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$72,620
May 11, 2021 7:20:33 GMT -5
Post by newfieguy74 on May 11, 2021 7:20:33 GMT -5
The people I know who have gone to UMass have done very well professionally. They are also proud of their school but I would say not with the same zeal that most HC alums feel. HC has some marketing challenges ahead. As noted above its Catholic identity is not as strong a draw, and in some cases very qualified students won't apply (this has always been the case) because it is Catholic. I think it has to sustain itself as a physically beautiful school with elite academics (people really do look at things like student/faculty ratio), rabidly loyal alumni, and generous financial aid. There's not much HC can do about geography. In April I was in Nashville visiting my daughter who is in graduate school at Vanderbilt. The weather was great. Vanderbilt is also a beautiful school, but I would take HC's campus over it any day.
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 7:32:05 GMT -5
Post by gks on May 11, 2021 7:32:05 GMT -5
The people I know who have gone to UMass have done very well professionally. They are also proud of their school but I would say not with the same zeal that most HC alums feel. HC has some marketing challenges ahead. As noted above its Catholic identity is not as strong a draw, and in some cases very qualified students won't apply (this has always been the case) because it is Catholic. I think it has to sustain itself as a physically beautiful school with elite academics (people really do look at things like student/faculty ratio), rabidly loyal alumni, and generous financial aid. There's not much HC can do about geography. In April I was in Nashville visiting my daughter who is in graduate school at Vanderbilt. The weather was great. Vanderbilt is also a beautiful school, but I would take HC's campus over it any day. This three letter phrase is the key to any smaller, private institution moving forward. Schools like Vanderbilt that do not have loans as part of their undergraduate (I cannot comment on graduate) financial aid will thrive.
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 9:06:59 GMT -5
Post by WCHC Sports on May 11, 2021 9:06:59 GMT -5
The people I know who have gone to UMass have done very well professionally. They are also proud of their school but I would say not with the same zeal that most HC alums feel. HC has some marketing challenges ahead. As noted above its Catholic identity is not as strong a draw, and in some cases very qualified students won't apply (this has always been the case) because it is Catholic. I think it has to sustain itself as a physically beautiful school with elite academics (people really do look at things like student/faculty ratio), rabidly loyal alumni, and generous financial aid. There's not much HC can do about geography. In April I was in Nashville visiting my daughter who is in graduate school at Vanderbilt. The weather was great. Vanderbilt is also a beautiful school, but I would take HC's campus over it any day. This three letter phrase is the key to any smaller, private institution moving forward. Schools like Vanderbilt that do not have loans as part of their undergraduate (I cannot comment on graduate) financial aid will thrive. I'm glossing over some basic business principles, but if the college is so quick to be generous with financial aid, then why advertise such a ridiculously high tuition figure in the first place? Why not just offer the bottom dollar smoothed out a bit more with expected payment versus full freight revenue-payers? It's like my wife buying anything. "It USED to be $1,300, but now it can be had for the low-low price of $600!" It's still $600 for thing X.
If they say tuition is $74,000 but they'll let me go for $20k, do they expect I will perceive a discount or "gift" of $54,000 and be more inclined to attend?
I'm getting a bit circuitous... I guess I'm wondering how much of the posted price for the product is to cover expenses and how much of it is marketing/psychology?
