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Post by hcbball on Aug 11, 2020 18:47:07 GMT -5
Just hung up from the webinar, completely unimpressed and wondering how are these people employed and have the authority to make decisions impacting the future of their students. It’s clear HC is hanging on their reputation, but I suspect that won’t last much longer.
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Post by lou on Aug 11, 2020 18:52:50 GMT -5
Just hung up from the webinar, completely unimpressed and wondering how are these people employed and have the authority to make decisions impacting the future of their students. It’s clear HC is hanging on their reputation, but I suspect that won’t last much longer. What webinar?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 11, 2020 19:04:54 GMT -5
Burroughs administration is emerging from this decision with a lot of egg on their face.
What a coincidence that tuition payments cleared the bank right before the call was made.
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Post by hcbball on Aug 11, 2020 19:08:22 GMT -5
Just hung up from the webinar, completely unimpressed and wondering how are these people employed and have the authority to make decisions impacting the future of their students. It’s clear HC is hanging on their reputation, but I suspect that won’t last much longer. What webinar? They had the first of 3 to discuss their decision. Answered “pre-submitted” softball questions, did not address the difficult ones and ended the call less than an hour from when it started. They just wanted to be able to say they addressed impacted families
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Post by hcbball on Aug 11, 2020 19:15:28 GMT -5
Burroughs administration is emerging from this decision with a lot of egg on their face. What a coincidence that tuition payments cleared the bank right before the call was made. I will admit, I thought they were fair with the financial decisions they made a few weeks ago. They eliminated the obscene 3.25% tuition increase and a $2,400 student summer employment (didn’t know this existed) deduction from financial aid calculation. I thought the above was fair and was happy to send my son on campus. Then the whole game changed. I know I’ve been vocal...just want to provide a parent/current student perspective
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 11, 2020 19:59:03 GMT -5
Holy Cross patting itself on the back for not raising tuition is like the Knicks bragging about how they have a policy of not raising season ticket prices when the team doesn't make the playoffs. Of course this policy has a caveat: if it's a big year for the pending free agent market, they force renewals to hand in their money four months early with the implicit threat that they must do so to be "locked in" at prior year's price.
What Holy Cross did to its students and parents is highway robbery.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 11, 2020 20:54:11 GMT -5
I do not logical understand the vitriol directed unilaterally at the Holy Cross administration from this thread. UPenn, Brown, UCONN made the same decision public this week. Princeton and Georgetown recently made the same decision.
From reading reports from around the US, a number of colleges have made the same decision in the last couple of days based on the logistics of campus congregate living. I agree with the decision for remote learning. If I had a child currently in college, I would want them home, under the current circumstances, where the food is good and nutritious, the laundry is free and convenient, and they can have a private room. For one, I really did not like sharing a room when in school. It was only out of necessity.
This is a wake up call for college administrators, students and parents that learning modalities are changing out of necessity. Clinging to a anachronistic pedagogical model of instruction will lead to the demise of an institution unwilling to embrace the dynamics of an evolving society. To purposely misquote Gordon Gekko.....”Change is Good”.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 11, 2020 21:26:43 GMT -5
/\ If it is any consolation there has been plenty of online griping [some quite colorful and very pointed] regarding the recent and various announcements by the other schools you noted. Not necessarily here on the HC forum.
