|
Post by nhteamer on Aug 10, 2020 15:48:16 GMT -5
THIS IS DRIVEN BY FACULTY WHO REFUSE TO TEACH
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Aug 10, 2020 15:52:10 GMT -5
If faculty "refuse to teach" why are they still faculty? Did you mean faculty who refuse to work in what they (and some others) see as an unsafe environment? That is not the same as refusing to teach. Will those same faculty, in some cases, be teaching through distance learning? You made a strong statement, but I think you may be a bit over the line with that extreme comment.
|
|
|
Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Aug 10, 2020 16:11:52 GMT -5
This Worcester native disagrees with your last sentence. It's quite the opposite, actually. Yes, Spiro Agnew would classify many at HC as "effete intellectual snobs." It wasn't College Hill neighbors who partied and trashed the Holy Cross campus, it was HC students living off campus who partied out of control and trashed the College Hill neighborhood. When I said Worcester loves to bash HC I was thinking of all the times HC gets criticized for having a large endowment and not paying RE taxes and often when the city is in a financial bind the calls for a PILOT program mount. If the city runs up a big deficit from the Polar Park boondoggle and the Covid Recession, look for many voices to call for rich HC and the other colleges and non-profits to be taxed or contribute to a PILOT. What people don't consider is that if Colgate and Bucknell are not paying a PILOT, how is HC supposed to compete with them if they are unilaterally paying. The calls for a PILOT program are not directed solely at HC or colleges in general, but towards all not for profit institutions. Especially when tax paying properties are sold to non profits and come off the tax rolls. I believe about a quarter of all taxable property is now in the hands of not for profit institutions in the city. This is not an anti-HC movement. I am not in favor of a PILOT program for the record.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 10, 2020 17:02:10 GMT -5
/\ First of all I feel bad for my HC and the students enrolled there. I’m guessing HC's complex (and apparently failed) plan for testing was well beyond Massachusetts requirements. When Princeton announced they were pulling the plug they emphasized an inability to comport with New Jersey's social distancing guidelines. But that is neither here nor there. I have to wonder if any frosh are going to defer and if HC will provide a slot for them in next year's frosh class. Too late to transfer I suppose. I'm sure that will come up at the parent briefings With respect to testing, see pages 15-16 of these guidelines prepared by a special task force of Massachusetts college and university presidents. www.mass.edu/covid-19/_documents/2020-05-22%20Higher%20Ed%20Framework%20Briefing%20to%20RAB.pdfAfter reading these guidelines, I would say that HC had planned a more rigorous testing program only with respect to frequency. But there is not much difference between testing someone 2x a week versus once a week. And when compared to University of Florida, which is hardly testing at all, unless one is an athlete or has a pronounced illness. HC was one step below the NFL which is testing everyone daily, and living under a loose bubble. Which is why players continue to be placed on the COVID IR list. From reading Colgate's plan, their idea is to quarantine everyone for 14 days on arrival, and not test initially. There will be subsequent testing but its scope seems limited. Colgate has an advantage of being in a county with a very low number of cases, last I looked 3-4 weeks ago. That is not the case for Worcester city, where the case total is near 6,000.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Aug 10, 2020 17:39:48 GMT -5
Kids/parents who were going to be off campus still have leases; perhaps they can be broken, perhaps not (most likely not). Will most of those students come back? What control does HC have over them except in most cases keeping them off the grounds? They have zero control over off campus. What you're going to have is kids moving into apartments. Doing minimal college work online and then bored out of their minds and you know what happens then. If you make this announcement at the beginning of the summer that's fine. I wouldn't agree with it, but I'd understand. This late, last minute decision is ridiculous. If I was a parent of an HC student I'd be pissed. Amherst College made their announcement on July 1st...UMass Amherst made their announcement on August 6th. I think Amherst College made a MUCH better decision than their crosstown college.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Aug 10, 2020 17:42:08 GMT -5
Will all other schools that are using Broad now go to an online-only format? Mount Holyoke and Smith were using Broad and have also gone to all online. MIT is all online except for those regular exemptions.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 10, 2020 17:50:55 GMT -5
/\ First of all I feel bad for my HC and the students enrolled there. I’m guessing HC's complex (and apparently failed) plan for testing was well beyond Massachusetts requirements. When Princeton announced they were pulling the plug they emphasized an inability to comport with New Jersey's social distancing guidelines. But that is neither here nor there. I have to wonder if any frosh are going to defer and if HC will provide a slot for them in next year's frosh class. Too late to transfer I suppose. I'm sure that will come up at the parent briefings Providing a slot in next year's class for someone who was accepted this year would be an easy decision to make for me if I was a member of TPTB. The answer would be yes as that would make HC that much more selective next year. Also as they say in business, it is easier to retain an existing customer than find a qualified new one.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Aug 10, 2020 19:08:53 GMT -5
/\ First of all I feel bad for my HC and the students enrolled there. I’m guessing HC's complex (and apparently failed) plan for testing was well beyond Massachusetts requirements. When Princeton announced they were pulling the plug they emphasized an inability to comport with New Jersey's social distancing guidelines. But that is neither here nor there. I have to wonder if any frosh are going to defer and if HC will provide a slot for them in next year's frosh class. Too late to transfer I suppose. I'm sure that will come up at the parent briefings Providing a slot in next year's class for someone who was accepted this year would be an easy decision to make for me if I was a member of TPTB. The answer would be yes as that would make HC that much more selective next year. Also as they say in business, it is easier to retain an existing customer than find a qualified new one. It would be the nice thing to do...but one consideration for the school is that nobody’s backfilling that kid’s slot at this point for this year so that is a financial hit (up to 54k per kid) the school can’t recover. Ditto for leave of absence requests.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Aug 10, 2020 19:15:36 GMT -5
They waited until kids had no time to make other plans for the year — and then reversed course. Absolutely shameful.