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 9:09:01 GMT -5
Post by ts1970 on May 11, 2021 9:09:01 GMT -5
May 9, 2021 22:56:06 GMT -4 ts1970 said: I have no statistics or figures on this.......just my own experiences as well as that of some of my classmates. The value of the HC network: For example, in my case, I had some poor but mostly mediocre grades at HC. Too much goofing off, not enough studying until the last semester of senior year. First semester senior year I had a failing grade and a D+ in another course both in my major. Broke up with the gf that semester.....Mets won the pennant and the series in 69, yadda, yadda, yadda....the Vietnam war moratorium in DC in November.......so didn’t go to class regularly. Overall I recall my gpa was somewhere between 2.0 and 3.0 upon graduation. Much closer to 2.0 than 3.0 as I remember. A year later I had the nerve to apply to law school. I applied to six and was rejected by five. The one that accepted me, Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa had a HC graduate in charge of admissions. He must have convinced the law school administration (there was also a Fordham grad in the admin.) to accept me, and things worked out. I graduated three years later and passed the NJ bar exam on my first attempt and went on to have a successful career as a lawyer. Although I never spoke to the man, I am convinced to this day that the HC connection at that law school was the key to my getting the opportunity to become a lawyer and work in my chosen profession. Good points TS. That fellow alum opened a door for you and then you put in a half century of good work. Perhaps we should give the opportunity your HC connection gave you more than one percent of the credit for your success and your work less than 99% of the credit, but it's not an exact science. Either way a great Holy Cross success story. Without the opportunity that I firmly believe was provided through the HC network, my hope for a career as a lawyer was dead in the water. To my mind that help was invaluable.
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 9:51:21 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by hcpride on May 11, 2021 9:51:21 GMT -5
If you’re a Mass. resident, sending little Johnny to UMass for $16K a year doesn’t sound too bad. Is an HC education four times better than UMass? Doubt it. The 16K figure is only tuition. With everything included, it's about $31K. So the question is whether a HC education is a little better than twice as good. Suppose full cost at a private school is 73K and 31K at an equally respected public college. Yes, it is only about double in theory BUT if a student is borrowing money for part of tuition (let’s say he has 20k per year in the bank ...a total of 80k ) attending the private school can easily rack up four times (or more) of debt v the state school. (Of course cost is not the only consideration, one can find cheaper and more respected public alternatives to many private colleges.)
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 11, 2021 10:36:03 GMT -5
This three letter phrase is the key to any smaller, private institution moving forward. Schools like Vanderbilt that do not have loans as part of their undergraduate (I cannot comment on graduate) financial aid will thrive. I'm glossing over some basic business principles, but if the college is so quick to be generous with financial aid, then why advertise such a ridiculously high tuition figure in the first place? Why not just offer the bottom dollar smoothed out a bit more with expected payment versus full freight revenue-payers? It's like my wife buying anything. "It USED to be $1,300, but now it can be had for the low-low price of $600!" It's still $600 for thing X.
If they say tuition is $74,000 but they'll let me go for $20k, do they expect I will perceive a discount or "gift" of $54,000 and be more inclined to attend?
I'm getting a bit circuitous... I guess I'm wondering how much of the posted price for the product is to cover expenses and how much of it is marketing/psychology?
With consumer products--and I had decades of experience in this area-price is the greatest predictor of consumers' quality perception. The higher you price the item, the more consumers believe it to be high quality when you conduct research on it. I believe this clearly holds true for colleges, so if you want to be perceived as at the same level as an elite group of colleges you need to be priced with them. As well, there are a certain number of parents who will pay full price for their children (I did) so a school wants to get those extra $$$ in the bank. A few schools have tried the value-priced model (Rice comes right to mind) but I have not checked tuition there)
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Post by mm67 on May 11, 2021 10:52:00 GMT -5
What does a parent do if his child states he/she wants to attend HC or another private school and not a state university? It is not always the parents sole decision to decide the school. For instance, recently( last 10 years.) a NY friend's daughter, a very good student visited various colleges in the SUNY system, Albany & Binghamton. The dorms were not tidy, obvious smell of weed, etc. She told her Dad she was not comfortable with the schools, dorms, campus, etc. They visited the doorms at Fordham, got the feel of the place. As he related. it was like night & day. FU's dorms were bright & clean. Campus was peaceful which she preferred. Also, she was more comfortable in a Catholic school setting She chose to stay on campus at Fordham. (She was not interested in HC.) She chose Fordham, the Dad paid and it was the best decision for her. She loved the school. Graduated, went on for a graduate degree at NYU. Sometimes it is more than dollars & cents, ROI, prestige ( state schools are decent.) The dad was concerned if he pushed a school she did not like, it could have created real issues for her & the family. Although, he did admit if she chose a school that he viewed as disastrous there would have been a "problem."( He mentioned Antioch,Bard. Good for some not for others.) The Dad said "we found a way" and was delighted.
