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Post by purplehaze on Jan 24, 2020 15:45:41 GMT -5
ncaa maximum is 11.7 (which many power conference teams are lobbying to be increased because the game's popularity has grown so much) HC gives 'zero' baseball scholarships so each players obtain financial aid like any other student
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Post by bison137 on Jan 24, 2020 17:47:35 GMT -5
How many scholarships can they give out for baseball? Another dumb patriot league rule? The Patriot League has NO rules at all about scholarships in any sport except football. And even there it is minor - limiting the number to 60 instead of 63.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 24, 2020 17:57:48 GMT -5
During the time in which D was at HC, Bucknell won the PL three times, HC won it once. Baseball performed better than most sports at HC recently and I believe PP has listed figures showing HC spends less than other PL baseball programs. But Coach D did only win one championship in twelve years in a six team league. Lafayette and Lehigh both have some baseball scholarships. Bucknell and Holy Cross do not. Here is total spending by the four for the two most recent years where data is available: Bucknell: 2017-18: 487k, 2016-17: 426k Holy Cross: 2017-18: 458k, 2016-17: 427k Lafayette: 825k, 690k Lehigh: 752k, 478k * * The Lehigh number for 2016-17 looks funny because they spent a lot more than this in prior years.
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Post by gks on Jan 24, 2020 18:24:25 GMT -5
How many scholarships can they give out for baseball? Another dumb patriot league rule? The Patriot League has NO rules at all about scholarships in any sport except football. And even there it is minor - limiting the number to 60 instead of 63. Ask coaches...it is not MINOR.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 24, 2020 18:30:50 GMT -5
The Patriot League has NO rules at all about scholarships in any sport except football. And even there it is minor - limiting the number to 60 instead of 63. Ask coaches...it is not MINOR. To coaches, nothing is minor. But the difference between 60 and 63 certainly isn't major.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 24, 2020 18:33:16 GMT -5
Ask coaches...it is not MINOR. But the difference between 60 and 63 certainly isn't major. Strongly disagree. Depth is one of the biggest issues for PL teams when competing in the OOC, and not having additional scholarships definitely makes things more difficult when filling out a roster.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 24, 2020 20:09:10 GMT -5
Baseball performed better than most sports at HC recently and I believe PP has listed figures showing HC spends less than other PL baseball programs. But Coach D did only win one championship in twelve years in a six team league. Lafayette and Lehigh both have some baseball scholarships. Bucknell and Holy Cross do not. Here is total spending by the four for the two most recent years where data is available: Bucknell: 2017-18: 487k, 2016-17: 426k Holy Cross: 2017-18: 458k, 2016-17: 427k Lafayette: 825k, 690k Lehigh: 752k, 478k * * The Lehigh number for 2016-17 looks funny because they spent a lot more than this in prior years. HC: first in our hearts but last in the Patriot League in financial support of the baseball team. Yet Coach D had a winning record in the PL. Advantage D. Let's hope the new IHC is a similar Alchemist turning Kool aid into wine.
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Post by gks on Jan 24, 2020 20:15:51 GMT -5
Ask coaches...it is not MINOR. To coaches, nothing is minor. But the difference between 60 and 63 certainly isn't major. Those three equivalencies are not just three quality players. It can be three half scholarship or divided up more ways to get better players. Just more Patriot League mentality. Little things matter. And those that make dumb decisions like this have no clue they do.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 24, 2020 20:48:07 GMT -5
To coaches, nothing is minor. But the difference between 60 and 63 certainly isn't major. Those three equivalencies are not just three quality players. It can be three half scholarship or divided up more ways to get better players. Just more Patriot League mentality. Little things matter. And those that make dumb decisions like this have no clue they do. PL: Proud to be FCS-Lite. As I recall the decision was part of a grand compromise between league schools with different philosophies about athletic scholarships. I don't think they placed enough value on the dulling effect of league schools having consistent overall (conference and ooc combined) losing records in football. The cost of the three forsaken scholarships is only the difference between a full ride and what the college provides in need based aid. Wouldn't an extra 1-2,000 fans at five or six home games generate similar revenue to the net cost of the three scholarships? And don't winning teams generate higher attendance?