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Post by hcbball on Aug 11, 2020 21:26:48 GMT -5
I do not logical understand the vitriol directed unilaterally at the Holy Cross administration from this thread. UPenn, Brown, UCONN made the same decision public this week. Princeton and Georgetown recently made the same decision. From reading reports from around the US, a number of colleges have made the same decision in the last couple of days based on the logistics of campus congregate living. I agree with the decision for remote learning. If I had a child currently in college, I would want them home, under the current circumstances, where the food is good and nutritious, the laundry is free and convenient, and they can have a private room. For one, I really did not like sharing a room when in school. It was only out of necessity. This is a wake up call for college administrators, students and parents that learning modalities are changing out of necessity. Clinging to a anachronistic pedagogical model of instruction will lead to the demise of an institution unwilling to embrace the dynamics of an evolving society. To purposely misquote Gordon Gekko.....”Change is Good”. Brown and UConn absolutely did not make the same decision as Holy Cross, not sure why you would make such an erroneous and ignorant statement. You would rather your children living at home with mom and dad with laundry folded than living on their own, starting their life as independent adults. Think the wake up call needs to be redirected.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 12, 2020 0:44:44 GMT -5
“What”s your deal?” Refrain from ad hominem attacks! I did not launch a personal attack against you, nor will I as it violates our ethics and rules.
Since I am “ignorant”, please educate me how Brown and UConn are different than HC. I try to keep an open mind to learn. I am fully aware of the nuance in how those institutions are handling their campus residency requirements for this fall.
Both announced this week that that on campus residency would not occur. Brown couched it by stating at least until October 5, 2020 and UConn is not allowing out of state students to reside on campus.
FYI, my daughter attended college and law school 3,000 miles from home. She is now a very successful lawyer and a trained design engineer who was taught and was mentored by the current Chairman of Alphabet, and by a former US Secretary of Defense while he was in residence at the Hoover Institution, a leading international policy think tank. But that was 20 years ago, when she launched her academic career, and not in the maelstrom of a global pandemic.
If you have such a grievance against the HC administration and some of us on this board, maybe you should talk to your family and have your child enrolled in an institution that would allow them to live in a Petri dish and possibly catch a life altering disease. Several new categories have been created for the Darwin Awards for 2020, candidates are being nominated every day.
I suggest you get some professional advice regarding your perceived grievance with HC. I do not have a sympathetic ear. Please take it some where other than Crossports.
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 12, 2020 1:00:03 GMT -5
I do not logical understand the vitriol directed unilaterally at the Holy Cross administration from this thread. UPenn, Brown, UCONN made the same decision public this week. Princeton and Georgetown recently made the same decision. From reading reports from around the US, a number of colleges have made the same decision in the last couple of days based on the logistics of campus congregate living. I agree with the decision for remote learning. If I had a child currently in college, I would want them home, under the current circumstances, where the food is good and nutritious, the laundry is free and convenient, and they can have a private room. For one, I really did not like sharing a room when in school. It was only out of necessity. This is a wake up call for college administrators, students and parents that learning modalities are changing out of necessity. Clinging to a anachronistic pedagogical model of instruction will lead to the demise of an institution unwilling to embrace the dynamics of an evolving society. To purposely misquote Gordon Gekko.....”Change is Good”. Brown and UConn absolutely did not make the same decision as Holy Cross, not sure why you would make such an erroneous and ignorant statement. You would rather your children living at home with mom and dad with laundry folded than living on their own, starting their life as independent adults. Think the wake up call needs to be redirected. UMass made the same decision late last week with MANY more students. Is that better for you? It is literally the same thing I don’t understand the hate towards the admin over this either. BTW, your son or daughter doesn’t have to live at home, they could rent an apartment anywhere in the USA and take their classes this fall at Holy Cross.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 12, 2020 4:45:19 GMT -5
Did Brown and UConn make their decision immediately after cashing everyone's check? Probably. I wouldn't expect the mindset of college administrators to be much different across the board. But that doesn't make it right. I'm sorry, the monetary value of a ZOOM education from home is not the same as the value of an in-person liberal arts education. As much as I bleed Holy Cross, I'm questioning whether I would consider sending my daughter to any private college or university in 17 years.
