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Post by hcpride on Aug 11, 2020 8:15:25 GMT -5
I spent a few minutes on the ND site and could not find evidence that they are going to continue to test students randomly or on a schedule. Rather, it looks like they have free on campus testing by appointment for those with symptoms or those who have been exposed to someone who has tested positive. (I doubt that they would turn someone away who just wanted one for peace of mind, but who knows.) I give ND credit for trying to come up with a way to get kids on campus, but I would hope that, at a minimum, they would do surveillance testing to get ahead of an outbreak. At a minimum I am sure the ND administration is thanking G-d they did not try (and similarly fail) to execute the HC-designed testing plan. My niece goes there and I think you have captured the testing portion of their reopening plan as far as I know it. She took a test before heading there. Apparently 33 of the 12K kids that took the test were positive...and they are kept off campus until cleared. news.nd.edu/news/99-7-of-notre-dame-students-tested-covid-free-before-returning-to-campus/
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Post by gks on Aug 11, 2020 8:19:46 GMT -5
For those who think HC is a peer of Notre Dame, the latter conducted 12,000 tests of the students they in have on campus, with 99.7% of them testing negative. HC students, instead, will be at home. Failed leadership Many colleges have done this. Those with a plan.
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Post by gks on Aug 11, 2020 8:20:46 GMT -5
ND will be in a heap of trouble if the on-campus approach blows up and they have no remote learning infrastructure up and running. They should pray to Touchdown Jesus that everything works according to plan. I make the virus a ten point favorite. It's a long season, er semester. At least they and others are trying. Not folding up shop...after sending the tuition bill.
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Post by hcbball on Aug 11, 2020 8:24:25 GMT -5
Today's college students: The New Political Pawns
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Post by hcbball on Aug 11, 2020 8:34:41 GMT -5
ND will be in a heap of trouble if the on-campus approach blows up and they have no remote learning infrastructure up and running. They should pray to Touchdown Jesus that everything works according to plan. I make the virus a ten point favorite. It's a long season, er semester. At least they and others are trying. Not folding up shop...after sending the tuition bill. The rest are just sheep, with no courage to lead. Yes, I'm disgruntled. My son has lost 25% of his college experience and 25% of his collegiate athletic career/experience. This time is just a brief moment in one's life, and for so much of it to be taken away by a faculty that does not have the fortitude to create and stick to a plan, is disheartening. Instead, son will be living at home, by himself, while his friends are off at school. So much more concerned about his mental well being, but at least HC has rid themselves of any liability
I also feel for you HC Alumni that have to live with this stain and still try to prop up any pride you have left.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 11, 2020 9:02:22 GMT -5
With all due respect, this is a fairly insensitive comment that fails to take into account the health and safety of said faculty. It is very hard to socially distance in those classrooms, unless you reduce the class sizes even more while maintaining adequate course selection which HC does NOT have the faculty numbers to do. Moreover, you are trivializing the commitment of HC professors who make a lasting impact on their students. I became a parent for the first time very recently, and a handful of my former professors were some of the first non-family individuals that I notified. Many of these professors forgo either (1) more lucrative careers (e.g. teaching economics rather than working on Wall Street) and/or (2) other schools that would allow them to focus more time on more lucrative research opportunities rather than 1-1 teaching and mentoring. We still do not fully understand the long-term health effects from this virus, and there is no need to subject older teachers to this risk while this country has utterly failed to provide enough reliable testing. Why couldn’t professors, who do not feel comfortable teaching in person, instruct their classes remotely from their office and/or home? This has always made the most sense to me, rather than negatively impacting millions of college students lives. There is a modicum or truth to teamer’s post, IMO. HC specified that most courses would be offered on-line. This was done for those students who opted to enroll for the semester, but live at home. (HC was even requiring student government organizations with members living at home Zoom their meetings so absent students could participate.) There were some classes which could not be Zoomed and thus not available to students living at home. For courses in the performing arts, HC had secured plastic face shields to be worn by both instructor and students, as cloth masks are not suitable. I believe those classes are in-person only. Faculty members who felt that teaching on-campus in a classroom setting was unsafe for them, or their families, were allowed to teach the course remotely. HC may have specified that if the instructor did not have a high-speed internet connection, that the course was to be Zoomed from an on-campus location. (Not everyone lives in a location where high-speed broadband is consistently available, e.g., what happens if a HC student living at home has two siblings in high school who are simultaneously trying to Zoom their classes while the HC student is trying to Zoom his/her class? I have seen enough HC Zoomed webiners to note that students or members of TPTB participating from home often do not have the best signal; it is as if they are on a 3G network.)