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Post by hcpride on Jan 25, 2020 7:18:29 GMT -5
Coach DiCenzo seemed to have figured out how to recruit kids to build teams that could compete and win in the Patriot League. In the context of doing so at a school without baseball scholarships, not known for particularly generous financial aid, and not known for general athletic success in the Patriot League this century, this is very impressive.
(Obviously there are players, parents, and fans who didn't love everything that he did but taken in context his tenure was certainly a successful one and he undoubtedly improved the baseball program.)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 25, 2020 8:09:43 GMT -5
Georgetown football awards zero merit aid. Does anyone believe all 90 players on its roster are playing full freight?
I'm quite certain that there are players on HC's baseball roster who are receiving need-based aid. How many, and the total amount of their need-based aid, I know not, because it is not tabulated in any 'public' record, i.e., a Title IX or NCAA financial report.
Clemson lists 119 players on its football roster. Only 85 of those players, the counters, can receive any form of financial aid (an exception would be true walk-ons). If Clemson chose the route of no merit aid, like HYP or Georgetown, theoretically all 119 could be receiving need-based aid.
Football schools tend to skimp on merit aid for male athletes in other sports, because of Title IX offset issues, and the M/F ratios on undergraduate enrollment generally show more females enrolled than males. The M/F enrollment ratios at BostonU and at Georgetown become a factor when doling out merit scollie money. The ratios are more favorable toward the men in schools with significant engineering programs, e.g., Lafayette and Bucknell.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 25, 2020 8:53:08 GMT -5
This is a BASEBALL thread about coach leaving. Keep the enrollment and Title IX talk for elsewhere.
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Post by joutsHC77 on Jan 25, 2020 11:52:05 GMT -5
To coaches, nothing is minor. But the difference between 60 and 63 certainly isn't major. Those three equivalencies are not just three quality players. It can be three half scholarship or divided up more ways to get better players. Just more Patriot League mentality. Little things matter. And those that make dumb decisions like this have no clue they do. They’re snowflakes.
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Post by snapper on Jan 25, 2020 12:10:49 GMT -5
Coach DiCenzo seemed to have figured out how to recruit kids to build teams that could compete and win in the Patriot League. In the context of doing so at a school without baseball scholarships, not known for particularly generous financial aid, and not known for general athletic success in the Patriot League this century, this is very impressive. (Obviously there are players, parents, and fans who didn't love everything that he did but taken in context his tenure was certainly a successful one and he undoubtedly improved the baseball program.) I couldn't agree more with this. From 1995-2007, HC posted two seasons with a winning % over .400 (neither of which were over .500). In Coach D's 12 years, he had only one year where the winning % was below .400 and 5 seasons at .500 or better. In addition, the team went from playing 30-40 games a year to 50 plus with big time opponents. For example, in 2005 and 2006, the OOC schedule to start the year included Villanova, Duquesne, IPFW, Bowling Green, Georgetown, Central Michigan. In Coach D's tenure, the program has played (and competed with) numerous national powers including Texas A & M, LSU, Arizona, Arizona St., Clemson, Mississippit St., Long Beach St., Auburn, Oklahoma in addition to many other programs like Michigan, Houston, Nevada, Cal Poly, Winthrop, Georgia Southern, College of Charleston, Richmond. Maybe he didn't get the results in the PL that some have hoped for, but Coach D has certainly raised the profile and quality of the program immensely. IMO, he will be greatly missed, but has set the program up for future success if the AD can get the right coach.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 25, 2020 15:43:31 GMT -5
Again, I like the flexibility the AD has provided for himself by promoting an Asst. to Interim Head Coach for a full season or more trial period.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 25, 2020 15:51:37 GMT -5
I hope he shows enough to keep HC baseball relevant.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 26, 2020 19:27:15 GMT -5
Again, I like the flexibility the AD has provided for himself by promoting an Asst. to Interim Head Coach for a full season or more trial period. Probably the best option given the timing. I do worry about losing a recruiting class but it is what it is.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 26, 2020 20:18:08 GMT -5
Again, I like the flexibility the AD has provided for himself by promoting an Asst. to Interim Head Coach for a full season or more trial period. Probably the best option given the timing. I do worry about losing a recruiting class but it is what it is. Don't compare a baseball recruiting class to say basketball, as b aseball isn't remotely close to hoop as to players fitting a system.
