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Post by trimster on Jun 1, 2021 11:42:15 GMT -5
tim, he’s had interactions with HC fans/alums and posters in his time here and to 92’s point, Ralph win, Brett hasn’t. I am admittedly biased as while he’s run off players (statistically anyway), whether his players are better than what we lost has yet to be proven in the win/loss record I just don’t think all this turnover abandoning the culture of HC athletics has had positive results yet. Ralph wasn’t warm and fuzzy but he won. That was my point. Winning forgives a multitude of sins. Losing, which Brett has done in record numbers, and better be a great shmoozer which he isn’t - at least not yet. Where’s his outreach to Worcester or the alums - or “Non Alums?” 😂 Based on your comments about running off players and interacting with fans and alumni, you seem well-connected to the goings on of the hoop program. I am willing to give BN a pass on his first two years based on his late hiring and inheritance of a team constructed for the Princeton offense and not so much for defense and rebounding. Year two was a season like no other due to Covid. If year three looks a lot like years 1 and 2, then I'd say we have a lot of concerns.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 1, 2021 12:16:54 GMT -5
......but we should acknowledge that Year 2 looked a lot better than Year 1
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jun 1, 2021 12:34:11 GMT -5
......but we should acknowledge that Year 2 looked a lot better than Year 1 And he seems (time will tell) to be able to recruit good players.
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Post by nhteamer on Jun 1, 2021 12:45:00 GMT -5
HC not joining the Big East in hoop has to go down as one of the worst decisions made by a college/university.....oh well. you are wrong 87; it is #1, numero uno, the WORST college athletic decision of ALL TIME.
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Post by Tom on Jun 1, 2021 13:58:54 GMT -5
It's kind of hard to reach out to locals and alumni when there's a plexi-glass barrier between you preventing the spread of COVID.
I agree that the results thus far in the Nelson era have been poor. I am not yet prepared to write off the Nelson era as a total failure
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Post by efg72 on Jun 1, 2021 14:00:04 GMT -5
......but we should acknowledge that Year 2 looked a lot better than Year 1 And he seems (time will tell) to be able to recruit good players. agree-- the questions around player development, teaching offenses and defenses, and overall game management are in the TBD bucket for now. As others have said time will tell,
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 1, 2021 14:41:36 GMT -5
With an additional year of physical development for the sophomore class, and a freshman class that will be able to spend the summer at HC, we should see significant changes to the team.
To be fair to Coach Nelson, he was hired in July of 2019, so year one, with the team he inherited, and two key members transferring out, it was to be expected to be sub optimal year, to be kind. Year two, with two thirds of the team being new, as well as Covid restrictions, it would have taken a seasoned head coach to have been able have a good season. Too many challenges with the guys getting acculturated to HC as well as not being on campus for extensive training during the fall semester.
Year three, it is certainly reasonable to expect dramatically different results, since all but three members of last year’s team will be returning, and four new members having the opportunity this summer to prepare on campus.
Maybe history will repeat, as it took George Blaney until year three to show dramatic improvement, and he did not have the challenges of Covid in year two.
With a dedicated strength and conditioning coach for basketball, Paul Woelmer, arriving from Indiana University, it is expected that the team will spend the off season being trained for the physical challenges of next season. I would expect to see a dramatically different team regarding their physicality.
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Post by purplehaze on Jun 1, 2021 14:53:08 GMT -5
Another quadruple header - this one in Charlotte on Dec 17th - including the local 49ers and Austin - wonder it TD Garden would ever carve out a date for something similar that could include HC ?
St. Bonaventure/Virginia Tech Richmond/NC State Wake Forest/Charlotte East Carolina/Liberty
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Post by bigfan on Jun 1, 2021 15:58:16 GMT -5
TD Garden could care less, they have the Celtics & Bruins. College basketball does not draw fans in Boston. We have to hope that HC improves and maybe we could be invited sometime in the next couple of years in a pre-season set-up somewhere in the USA.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 1, 2021 16:46:40 GMT -5
Guys, guys, guys. My point that I am not making very well is, and some seem to agree, is that there had better be significant improvement in results this coming season, not marginal improvement. The first year was an unmitigated disaster and, sorry, I am not one who gives him a pass because he didn't have his own guys, different system, lost some key players. A good, new coach takes what he has and shows flexibility to make it work. Year two was indeed marginally, VERY marginally, better. If it were not for his first season, I am pretty sure we'd agree the 2nd year was one of, if not, the worst season ever.
I am not of the HC70 school of thought that a coach gets 4-5 years until he gets all his own players and everyone is on board with his system. My bias is because, while not having been other than a successful CYO basketball coach, my business career was the "turnaround" leader that took over 3-4 operations that were weak/high-turnover/low morale/lack of commitment, I worked with the employees that were there, identified problems (sometimes some managers - think assistants) and succeeded.