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Post by hcpride on Aug 11, 2020 10:02:09 GMT -5
Certainly an HC face plant of epic proportions. Who the heck designs an unnecessarily complex testing plan and then publicly admits it cannot execute its very own self-designed plan and then has to tell the kids to stay home on August 10? Best case it reeks of incompetence and it really ticks off kids/parents. Not a good look.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 11, 2020 10:07:24 GMT -5
At least they and others are trying. Not folding up shop...after sending the tuition bill. The rest are just sheep, with no courage to lead. Yes, I'm disgruntled. My son has lost 25% of his college experience and 25% of his collegiate athletic career/experience. This time is just a brief moment in one's life, and for so much of it to be taken away by a faculty that does not have the fortitude to create and stick to a plan, is disheartening. Instead, son will be living at home, by himself, while his friends are off at school. So much more concerned about his mental well being, but at least HC has rid themselves of any liability
I also feel for you HC Alumni that have to live with this stain and still try to prop up any pride you have left.
Whoa.........
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Post by hceconhist on Aug 11, 2020 10:11:17 GMT -5
With all due respect, this is a fairly insensitive comment that fails to take into account the health and safety of said faculty. It is very hard to socially distance in those classrooms, unless you reduce the class sizes even more while maintaining adequate course selection which HC does NOT have the faculty numbers to do. Moreover, you are trivializing the commitment of HC professors who make a lasting impact on their students. I became a parent for the first time very recently, and a handful of my former professors were some of the first non-family individuals that I notified. Many of these professors forgo either (1) more lucrative careers (e.g. teaching economics rather than working on Wall Street) and/or (2) other schools that would allow them to focus more time on more lucrative research opportunities rather than 1-1 teaching and mentoring. We still do not fully understand the long-term health effects from this virus, and there is no need to subject older teachers to this risk while this country has utterly failed to provide enough reliable testing. Why couldn’t professors, who do not feel comfortable teaching in person, instruct their classes remotely from their office and/or home? This has always made the most sense to me, rather than negatively impacting millions of college students lives. There is a modicum or truth to teamer’s post, IMO. I do not have much more to add to PP's response. The professors did not have an issue with teaching remotely; that's what many of them wanted! It's also important to remember that until this country actually gets a handle on this virus, millions of college students are GOING to have their lives negatively impacted for the foreseeable future. In fact, Bloomberg has just reported that Florida posted a record for new COVID-19 deaths, and the Wall Street Journal reported that a Georgia school district is quarantining 800 people in response to a series of outbreaks. This is not going away anytime soon, and lives are on the line.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 11, 2020 10:15:45 GMT -5
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Post by timholycross on Aug 11, 2020 10:40:13 GMT -5
Yes, Tufts' main campus is described on their website as "Medford/Somerville" and Somerville's mayor uses any opportunity to push the panic button.
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 11, 2020 11:02:08 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Aug 11, 2020 11:02:20 GMT -5
At least they and others are trying. Not folding up shop...after sending the tuition bill. The rest are just sheep, with no courage to lead. Yes, I'm disgruntled. My son has lost 25% of his college experience and 25% of his collegiate athletic career/experience. This time is just a brief moment in one's life, and for so much of it to be taken away by a faculty that does not have the fortitude to create and stick to a plan, is disheartening. Instead, son will be living at home, by himself, while his friends are off at school. So much more concerned about his mental well being, but at least HC has rid themselves of any liability
I also feel for you HC Alumni that have to live with this stain and still try to prop up any pride you have left.
Yes, this late-breaking debacle is embarrassing given that the MA phase has been III for a month, Worcester is at only 2.5% in the relevant stat, and MA has essentially green-lighted prudent college openings. I’d assume some of the responsible members of the brain trust up at HC will be shown the door. I know how sorely disappointing (and infuriating) this is for the kids and parents and have no idea as to the long term damage to HC of this sort of a decision. But I’m not changing my screen name.
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Post by alum on Aug 11, 2020 11:06:17 GMT -5
Certainly an HC face plant of epic proportions. Who the heck designs an unnecessarily complex testing plan and then publicly admits it cannot execute its very own self-designed plan and then has to tell the kids to stay home on August 10? Best case it reeks of incompetence and it really ticks off kids/parents. Not a good look. As I have said, I have mixed feelings about these decisions, but I don't agree that the testing plan was unnecessarily complex. Regular weekly testing is called for in congregate settings by lots of experts. While a college may not be exactly a congregate setting like a nursing home or prison, it does involve shared bedrooms, shared bathrooms and a central dining hall (whether or not people actually eat in it.) The only way to avoid spread is regular surveillance. I don't believe college kids are going to self report symptoms. I also don't know that I would criticize colleges for changing their plans. On May 31st, did any of us think that within a few weeks the virus would take off in locations that had otherwise been doing well up until then? I also have to say that college aged kids were their own worst enemies on this thing. The outbreaks among young people all summer have certainly informed these decisions. Transparency would have been giving more detail in early July about exactly what metrics would cause the College to change its plans. If they had done that, I think people would have been less upset. Oh, and waiting until after the tuition bills is a really bad look whether it was intentional or not.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 11, 2020 11:06:29 GMT -5
The idea of mass involuntary testing (and re-testing ) of healthy appearing college kids for Covid (given the particularities of Covid not to mention other reasons) seems a bit wrong-headed. Not to mention a logistical challenge...and almost like a waste of tests given shortages elsewhere.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 11, 2020 11:11:37 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 11, 2020 11:31:57 GMT -5
New Zealand had it's first case in over 100 days and immediately established a modified shut down with their PM saying the world's experience is that countries that succeed against the virus go hard and go early. Meanwhile in the U.S. 250,000 mask-less bikers are partying in Sturgis, SD. What the correct answer is for college re-opening is hard to judge right now. We'll know better at Christmas.
