years.
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Post by moose1970 on Jun 2, 2019 15:42:55 GMT -5
Hey, Moose, if you are still in the Bay area - "you got no say!" i think that i will consult with my counsel, larry i, on the question of standing!!!
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 2, 2019 16:21:02 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 2, 2019 17:06:17 GMT -5
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 2, 2019 17:59:38 GMT -5
Interesting, too, that in this morning's homily, our pastor without directly mentioning the bishop's tweet also talked about how the Church is made up of diverse persons and we are one church. I suspected he was diplomatically speaking against the bishop (he is a msgr.). Diplomacy is not Bishop Tobin's strong suit nor has he learned to "disagree, agreeably."
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Post by hc87 on Jun 2, 2019 18:32:31 GMT -5
Bishop Tobin is exhibit A on why the Church is dying in this country....particularly with people undah 40 or so...church attendance, church activity etc.has cratered in my neck of the woods compared to when I was growing up in the 1970s, 1980s etc. I'm sure this is replicated throughout most Catholic Dioceses around the country.
Attitudes and beliefs from people like Bishop Tobin and others of his ilk are only hastening the Church's demise in this country.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 2, 2019 20:32:27 GMT -5
"Hurry up or we won't get a seat in Church!" If I had a nickel for everytime that was said to me on Sunday morning as a kid I could...afford meat once in a while now. There was a family that sold the Sunday newspapers out of the back of a station wagon after each Sunday Mass. They sold out each Mass and reloaded for the next one.
Cardinal Cushing and Cardinal Spellman are not walking through that door.
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Post by hc87 on Jun 3, 2019 9:56:24 GMT -5
A little blasphemous perhaps, but one of my favorite bits of comedian Steve Sweeney is him doing Cardinal Cushing reciting the rosary on the radio like a horestrack announcahh. Laughter is good for the soul.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 3, 2019 11:05:20 GMT -5
A little blasphemous perhaps, but one of my favorite bits of comedian Steve Sweeney is him doing Cardinal Cushing reciting the rosary on the radio like a horestrack announcahh. Laughter is good for the soul. You are to listen to the very end!
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Post by hc87 on Jun 3, 2019 20:27:02 GMT -5
That is too funny pp....thanks for posting!!!
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