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Post by rgs318 on Feb 16, 2020 11:08:48 GMT -5
There was a feature today in the Record about a high school shot clock. They said only 9 states still have them right now. The coaches in tervewed were generally indifferent because they felt it does not. slow down the game. The biggest factor for opponents is the cost. They aid another official would be needed and they estimated that $50/game might be a high enough cost to kill the idea.
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 16, 2020 11:33:19 GMT -5
Private hs prep schools here in Ct (Fairfield County anyway) use a 30 sec shot click and two officials - you just need an extra person at the table to handle that clock
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 16, 2020 11:43:25 GMT -5
The 9 existing states with shot clocks (between 30 and 35 seconds) like it. I was honestly surprised to see opposition based on "cost." (About $750 per season for each school.) It was not felt that it caused the players who use a slight slower pace to speed cup in a sway that hurt their team style of play.
Some games between large and small schools were cited where a "small" school underdog had the ball with under 2 minutes left in the game and the score tied. In each case, the small school went for the shot without concerns for burning the time, rather than waiting for a last second win/lose shot to try for the upset.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 16, 2020 12:55:45 GMT -5
I watch a fair amount of high school hoops in CT. Would definitely be better with a shot clock.
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Post by hc87 on Feb 16, 2020 13:28:31 GMT -5
Always surprised when I see these discussions on so many states that don't have a shot-clock...Mass. has had one for at least 25 years or so...it's really not that big of a deal to implement $-wise or otherwise....i think many states just don't add one out of tradition, stubbornness etc....the sport is much bettah with one imo.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 16, 2020 13:34:55 GMT -5
With a shot clock the game is better for all esp players that go on to compete in college
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Post by timholycross on Feb 16, 2020 13:47:20 GMT -5
A school that pays a timer would pay the shot clock operator; that and the equipment would be the cost increases.
Anyone who's done both jobs I think will agree with me that the shot clock is tougher to do; especially in a lower skill level game filled with turnovers and wild shots.
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Post by JRGNYR on Feb 18, 2020 8:18:24 GMT -5
The 9 existing states with shot clocks (between 30 and 35 seconds) like it. I was honestly surprised to see opposition based on "cost." (About $750 per season for each school.) It was not felt that it caused the players who use a slight slower pace to speed cup in a sway that hurt their team style of play. Some games between large and small schools were cited where a "small" school underdog had the ball with under 2 minutes left in the game and the score tied. In each case, the small school went for the shot without concerns for burning the time, rather than waiting for a last second win/lose shot to try for the upset. Is the $750 just the per-game cost of a shot clock official over the course of the season? What's the estimate for the cost to install two clocks in a gym? I honestly don't know. And does the $750 include both boys and girls games? |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 8:28:58 GMT -5
Good points. That was just for one team (boys) and would be double that or about $1500 a season.
The clock costs are a one time cost and run about $400 for 2 separate wall shot clocks (plus installation). For a model that combines shot clock with game time, the cost is about double (plus installation). These are low end estimates.
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Post by JRGNYR on Feb 18, 2020 9:57:32 GMT -5
Obviously the installation is an easier cost to handle because it's a one-time thing vs. the $1,500-$2,000 increase to pay someone to operate it. But with proper budgeting, schools should be able to handle this. If the NJSIAA was smart and wanted to push this through, they could do it with 2-3 year lead time to give schools the chance to plan for it.
In the long run it would make a lot of sense.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 18, 2020 10:32:59 GMT -5
I watch a fair amount of high school hoops in CT. Would definitely be better with a shot clock. I guess it depends on the teams involved. I've seen seven CT HS games this year and I doubt there was more than once a game where the shot clock would have come into play. |
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Post by hchoops on Feb 18, 2020 10:37:01 GMT -5
I watch a fair amount of high school hoops in CT. Would definitely be better with a shot clock. I guess it depends on the teams involved. I've seen seven CT HS games this year and I doubt there was more than once a game where the shot clock would have come into play. Were any of the seven games close at the end ? if so, did the team with the lead hold the ball at the end for more than 30 seconds in one possession ? |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 18, 2020 10:39:27 GMT -5
That point was raised in NJ. Typically, even in close games, teams here do not do that (according to the coaches and sports reporters). Their reason jawas that the players simply do not want to play in that sort of game.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 19, 2020 1:47:25 GMT -5
The HS shot clock issue is of particular interest to me because it came into play during my HS career in New York.
There was actually a time where New York STATE had the shot clock with the exception of New York CITY. My junior year of high school (04-05), I had the fortune of being a part of a state championship team. During our regular season and city championship run, the shot clock was never in play.