Great “leadership” from Fr. B.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Aug 10, 2020 21:38:43 GMT -5
Providing a slot in next year's class for someone who was accepted this year would be an easy decision to make for me if I was a member of TPTB. The answer would be yes as that would make HC that much more selective next year. Also as they say in business, it is easier to retain an existing customer than find a qualified new one. It would be the nice thing to do...but one consideration for the school is that nobody’s backfilling that kid’s slot at this point for this year so that is a financial hit (up to 54k per kid) the school can’t recover. Ditto for leave of absence requests. What percentage does Holy Cross pay back on a withdrawal before the semester begins?
|
|
|
Post by hcbball on Aug 10, 2020 22:00:28 GMT -5
For those who think HC is a peer of Notre Dame, the latter conducted 12,000 tests of the students they in have on campus, with 99.7% of them testing negative. HC students, instead, will be at home. Failed leadership
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 10, 2020 22:21:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 10, 2020 22:23:41 GMT -5
It would be the nice thing to do...but one consideration for the school is that nobody’s backfilling that kid’s slot at this point for this year so that is a financial hit (up to 54k per kid) the school can’t recover. Ditto for leave of absence requests. What percentage does Holy Cross pay back on a withdrawal before the semester begins? I think it is 100% minus an administrative fee. There is a $500 continuation fee if you take a year off and take courses elsewhere, but the term continuation fee sounds suspiciously like a fee to withdraw for a year or semester but continue as a student. There is a section labeled refunds under the Bursars Office on HolyCross.edu but they don't make it easy to understand. I took a leave of absence for one semester 47 years ago and do not recall any fee at that time. I recall the approval being automatic and the staff at whatever office I went to as supportive.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 10, 2020 22:48:21 GMT -5
The reporter, Paul Burton, is the son of the late Ron Burton the first ever Boston Patriots draft choice in 1960.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 10, 2020 22:50:59 GMT -5
For those who think HC is a peer of Notre Dame, the latter conducted 12,000 tests of the students they in have on campus, with 99.7% of them testing negative. HC students, instead, will be at home. Failed leadership ND is not a peer of HC. We beat them in the N.I.T.
|
|
|
Post by hceconhist on Aug 10, 2020 22:51:29 GMT -5
THIS IS DRIVEN BY FACULTY WHO REFUSE TO TEACH With all due respect, this is a fairly insensitive comment that fails to take into account the health and safety of said faculty. It is very hard to socially distance in those classrooms, unless you reduce the class sizes even more while maintaining adequate course selection which HC does NOT have the faculty numbers to do. Moreover, you are trivializing the commitment of HC professors who make a lasting impact on their students. I became a parent for the first time very recently, and a handful of my former professors were some of the first non-family individuals that I notified. Many of these professors forgo either (1) more lucrative careers (e.g. teaching economics rather than working on Wall Street) and/or (2) other schools that would allow them to focus more time on more lucrative research opportunities rather than 1-1 teaching and mentoring. We still do not fully understand the long-term health effects from this virus, and there is no need to subject older teachers to this risk while this country has utterly failed to provide enough reliable testing.
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 10, 2020 23:01:48 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Aug 11, 2020 1:16:46 GMT -5
ND will be in a heap of trouble if the on-campus approach blows up and they have no remote learning infrastructure up and running. They should pray to Touchdown Jesus that everything works according to plan. I make the virus a ten point favorite. It's a long season, er semester.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Aug 11, 2020 4:05:25 GMT -5
ND will be in a heap of trouble if the on-campus approach blows up and they have no remote learning infrastructure up and running. They should pray to Touchdown Jesus that everything works according to plan. I make the virus a ten point favorite. It's a long season, er semester. When the PGA reopened and some players tested positive some [many] folks proclaimed ‘failure’, disaster, shut it down’, but the sport persevered. That precise pattern occurred again in MMA, MLS soccer, Major League Baseball, and so on. Ditto the preseason reactions to positive tests amongst Bundesliga, NBA, and NHL athletes. And I’d expect some ND students to test positive and for some [many] folks to proclaim ‘failure, disaster, shut it down’. We’ll see if the schools like ND that reopened campus persevere.