If Holy Cross or any other school wanted to do the right thing, they would've made the decision before taking everyone's money, which would have allowed students to take transferable credits at a less expensive school closer to home if they so chose. OR some kind of tuition discount should've been announced. By charging full tuition for online instruction, your basically de-valuing the aspects of Holy Cross that supposedly make it worth all that money: 1) Liberal arts classroom 2) Close-knit relationships developed at a small school of high achievers 3) Campus involvement. We are not a diploma mill.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 12, 2020 5:37:03 GMT -5
Did Brown and UConn make their decision immediately after cashing everyone's check? Probably. I wouldn't expect the mindset of college administrators to be much different across the board. But that doesn't make it right. I'm sorry, the monetary value of a ZOOM education from home is not the same as the value of an in-person liberal arts education. As much as I bleed Holy Cross, I'm questioning whether I would consider sending my daughter to any private college or university in 17 years. If Holy Cross or any other school wanted to do the right thing, they would've made the decision before taking everyone's money, which would have allowed students to take transferable credits at a less expensive school closer to home if they so chose. OR some kind of tuition discount should've been announced. By charging full tuition for online instruction, your basically de-valuing the aspects of Holy Cross that supposedly make it worth all that money: 1) Liberal arts classroom 2) Close-knit relationships developed at a small school of high achievers 3) Campus involvement. We are not a diploma mill. From reading the FAQs on the HC website, the recalculated bills for the semester are being sent out shortly. Withdrawing The students (and parents) who may get the short end of the stick. (Putting tuition costs aside.) ^^^ By my reading, this would not apply to any students who would have been living off-campus where HC is the landlord, i.e., students who would be living in housing leased by HC. (I do not know whether HC was housing students in houses near the campus owned by HC.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With respect to COVID in Worcester city. Yesterday, the state designated four cities, all to the immediate north of Boston, as "high risk" because of the rate of new COVID infections. Based on a quick glance at the announcement, special attention will be paid to these four communities, and if the rate does not soon improve, there will be interventional steps taken by the state. I assume this could entail a rollback of the phased re-openings. There are no colleges/universities in these four cities. An additional 29 cities and towns were designated as "moderate risk". Worcester and Auburn (surprisingly for Auburn) were included in the moderate risk designation. The remaining 320 or so cities and towns are low or no risk. The inference I drew is that these 29 had best take steps to avoid falling into the 'high risk' category, and the ensuing state intervention. This may explain the college's statement that Worcester city was imposing new restrictions (not further described) on on-campus dining.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 12, 2020 5:44:56 GMT -5
It is perfectly OK to criticize HC’s reopening plan, execution of that plan, timing of the most recent decision, and those responsible at the school. That is not hate and that does not imply all colleges have done better. It would be nice, although thoroughly impractical, if HC could really slash tuition given the sterile and fairly dismal online learning kids will be enduring. (I’d like to see other high cost colleges do that too if they close campuses and go online...especially if this was done at a late date.) One assumes HC has made the calculation the kids are better off NOT on campus than on campus (I would not characterize that as ‘rolling the dice’ although it may not be true of all HC students with all sorts of social lives and from all locales.) PP-good info on MA Covid infection risks (deaths continue trending downward): “Baker has attributed many of the new COVID-19 cases to parties where coronavirus precautions like mask-wearing and social distancing were being ignored. The new rules are, in part, an effort to combat the spread of coronavirus in those social settings, he said.” www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/08/11/high-risk-communities-mass-coronavirus
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Post by hcbball on Aug 12, 2020 6:30:55 GMT -5
“What”s your deal?” Refrain from ad hominem attacks! I did not launch a personal attack against you, nor will I as it violates our ethics and rules. Since I am “ignorant”, please educate me how Brown and UConn are different than HC. I try to keep an open mind to learn. I am fully aware of the nuance in how those institutions are handling their campus residency requirements for this fall. Both announced this week that that on campus residency would not occur. Brown couched it by stating at least until October 5, 2020 and UConn is not allowing out of state students to reside on campus. HC is not allowing students on campus, UCONN the same only for out of state students only. Spring sports teams are allowed to practice at UCONN, that is not the case at HC. These two are not similar. You've already pointed out the difference for Brown. This is why I took exception to your statement, which it now seems you knowingly knew there were "Nuances", in your words. Some would like to call that Fake News on your behalf and I'm glad you are now admitting there is a difference between these schools
I will never agree that saying someone made an ignorant statement is a personal attack, but if you would like to report me for an ethics violation, I won't try to stop you.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 12, 2020 9:18:22 GMT -5
Meandered back and see not much has changed on Crossports other than the "discussions" seem to be even more polarized and heated.