My sincere hope is everything gets turned around and Brett is the next Ralph Willard. I don't want him to fail but outside of supposedly great recruiting that has not been proven in the win/loss record, I haven't seen much to be optimistic about. Call me a "doubting Thomas." Looking forward to jumping on the "Brett bandwagon> (copyright pending)
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Post by thecrossisback on Jun 1, 2021 16:47:31 GMT -5
Can somebody explain to me what mid major team in much bigger cities than Worcester has a big local fan base it does not exist. Not in Boston not in New York not in Chicago.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 1, 2021 16:55:07 GMT -5
Siena in Albany may or may not be an answer to your question. They seem to have a solid following by fans who aren’t alums.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 1, 2021 16:59:04 GMT -5
Well, he may have doubted but Thomas still achieved sainthood didn’t he?😂
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Jun 1, 2021 17:03:45 GMT -5
Maybe Philly? How about Loyola Chicago? Back before the term "mid major" existed, HC had a big local fan base in Worcester in all sports, but you know that already. I had a subscription to the T&G while at ND so I could follow the Crusaders. None of this is even close to being on topic, sorry.
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Post by trimster on Jun 1, 2021 18:25:05 GMT -5
Guys, guys, guys. My point that I am not making very well is, and some seem to agree, is that there had better be significant improvement in results this coming season, not marginal improvement. The first year was an unmitigated disaster and, sorry, I am not one who gives him a pass because he didn't have his own guys, different system, lost some key players. A good, new coach takes what he has and shows flexibility to make it work. Year two was indeed marginally, VERY marginally, better. If it were not for his first season, I am pretty sure we'd agree the 2nd year was one of, if not, the worst season ever. I am not of the HC70 school of thought that a coach gets 4-5 years until he gets all his own players and everyone is on board with his system. My bias is because, while not having been other than a successful CYO basketball coach, my business career was the "turnaround" leader that took over 3-4 operations that were weak/high-turnover/low morale/lack of commitment, I worked with the employees that were there, identified problems (sometimes some managers - think assistants) and succeeded. My sincere hope is everything gets turned around and Brett is the next Ralph Willard. I don't want him to fail but outside of supposedly great recruiting that has not been proven in the win/loss record, I haven't seen much to be optimistic about. Call me a "doubting Thomas." Looking forward to jumping on the "Brett bandwagon> (copyright pending) It seems the recruiting has been better but I wouldn’t use the term great to describe it. Great at our level would be multiple 3 star recruits in the mix and I don’t think Coach Nelson and staff have gotten anyone rated that high.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 1, 2021 18:31:07 GMT -5
OK, I think I have sufficiently sidetracked this discussion. You all may resume your discussion about the coming season schedule rather than the coach. My apologies. Have too many other issues distracting me. Do hope we'll see an exciting season with great results and interesting opponents.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 1, 2021 21:01:09 GMT -5
Yep. The general public might go see a "big name" team, but that type of team has 0% chance of playing a game in Worcester, for both competitive and financial reasons. Heck, George Mason made the Final 4 the season before they drew flies to the DCU. And the in season tournaments (the Volunteer Classic, that sort of thing) that someone mentioned don't exist for mid majors any more. They've been replaced by events that are the sole property of the bigs. While George Mason was indeed coming off their Final Four season when they came to the DCU, they lost a lot to graduation and were not nearly the same team. Tney were good enough to beat PL champion Holy Cross but were probably 4th or 5th best CAA team that in 06-07. We should've won that game at the DCU. As far as big name teams, UMASS, URI and maybe BC are the best we can hope for. I remember being surprised that the attendance at the last BC game there (which we won) was actually slightly less than what would've fit into the Hart. Great atmosphere though, hope to be at the DCU for a game like that again. When I was a freshman, UCONN women came to the DCU. Not sure what the attendance was but I'd say thats the biggest name team we've gotten to come there since I've been following HC sports. I was at that game against the UConn women. The good sized Huskie fan contingent stood from the start of the game until UConn scored. It was enjoyable to see the Crusaders hold UConn scoreless for a decent amount of time as the UConn faithful shifted their weight from one foot to the other as I recall.
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Post by HC92 on Jun 1, 2021 21:55:28 GMT -5
Yep. When I was a freshman, UCONN women came to the DCU. Not sure what the attendance was but I'd say thats the biggest name team we've gotten to come there since I've been following HC sports. 2412
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Post by timholycross on Jun 2, 2021 6:54:44 GMT -5
HC not joining the Big East in hoop has to go down as one of the worst decisions made by a college/university.....oh well. you are wrong 87; it is #1, numero uno, the WORST college athletic decision of ALL TIME. Univ of Chicago leaving the Big 10? Georgia Tech and South Carolina leaving the ACC and SEC, respectively; and each being stuck in independent limbo for 20 years?