|
|
|
Post by hc6774 on Aug 11, 2020 6:23:46 GMT -5
HC's change of course was covered a lot in local news yesterday; this morning the news is reporting that local officials [Medfield/Sumervlle; Norfolk/Middlesex counties] are asking Tufts to reconsidered its plans to reopen.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 11, 2020 7:22:33 GMT -5
Tufts is in Medford. ___________________________ With respect to Notre Dame, Notre Dame sent test kits to students at home, and the students were tested at home and were allowed on-campus if the tests were negative. At least one student who returned to campus, having tested negative, has now tested positive after becoming symptomatic, and contacts are quarantined. Faculty members claim that faculty have been told by other students that they have tested positive but the university has not confirmed such. I have not researched what Notre Dame is planning with respect to on-campus testing of students, either comprehensively or randomly. www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-covid-19-illinois-colleges-reopening-notre-dame-20200811-otovmwb5rfbmnjrjrbqlhy2wrm-story.html
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Aug 11, 2020 7:41:39 GMT -5
/\ First of all I feel bad for my HC and the students enrolled there. I’m guessing HC's complex (and apparently failed) plan for testing was well beyond Massachusetts requirements. When Princeton announced they were pulling the plug they emphasized an inability to comport with New Jersey's social distancing guidelines. But that is neither here nor there. I have to wonder if any frosh are going to defer and if HC will provide a slot for them in next year's frosh class. Too late to transfer I suppose. I'm sure that will come up at the parent briefings With respect to testing, see pages 15-16 of these guidelines prepared by a special task force of Massachusetts college and university presidents. www.mass.edu/covid-19/_documents/2020-05-22%20Higher%20Ed%20Framework%20Briefing%20to%20RAB.pdfAfter reading these guidelines, I would say that HC had planned a more rigorous testing program only with respect to frequency. But there is not much difference between testing someone 2x a week versus once a week. And when compared to University of Florida, which is hardly testing at all, unless one is an athlete or has a pronounced illness. HC was one step below the NFL which is testing everyone daily, and living under a loose bubble. Which is why players continue to be placed on the COVID IR list. From reading Colgate's plan, their idea is to quarantine everyone for 14 days on arrival, and not test initially. There will be subsequent testing but its scope seems limited. Colgate has an advantage of being in a county with a very low number of cases, last I looked 3-4 weeks ago. That is not the case for Worcester city, where the case total is near 6,000. The thrust of the very broad (cited) task force guidelines (May 22, 2020) is that MA colleges must develop their own plans (including - but no limited to - testing) to ensure safety. HC did just that - and apparently could not meet the specific testing requirements it imposed on itself. As far as Massachusetts requirements go, I think the two threshold requirements (I am not a MA resident) were that MA be in Phase III sustained (Phase III started a month ago in MA) and that Worcester County's rate of positive Covid-19 positive tests be below 10% (currently 2.5%). MA did recently (July 29, July 24, 2020) publish MA Phase III information and checklists for college re-openings: aicum.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Updated-Safe-on-Campus-Document-July-29-2020.pdfwww.mass.gov/doc/higher-education-covid-19-control-plan/downloadIt appears that it was not the MA requirements that tripped up HC in regards to reopening campus, it was the HC-designed testing plan that tripped up HC. (Leaving aside questions of whether or not it was a good and necessary testing plan).
|
|
|
Post by alum on Aug 11, 2020 7:51:04 GMT -5
I spent a few minutes on the ND site and could not find evidence that they are going to continue to test students randomly or on a schedule. Rather, it looks like they have free on campus testing by appointment for those with symptoms or those who have been exposed to someone who has tested positive. (I doubt that they would turn someone away who just wanted one for peace of mind, but who knows.) I give ND credit for trying to come up with a way to get kids on campus, but I would hope that, at a minimum, they would do surveillance testing to get ahead of an outbreak.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Aug 11, 2020 7:52:15 GMT -5
THIS IS DRIVEN BY FACULTY WHO REFUSE TO TEACH With all due respect, this is a fairly insensitive comment that fails to take into account the health and safety of said faculty. It is very hard to socially distance in those classrooms, unless you reduce the class sizes even more while maintaining adequate course selection which HC does NOT have the faculty numbers to do. Moreover, you are trivializing the commitment of HC professors who make a lasting impact on their students. I became a parent for the first time very recently, and a handful of my former professors were some of the first non-family individuals that I notified. Many of these professors forgo either (1) more lucrative careers (e.g. teaching economics rather than working on Wall Street) and/or (2) other schools that would allow them to focus more time on more lucrative research opportunities rather than 1-1 teaching and mentoring. We still do not fully understand the long-term health effects from this virus, and there is no need to subject older teachers to this risk while this country has utterly failed to provide enough reliable testing. Why couldn’t professors, who do not feel comfortable teaching in person, instruct their classes remotely from their office and/or home? This has always made the most sense to me, rather than negatively impacting millions of college students lives. There is a modicum or truth to teamer’s post, IMO.
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 11, 2020 8:12:03 GMT -5
|
|