New York State has a weird tournament structure where the state final four for the top 3 enrollment classes consists of 1 representative each from the CHSAA (Catholic schools in NYC, LI and Buffalo), PSAL (NYC Public School Champion), NYSAIS (private schools in NYC & LI) and NYSPHSAA (everyone else who doesn't fall into the other three categories). Even within the CHSAA, the Long Island and Buffalo divisions used a shot clock but the city didn't. So we first utilized the shot clock in the CHSAA State Championship against the Buffalo-area team and then utilized it again in our two games in Glens Falls for the overall title. Even though we ran a basic motion offense that rarely resulted in quick possessions, and were inexperienced with the shot clock during the season, I think we had one violation during the entire state tournament run.
I will say this -- in CITY postseason games, the lack of a shot clock definitely came into play. My sophomore year when I was with the JV, our varsity team was playing for and won it's first city title in 11 years. With the game tied and two full minutes remaining, we ran a four-corners style offense and tried to hold for one shot (I still remember the name of that play). With 8 SECONDS to go in the game, our point guard threw the ball out of bounds after getting doubled on the wing. Luckily, our opponent missed a runner at the buzzer to send it to OT. In OT, we scored on our first possession on a deep three pointer and got a quick stop. And with 2 full minutes to go in OT, our opponent was already forced to foul, effectively shortening the game. The shot clock would have definitely made for a better pure basketball game in this particular instance. That being said, if you looked up random NYC Public school box scores from that time, you would still have found many of 130-90 type of scores.
My senior year of high school the shot clock was added in NYC, but only in the Catholic League in Class AA, which is the top division (my school was Class B, the third highest level). A year or two after that, all of New York City (Catholic/private/public) joined the rest of the state and added the shot clock across the board.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 19, 2020 6:42:14 GMT -5
Thanks for that insight. That game you describe is exactly what backers of a shot clock are trying to avoid, but you also mention it came up infrequently. Was it often enough to justify the expense of the clock and operator, do you think?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 19, 2020 9:31:38 GMT -5
Thanks for that insight. That game you describe is exactly what backers of a shot clock are trying to avoid, but you also mention it came up infrequently. Was it often enough to justify the expense of the clock and operator, do you think? Yes. The shot clock makes for a better game, period. |
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Post by timholycross on Feb 19, 2020 18:12:59 GMT -5
The 9 existing states with shot clocks (between 30 and 35 seconds) like it. I was honestly surprised to see opposition based on "cost." (About $750 per season for each school.) It was not felt that it caused the players who use a slight slower pace to speed cup in a sway that hurt their team style of play. Some games between large and small schools were cited where a "small" school underdog had the ball with under 2 minutes left in the game and the score tied. In each case, the small school went for the shot without concerns for burning the time, rather than waiting for a last second win/lose shot to try for the upset. Is the $750 just the per-game cost of a shot clock official over the course of the season? What's the estimate for the cost to install two clocks in a gym? I honestly don't know. And does the $750 include both boys and girls games? I fill in for my local high school. They pay for both games, JV and Varsity, $30 each. So, $120 per ballgame. Same situation w/o a shot clock would be $60....Each team, boys and girls, has 10 home games, so 20 X 60 or $1200. But I bet a lot of places they have kids running the scoreboard for the JV game. |
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Post by JRGNYR on Feb 20, 2020 10:52:32 GMT -5
Is the $750 just the per-game cost of a shot clock official over the course of the season? What's the estimate for the cost to install two clocks in a gym? I honestly don't know. And does the $750 include both boys and girls games? I fill in for my local high school. They pay for both games, JV and Varsity, $30 each. So, $120 per ballgame. Same situation w/o a shot clock would be $60....Each team, boys and girls, has 10 home games, so 20 X 60 or $1200. But I bet a lot of places they have kids running the scoreboard for the JV game. Not a bad gig if you can get it. |
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Post by hcpride on Feb 20, 2020 11:02:27 GMT -5
Is the $750 just the per-game cost of a shot clock official over the course of the season? What's the estimate for the cost to install two clocks in a gym? I honestly don't know. And does the $750 include both boys and girls games? I fill in for my local high school. They pay for both games, JV and Varsity, $30 each. So, $120 per ballgame. Same situation w/o a shot clock would be $60....Each team, boys and girls, has 10 home games, so 20 X 60 or $1200. But I bet a lot of places they have kids running the scoreboard for the JV game. I did the same at my high school for about 10 years. At first the school tried to use the main scoreboard operator as the shot clock operator and of course that did not work out. At all. So I doubled as the announcer (just pregame lineups and some other intro stuff and half time stats and end-of-game announcements) and shot clock operator. After taxes, the pay wasn't great but I enjoyed the games. Boys and Girls, Varsity and JV. As I recall the boys and girls had different shot clock times. |
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