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Post by HCFC45 on Jun 2, 2021 7:43:33 GMT -5
I expect that with winning back-2-back PL championships in football coupled with a head coach with not only a dynamic personality but who has embraced Worcester, despite his Keystone State background, and playing a game in the new city-pride Polar Park that you will see more Worcesterites joining up to watch the Crusader gridders. But, I see none of that in basketball. We have been losing - badly - not just against good and mediocre opponents but against teams that are not even D-1 level. The head coach is not only lacking dynamism, even some long time Crusader fans find him less than friendly. While he was undoubtedly one of the worst head coaches in HC basketball history, Sean Kearney had personality and Milan Brown at least made you feel he was eager to press the flesh with the fans. If you have a losing record but people like you, it'll buy you some time. If your record is atrocious and your personality doesn't bail you out, well . . . . . . . forget bringing in Worcester fans, probably a very short tenure. What chance, exactly, did this guy have to interact with anyone in the last 15 months? He sure seems animated enough during the games, just like Milan did. And he got to Worcester pretty late too with a roster that, in line with your comments, was for the most part not at a D1 level. I generally like who he's recruited compared to his successor.Sounds like Back to the Future! Who's the new Coach and how bad are the recruits?
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 2, 2021 8:09:00 GMT -5
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rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Post by rose22 on Jun 7, 2021 14:46:13 GMT -5
Guys, guys, guys. My point that I am not making very well is, and some seem to agree, is that there had better be significant improvement in results this coming season, not marginal improvement. The first year was an unmitigated disaster and, sorry, I am not one who gives him a pass because he didn't have his own guys, different system, lost some key players. A good, new coach takes what he has and shows flexibility to make it work. Year two was indeed marginally, VERY marginally, better. If it were not for his first season, I am pretty sure we'd agree the 2nd year was one of, if not, the worst season ever. I am not of the HC70 school of thought that a coach gets 4-5 years until he gets all his own players and everyone is on board with his system. My bias is because, while not having been other than a successful CYO basketball coach, my business career was the "turnaround" leader that took over 3-4 operations that were weak/high-turnover/low morale/lack of commitment, I worked with the employees that were there, identified problems (sometimes some managers - think assistants) and succeeded. My sincere hope is everything gets turned around and Brett is the next Ralph Willard. I don't want him to fail but outside of supposedly great recruiting that has not been proven in the win/loss record, I haven't seen much to be optimistic about. Call me a "doubting Thomas." Looking forward to jumping on the "Brett bandwagon> (copyright pending) It seems the recruiting has been better but I wouldn’t use the term great to describe it. Great at our level would be multiple 3 star recruits in the mix and I don’t think Coach Nelson and staff have gotten anyone rated that high. Do you know what makes a player a 3 star recruit?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 7, 2021 18:12:10 GMT -5
Getting recruited by a top program
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rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Post by rose22 on Jun 7, 2021 19:47:48 GMT -5
Getting recruited by a top program Yeah I hear you but as it pertains to the 3 star prospect and HC not having any has many layers to it. I can understand why that’s important to some but times have changed and high school basketball/AAU is over saturated. Top programs/Power 5 schools recruit players that are on shoe/showcase teams usually by their sophomore year in High School. Has nothing to do with “stars” but those players would be categorized as your 4 or 5 star players anyway. Recruiting services aren’t authentic though. If a player doesn’t go to enough camps and play in enough AAU tournaments they won’t be ranked by ESPN or Rivals or 24/7 at all by the time they graduate and will be by default a 2 star. In other words if there not on a shoe sponsored team they won’t get a ranking. Their respective states will rank them but that’s done by talent evaluators who can’t be trusted. The point I’m trying to make is if HC has a bunch of 2 stars it doesn’t mean there not 3 stars it just means they didn’t get enough exposure. Typically due to the lack of showcase teams for the number of players in the country. A 3 star recruit by ESPN/Rivals/24/7 isn’t any different than the players HC has signed. And truth be told I’ve seen 4 star/5 star kids get eaten up by players who weren’t ranked at all but that’s another discussion. For example Seth Curry wasn’t ranked at all out of high school. I believe Steph may have cracked the ESPN ranking if so barely, CJ McCollum as well and the list goes on and on. I say all this to say Brett Nelson is recruiting hard and some of these guys he’s brought in can play at higher levels...the Patriot league is a very strong league but a difficult league to recruit in because it’s all high academic northeast schools...and BN and staff are doing a great job recruiting the hoop state North Carolina. Stars next to a players name means nothing especially if your ranked as a 3 star but you stink. Every player in the country requires development and as long as HC can develop these players HC will be just fine. If every player is a 2 star by default I’m sure it’s safe to say we have some 3 stars if that kind of thing really matters to you. Let’s just hope we have 2/3 star recruits that are 5 star players. I think we have guys that can develop into that.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 7, 2021 20:00:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the details, Rose. Very convincing.
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