Baseball is throw the ball, hit the ball, catch the ball regardless of who the manager is, and baseball players are not as apt to tag out due to a coaching change as hoop players are; and I'm sure all the incoming players are very familiar with Kahovec and the rest of the staff.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 27, 2020 1:42:00 GMT -5
Probably the best option given the timing. I do worry about losing a recruiting class but it is what it is. Don't compare a baseball recruiting class to say basketball, as b aseball isn't remotely close to hoop as to players fitting a system.
Baseball is throw the ball, hit the ball, catch the ball regardless of who the manager is, and baseball players are not as apt to tag out due to a coaching change as hoop players are; and I'm sure all the incoming players are very familiar with Kahovec and the rest of the staff.
m Not exactly...the players are paying their way to go to school (Especially the non service academies) so they tend to select the school before the coach.
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Post by rf1 on Jan 27, 2020 7:49:08 GMT -5
There certainly has been a lot of head coach turnover at Holy Cross in the last 1.5 seasons.
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Post by hcbball on Jan 27, 2020 7:51:11 GMT -5
Given the timing, I don't think this would impact the 2020 class, as it's too late for them to find another opportunity. Some 2021 may now cross HC off their lists, but HC doesn't do early commitments, so that will be hard to quanitify. However, we did lose our 2 top freshman last year to transfer, so that's more of a possibility going forward.
Baseball coaches have value beyond the spring season. Summer baseball placement is an important factor, as is professional (non-baseball) placement/referrals, OOC scheduling, MLB scout contacts, etc. Coach D had a great reputation in the NE, so that will be difficult to replace.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 27, 2020 8:25:15 GMT -5
Don't compare a baseball recruiting class to say basketball, as b aseball isn't remotely close to hoop as to players fitting a system.
Baseball is throw the ball, hit the ball, catch the ball regardless of who the manager is, and baseball players are not as apt to tag out due to a coaching change as hoop players are; and I'm sure all the incoming players are very familiar with Kahovec and the rest of the staff.
m ALSO..the players are paying their way to go to school (Especially the non service academies) so they tend to select the school before the coach. Fixed it for you.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jan 27, 2020 8:29:50 GMT -5
Probably the best option given the timing. I do worry about losing a recruiting class but it is what it is. Don't compare a baseball recruiting class to say basketball, as b aseball isn't remotely close to hoop as to players fitting a system. Baseball is throw the ball, hit the ball, catch the ball regardless of who the manager is, and baseball players are not as apt to tag out due to a coaching change as hoop players are; and I'm sure all the incoming players are very familiar with Kahovec and the rest of the staff.
I knew I heard that some place before!
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 27, 2020 8:36:41 GMT -5
Given the timing, I don't think this would impact the 2020 class, as it's too late for them to find another opportunity. Some 2021 may now cross HC off their lists, but HC doesn't do early commitments, so that will be hard to quanitify. However, we did lose our 2 top freshman last year to transfer, so that's more of a possibility going forward. Baseball coaches have value beyond the spring season. Summer baseball placement is an important factor, as is professional (non-baseball) placement/referrals, OOC scheduling, MLB scout contacts, etc. Coach D had a great reputation in the NE, so that will be difficult to replace. If ADMB can find a near equivalent of Coach D, there is no reason that Interim Head Coach Kahovic can't stay as an assistant and continue to grow his career. Any tenure as interim Head Coach would be a plus over not having that experience. You see that in business. Two applicants are roughly equal but one has experience as an acting or interim department head for a period of time. That one is in a better position for any future openings. In WBB however I get the sense Coach Mac will be either up (to permanent head coach status) or out after this season because basketball programs have become mini fiefdoms of the Head Coach. I also have the sense the interim baseball head coach will get a full season to hopefully do a good job and stay. The same close attention to overseeing all coaches should be the standard across the board because HC needs strong effective coaching in all sports to succeed as a small college in D-1.
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Post by hcbball on Jan 27, 2020 9:04:39 GMT -5
Not passing judgement on who's better, but Coach K and D are near polar opposites, from a personality perspective. I do not think this will be a coveted job by an external candidate, due to HC lack of scholarships and new transfer rules, which are setup only to negatively impact mid-D1 programs. It would have to be someone looking for either their first managerial opportunity or someone looking to ride off in the sunset for one last opportunity. Given that, it's probably K's job to lose.
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