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 11, 2020 12:20:25 GMT -5
New Zealand had it's first case in over 100 days and immediately established a modified shut down with their PM saying the world's experience is that countries that succeed against the virus go hard and go early. Meanwhile in the U.S. 250,000 mask-less bikers are partying in Sturgis, SD. What the correct answer is for college re-opening is hard to judge right now. We'll know better at Christmas. It is one household in New Zealand also that shut everything down. Pretty good response!
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Post by hchoops on Aug 11, 2020 13:49:55 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Aug 11, 2020 16:51:35 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 11, 2020 16:57:27 GMT -5
Certainly an HC face plant of epic proportions. Who the heck designs an unnecessarily complex testing plan and then publicly admits it cannot execute its very own self-designed plan and then has to tell the kids to stay home on August 10? Best case it reeks of incompetence and it really ticks off kids/parents. Not a good look. I am not an epidemiologist by training or profession. My only direct experience with planning for how to deal with potentially dangerous pathogens was in planning a manned Mars mission, and ensuring there was no risk to astronauts, their spacecraft, and ultimately our planet, from what they found. That was complex, to use your adjective. The college's testing plan, IMO, was the opposite of your description. The proposed test program was simple -- students could self-administer; quick, --results promised in 24-36 hours; and inexpensive, -- $25-30 per test. Which of those parameters do you find to be complex? One could argue that the college put all of its eggs in the Broad basket, and failed to have a testing plan B which would cover all the returning students. (When planning the manned Mars mission, there was a Plan B and a Plan C.) What will you say if the college, for the spring semester, plans on using the same testing protocols that were originally proposed for the fall semester? What will you say if the college is using the Broad test for the hundreds of students who will be on campus during the fall semester? If, as you believe, the Broad test protocol is too "complex", what is your proposed alternative?
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Post by hcpride on Aug 11, 2020 16:58:23 GMT -5
Certainly an HC face plant of epic proportions. Who the heck designs an unnecessarily complex testing plan and then publicly admits it cannot execute its very own self-designed plan and then has to tell the kids to stay home on August 10? Best case it reeks of incompetence and it really ticks off kids/parents. Not a good look. I am not an epidemiologist by training or profession. My only direct experience with planning for how to deal with potentially dangerous pathogens was in planning a manned Mars mission, and ensuring there was no risk to astronauts, their spacecraft, and ultimately our planet, from what they found. That was complex, to use your adjective. The college's testing plan, IMO, was the opposite of your description. The proposed test program was simple -- students could self-administer; quick, --results promised in 24-36 hours; and inexpensive, -- $25-30 per test. Which of those parameters do you find to be complex? One could argue that the college put all of its eggs in the Broad basket, and failed to have a testing plan B which would cover all the returning students. (When planning the manned Mars mission, there was a Plan B and a Plan C.) What will you say if the college, for the spring semester, plans on using the same testing protocols that were originally proposed for the fall semester? What will you say if the college is using the Broad test for the hundreds of students who will be on campus during the fall semester? If, as you believe, the Broad test protocol is too "complex", what is your proposed alternative? See Notre Dame.
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Post by lou on Aug 11, 2020 17:35:32 GMT -5
Just talked to a guy who jogs around the neighborhood, his son is an upper classman at BC. He said HC made the right call, wished BC was doing the same
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 11, 2020 17:41:48 GMT -5
Notre Dame is rolling the dice. Based on what alum wrote after looking at Notre Dame du Lac's re-opening plan, they have limited testing capability now, and limited testing capability in the future.
From reading through Purdue's testing plan, it appears that Notre Dame's is similar to Purdue's. Students do a saliva test at home, and send sample to a test lab. This saliva test protocol is developed by Rutgers.
Rutgers say its on-campus testing protocols are dynamic and evolving. The university is developing test protocols and priorities for who will be tested on-campus. The priorities will be based on a risk assessment. Rutger's plan encompasses its health care services, so they are top of the list.
This is Rutger's policy for students in on-campus housing. This is three-step testing being done at the university that developed the test. It appears that neither Purdue nor Notre Dame will be doing steps 2 or 3.
Rutgers says it has done 10,000 tests to date. Broad has done 450,000. I could find no values for how much testing throughput Rutgers can do in a day. The inability to scale because of test reagent issues was Broad's undoing.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 11, 2020 18:11:05 GMT -5
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