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Post by matunuck on May 11, 2021 11:07:28 GMT -5
The market will determine whether a school's tuition is worth the cost. The value added for HC is its strong academic reputation. If that erodes, students will chose one of the many other cheaper Catholic colleges or another LAC etc. HC's academic rep among high school guidance counselors needs work and obviously growing the endowment is critical as others have pointed out.
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Post by hc87 on May 11, 2021 11:26:35 GMT -5
The alumni network though at UMass is so much bigger so that could be a negative for the private schools...🤷♂️ I see that with my students. Lately, more kids are picking SUNY Binghamton over Fordham. Don’t assume the test scores and prestige are higher at the Jesuit school. Don’t assume the Bing alumni network is smaller or somehow less accomplished. And, as NY residents, the cost of attendance is substantially lower at Bing. Ditto Stony Brook for STEM v several private schools (including our Pennsy friends). The two very recent trends I see are kids continuing to look south and more and more of the brighter kids picking the well-regarded state schools. Would not shock me to see the same in MA. Yup....I've seen that a lot in the last 20 or so years. I don't think I knew anyone at my Catholic HS or friends in public ones during the '80s that went to a big public Southern school then. Lot of kids now from Mass. are going to U South Carolina, Clemson, Alabama etc. That and "city schools" seem to be the popular draws for many. Can't do anything about the latter but hopefully Woo becomes more and more attractive to young students.
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 11:38:37 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by hcpride on May 11, 2021 11:38:37 GMT -5
What does a parent do if his child states he/she wants to attend HC or another private school and not a state university? It is not always the parents sole decision to decide the school. For instance, recently( last 10 years.) a NY friend's daughter, a very good student visited various colleges in the SUNY system, Albany & Binghamton. The dorms were not tidy, obvious smell of weed, etc. She told her Dad she was not comfortable with the schools, dorms, campus, etc. They visited the doorms at Fordham, got the feel of the place. As he related. it was like night & day. FU's dorms were bright & clean. Campus was peaceful which she preferred. Also, she was more comfortable in a Catholic school setting She chose to stay on campus at Fordham. (She was not interested in HC.) She chose Fordham, the Dad paid and it was the best decision for her. She loved the school. Graduated, went on for a graduate degree at NYU. Sometimes it is more than dollars & cents, ROI, prestige ( state schools are decent.) The dad was concerned if he pushed a school she did not like, it could have created real issues for her & the family. Although, he did admit if she chose a school that he viewed as disastrous there would have been a "problem."( He mentioned Antioch,Bard. Good for some not for others.) The Dad said "we found a way" and was delighted. No doubt everyone is different and things change over time. There are some very good reasons (including competition from well-regarded schools like SUNY Binghamton, etc) why Fordham’s acceptance rate was 58% (!) this year. Some folks are surprised to discover Binghamton’s (for example) test scores are higher than Fordham’s. And the academic reputation of Binghamton is as great or better than Fordham among the kids I teach. One example of things changing is the outstanding NYS (Excelsior) program that permits kids with reportable family incomes of 125k or less to attend a SUNY tuition free. That started 4 years ago. And has had an impact.
