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Post by hchoops on Aug 26, 2019 12:04:07 GMT -5
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 26, 2019 12:11:30 GMT -5
"Concern: 'The unknown of how we will handle and manage the group's internal expectations." Translation: We know we're supposed to win the conference.
Can't wait for the day Holy Cross has this "concern" at the top of its list of problems.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Aug 26, 2019 15:20:58 GMT -5
Langel has been one of the best head coaches the PL has ever seen, IMO.
What a remarkable job he has done in Hamilton.
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Post by bison137 on Aug 26, 2019 15:31:12 GMT -5
Langel has been one of the best head coaches the PL has ever seen, IMO. What a remarkable job he has done in Hamilton. Agree. St. Joes will regret its decision to hire Billy Lange as head coach instead of Langel. |
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Post by CHC8485 on Aug 26, 2019 15:34:36 GMT -5
Lifetime record 114–142 (.445) and 67–69 (.493)
He's done a good job the last 2 years, (could say 3 if you're talking about getting the current senior class recruited) but what about the 6 years before that? I'd pump the brakes a bit on the best the PL has ever seen.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Aug 26, 2019 15:43:17 GMT -5
“One of the” best is different than “the” best.
Let’s also not lose sight of just how bad Colgate was before Langel was hired under Emmett Davis. One of the toughest places in the country to win. It’s not all that surprising it too him several years to get things going up there.
Pat Flannery is the clear number one.
Willard probably number two.
Who’s next? Jeff Jones? Brett Reed? Fran O?
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Post by hchoops on Aug 26, 2019 16:00:40 GMT -5
“One of the” best is different than “the” best. Let’s also not lose sight of just how bad Colgate was before Langel was hired under Emmett Davis. One of the toughest places in the country to win. It’s not all that surprising it too him several years to get things going up there. Pat Flannery is the clear number one. Willard probably number two. Who’s next? Jeff Jones? Brett Reed? Fran O? Blaney was 73-44 with one PLC and a defeat in OT in another final. in four years. |
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Aug 26, 2019 16:16:46 GMT -5
What's amazing to me (maybe it shouldn't be) is Colgate's board hasn't had a basketball post since March 31st. That team deserves more support.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 26, 2019 16:20:15 GMT -5
Dave Paulsen has to be in the conversation. 134-94 over seven years, four regular season titles, two NCAA appearances, two NITs.
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Post by bison137 on Aug 26, 2019 16:30:24 GMT -5
“One of the” best is different than “the” best. Let’s also not lose sight of just how bad Colgate was before Langel was hired under Emmett Davis. One of the toughest places in the country to win. It’s not all that surprising it too him several years to get things going up there. Pat Flannery is the clear number one. Willard probably number two. Who’s next? Jeff Jones? Brett Reed? Fran O? Yes, Langel inherited a mess - a team dominated by seniors who weren't very good. Also when he arrived they had exactly one incoming freshman - and he wasn't much of a prospect. One thing to remember is that Langel has had a good five year run - not just two. He brought the program back to respectability in 2014-15 - when they were 12-6 in league and finished an outright 2nd. Then had a couple seasons of .500, followed by the two most recent teams that were very good. As you say, it is a very tough place to recruit - poor facilities, no fan support, and a very small town in the middle of nowhere. |
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Post by CHC8485 on Aug 26, 2019 20:35:51 GMT -5
Actually, an interesting discussion topic.
Just to call out a few names in the discussion that you have not yet mentioned ...
Nathan Davis, Dave Paulsen and Charlie Woollum at Bucknell.
Don Devoe did very well at Navy until his final 2-3 years.
And there was a guy named Blaney for 4 years at the beginning of the PL.
In the end I guess it depends on how you define one of the best the league has ever seen.
In a league with less than 30 years of history and I'd guess somewhere around 35 - 40 head coaches in that time, I suppose if you consider number 8 or 9 overall one of the best, sure he's one of the best. I'd say top 3 maybe top 5 makes him one of the best and he's not there yet. He needs to sustain it a bit.
I didn't say Langel sucked. Just said pump the breaks on one of the best.
In 5 years at Lehigh, Billy Taylor won 2 coach of the year awards, a PL regular season and tournament championship with a 43 - 27 record in the PL and 81 - 69 overall. Is he one of the best?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Aug 26, 2019 20:46:13 GMT -5
8485, I think I’m factoring in the inherent challenges Langel faces at Colgate more than Nathan Davis or Dave Paulsen face at Bucknell.
Langel’s record at HC, for instance, would make him an average PL coach, in my mind.
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Post by bison137 on Aug 26, 2019 21:35:44 GMT -5
Actually, an interesting discussion topic. Just to call out a few names in the discussion that you have not yet mentioned ... Nathan Davis, Dave Paulsen and Charlie Woollum at Bucknell. Don Devoe did very well at Navy until his final 2-3 years. And there was a guy named Blaney for 4 years at the beginning of the PL. In the end I guess it depends on how you define one of the best the league has ever seen. In a league with less than 30 years of history and I'd guess somewhere around 35 - 40 head coaches in that time, I suppose if you consider number 8 or 9 overall one of the best, sure he's one of the best. I'd say top 3 maybe top 5 makes him one of the best and he's not there yet. He needs to sustain it a bit. I didn't say Langel sucked. Just said pump the breaks on one of the best. In 5 years at Lehigh, Billy Taylor won 2 coach of the year awards, a PL regular season and tournament championship with a 43 - 27 record in the PL and 81 - 69 overall. Is he one of the best? Taylor did a good job at Lehigh - but for a couple reasons I don't think it was as good a job as what Langel has done: 1. During nuch ofTaylor's era, Bucknell, Colgate, and Lafayette were not scholarship teams. And Army and Navy were beyond horrendous for his entire five years. Far worse than they have been in recent years. So he generally faced easier competition than Langel is facing now. 2. Lehigh, with a competent coach, is a far easier place to recruit to than Colgate. Fairly close to NYC, Philly, and North Jersey - plus lots of players in the Lehigh Valley. Also a big arena which, although not very nice, is far better than Cotterell. Also more institutional support from Lehigh traditionally than from Colgate. Btw, Taylor's official PL record is in the books at 37-33, thanks to Juco Joe Knight. One last thought is that Taylor owes part of his COY awards to Sal Mantesana, who was likely the worst coach ever in the PL. His 2001-02 team underachieved so badly - before he was fired - that it set up Taylor for COY the next year despite only having an 8-6 league record. Compared to Mantesana, it would have been an improvement had they been coached by a fan chosen at random. Mantesana in six seasons was about 86 games under .500. |
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Post by bison137 on Aug 26, 2019 21:43:10 GMT -5
Don Devoe did very well at Navy until his final 2-3 years. Yes, DeVoe did very well - or better - during most of his Navy tenure. His PL record was 77-23 during an 8-year period before his teams went in the tank the last three years. However I wouldn't rank him as highly as the record suggests since he was competing exclusively against non-scholarship teams during his glory days. One simplistic measurement of Navy's strength in that era is the one in Sports-Reference.com. According to that model, seven of his eight powerhouses at Navy were below average in the national pool. Sort of like ranking #200 in a Pomeroy ranking. |
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