Observations as I have no expertise in these matters.
1. As I have been sharing with many of my 1970 Classmates: I am extremely glad that I am not in a position of having to make pandemic decisions for any organization, including and especially Holy Cross, because there is no right decision only bad choices, worse choices and worst choices. "Horns of a dilemma"? You'll find a picture of this pandemic under that definition.
2. As many posters here know, I have had many and varied gripes about the current Holy Cross administration, specifically Fr. Boroughs. However, as Teddy Roosevelt famously said, he is "the man in the arena." Easy to take pot-shots at him. No shots at him from me. Not this time.
3. As much as I sympathize with the current students and their parents, COVID is a fluid pandemic with changes happening daily and locally. That was communicated early on by Fr. B and TPTB atop Mt. St. James. IMHO believing that Holy Cross waited to get tuition checks in hand before making this change is cynical. Believing all actions taken by Holy Cross has nothing to do with the College's finances is idealistic. How about some balanced thinking?
4. Believing and stating that the faculty just doesn't want to teach is absurd. They are still going to teach, only remotely. None of them are getting out of anything. Having a college professor son (not at Holy Cross), I know that while professors would rather teach in-person, health and safety must take precedence. Not just for the professors and their families, the students too. While 18-22 year olds may generally have greater resistance to this disease, they are not immune. Maybe they don't die with the frequency of some older folks but some do and would you want your son or daughter to "just" get seriously ill for weeks at a time? Not me.
But, hey, the PPAC is really starting to look like a building and finishing touches on The Jo. Really fascinating to watch the construction.
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Post by CHC8485 on Aug 12, 2020 9:37:31 GMT -5
Well said 1970.
And if I may add to #4 - I have a couple of teachers in the family, one a tenured full professor at a college in Boston, the other a high school teacher. They HATE teaching online and would LOVE be teaching in person. Anecdotal evidence at best, but I suspect at most smaller schools like HC, the faculty feel the same way. If online teaching is not the same experience for students, likewise it is not the same for faculty who by and large enjoy teaching and knowing their students. Yet we know there was likely a group of faculty advocating for remote only learning. Not sure that corresponds to faculty who don't want to teach - at least at HC.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Aug 12, 2020 10:09:33 GMT -5
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Post by crossbball13 on Aug 12, 2020 10:40:10 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Aug 12, 2020 10:51:31 GMT -5
It is interesting that, thus far, BC, Notre Dame, PC, Fordham, and Villanova look to have occupied campuses. I went on WPI's website and Clark's website and they seem to be opening as well. The schools don't seem to have the same plan but they all seem to be able to execute their own plan.
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 12, 2020 11:10:19 GMT -5
It is interesting that, thus far, BC, Notre Dame, PC, Fordham, and Villanova look to have occupied campuses. I went on WPI's website and they seem to be opening as well. The schools don't seem to have the same plan but they all seem to be able to execute their own plan. I wish those campuses the best. Overall I say safety first but if these five Catholic Colleges succeed there is nothing stopping HC from building on it's on campus limits as the semester proceeds.
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Post by Tom on Aug 12, 2020 11:24:07 GMT -5
It is interesting that, thus far, BC, Notre Dame, PC, Fordham, and Villanova look to have occupied campuses. I went on WPI's website and Clark's website and they seem to be opening as well. The schools don't seem to have the same plan but they all seem to be able to execute their own plan. There are aspects of the WPI educational model that just wouldn't work remotely.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 12, 2020 15:10:29 GMT -5
My oh my!
I hope some find peace in their lives during this maelstrom. It seems as so many have gotten their onions in a bunch. Relax, reflect, thank the creator for your current blessings and that your family and loved ones stay safe during this time of turmoil. If you have lost someone close to you recently, you have my condolences. If you have lost financially, as many have, pray and plan for resilience.
Schools that recently changed their residency for the the fall semester are doing so out of an abundance of caution due to the high uncertainty of viral transmission in a congregate setting. Having spent over 4 decades in the insurance industry, in roles including health care, actuarial and IT data analysis management, I strongly believe rolling the dice regarding medical decisions is a fools errand. Under these ever changing circumstances, it is prudent for the institutions to be risk adverse regarding their fiduciary and moral responsibility to their stakeholders. The decisions announced this week by several institutions were not made to film flam or bam boozle students and parents. The FAQ’s noted by PP state that payment is due on August 28th. That is two weeks from now. If as a parent you have not paid, and do not like the decision by HC, UPenn, UMass, Princeton, Harvard, etc. or other schools that your child may be enrolled, do some soul searching regarding your options.The options and the decision is for you. I do not have a dog in this hunt. Just don’t gaslight us or impugn the current HC administration due to a decision that was forecast by many informed people based on analytical models as highly probable for more than the past six weeks.
Enjoy your day. Tomorrow is uncertain. Plan your risk, mitigations and contingencies for living.
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Post by gks on Aug 12, 2020 15:26:35 GMT -5
“What”s your deal?” Refrain from ad hominem attacks! I did not launch a personal attack against you, nor will I as it violates our ethics and rules. Since I am “ignorant”, please educate me how Brown and UConn are different than HC. I try to keep an open mind to learn. I am fully aware of the nuance in how those institutions are handling their campus residency requirements for this fall. Both announced this week that that on campus residency would not occur. Brown couched it by stating at least until October 5, 2020 and UConn is not allowing out of state students to reside on campus. FYI, my daughter attended college and law school 3,000 miles from home. She is now a very successful lawyer and a trained design engineer who was taught and was mentored by the current Chairman of Alphabet, and by a former US Secretary of Defense while he was in residence at the Hoover Institution, a leading international policy think tank. But that was 20 years ago, when she launched her academic career, and not in the maelstrom of a global pandemic. If you have such a grievance against the HC administration and some of us on this board, maybe you should talk to your family and have your child enrolled in an institution that would allow them to live in a Petri dish and possibly catch a life altering disease. Several new categories have been created for the Darwin Awards for 2020, candidates are being nominated every day. I suggest you get some professional advice regarding your perceived grievance with HC. I do not have a sympathetic ear. Please take it some where other than Crossports. Ignorance. Plenty of colleges have set into motion thorough plans to mitigate and control this the best they can. Holy Cross did not. They didn't want to go the extra steps to get kids back on campus. BTW, everywhere you go is a "petry dish". Unless you've stayed home since March you've been in plenty.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Aug 12, 2020 15:40:46 GMT -5
Well said 1970. And if I may add to #4 - I have a couple of teachers in the family, one a tenured full professor at a college in Boston, the other a high school teacher. They HATE teaching online and would LOVE be teaching in person. Anecdotal evidence at best, but I suspect at most smaller schools like HC, the faculty feel the same way. If online teaching is not the same experience for students, likewise it is not the same for faculty who by and large enjoy teaching and knowing their students. Yet we know there was likely a group of faculty advocating for remote only learning. Not sure that corresponds to faculty who don't want to teach - at least at HC. A close friend teaches at Wellesley College. Only about 30% of the faculty are willing to teach in person, not because they wouldn't like to but because of coronavirus fears. According to him, no one likes teaching on Zoom versus in person. In this situation everyone loses. And while I think there's a reasonable argument to be had about reducing tuition, I wonder how much less it costs to teach via Zoom than in person.
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