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 12:01:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by hcpride on May 11, 2021 12:01:56 GMT -5
I see that with my students. Lately, more kids are picking SUNY Binghamton over Fordham. Don’t assume the test scores and prestige are higher at the Jesuit school. Don’t assume the Bing alumni network is smaller or somehow less accomplished. And, as NY residents, the cost of attendance is substantially lower at Bing. Ditto Stony Brook for STEM v several private schools (including our Pennsy friends). The two very recent trends I see are kids continuing to look south and more and more of the brighter kids picking the well-regarded state schools. Would not shock me to see the same in MA. Yup....I've seen that a lot in the last 20 or so years. I don't think I knew anyone at my Catholic HS or friends in public ones during the '80s that went to a big public Southern school then. Lot of kids now from Mass. are going to U South Carolina, Clemson, Alabama etc. That and "city schools" seem to be the popular draws for many. Can't do anything about the latter but hopefully Woo becomes more and more attractive to young students. Just eyeballed Chaminade’s (a common NY feeder school in the past to HC) 2020 destinations for their 400 kids. 16 (must be some sort of record) to Notre Dame, 9 to Fordham, 8 to PC, 7 to BC, 7 to Nova, and 2 to HC. But 26 to SUNY Binghamton and 13 to South Carolina - 35 years ago it would be about 0 and definitely 0, respectively. (And 3 to Yale which is about the same number they always have. )
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 12:23:41 GMT -5
Post by bfoley82 on May 11, 2021 12:23:41 GMT -5
I see that with my students. Lately, more kids are picking SUNY Binghamton over Fordham. Don’t assume the test scores and prestige are higher at the Jesuit school. Don’t assume the Bing alumni network is smaller or somehow less accomplished. And, as NY residents, the cost of attendance is substantially lower at Bing. Ditto Stony Brook for STEM v several private schools (including our Pennsy friends). The two very recent trends I see are kids continuing to look south and more and more of the brighter kids picking the well-regarded state schools. Would not shock me to see the same in MA. Yup....I've seen that a lot in the last 20 or so years. I don't think I knew anyone at my Catholic HS or friends in public ones during the '80s that went to a big public Southern school then. Lot of kids now from Mass. are going to U South Carolina, Clemson, Alabama etc. That and "city schools" seem to be the popular draws for many. Can't do anything about the latter but hopefully Woo becomes more and more attractive to young students. I have seen alot of Mass/Rhode Island kids going to Elon which has shocked me....
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Post by newfieguy74 on May 11, 2021 12:36:13 GMT -5
You're right about Elon. Years ago it had a poor reputation but, for some reason, it became a trendy school for kids from the Northeast. So much of this is subjective. James Madison is another one.
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 12:38:43 GMT -5
Post by mm67 on May 11, 2021 12:38:43 GMT -5
My dentist is a Fordham grad. His daughter, a graduate of Albertus Magnus HS, is attending U of Alabama, the Crimson Tide. She loves it. The dad told me that more than 50% of the admissions at Alabama were from out-of-state. Roll Tide.
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 13:57:36 GMT -5
Post by newfieguy74 on May 11, 2021 13:57:36 GMT -5
All schools love geographic diversity. My daughter applied to a number of very good liberal arts schools in the midwest (Carleton, Macalester, College of Wooster, etc.). They were all happy to accept a good student from CT and she received generous merit-based financial aid from all of them. Back in the day, it probably helped my application to HC that I was from Va.
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$72,620
May 11, 2021 14:05:22 GMT -5
Post by rickii on May 11, 2021 14:05:22 GMT -5
My dentist is a Fordham grad. His daughter, a graduate of Albertus Magnus HS, is attending U of Alabama, the Crimson Tide. She loves it. The dad told me that more than 50% of the admissions at Alabama were from out-of-state. Roll Tide. Can't say about currently but about 18-20 years ago kids from Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey equaled about 35% of the total enrollment at....Clemson !
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 11, 2021 15:15:39 GMT -5
All schools love geographic diversity. My daughter applied to a number of very good liberal arts schools in the midwest (Carleton, Macalester, College of Wooster, etc.). They were all happy to accept a good student from CT and she received generous merit-based financial aid from all of them. Back in the day, it probably helped my application to HC that I was from Va. What school did she choose?
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Post by newfieguy74 on May 11, 2021 16:01:58 GMT -5
All schools love geographic diversity. My daughter applied to a number of very good liberal arts schools in the midwest (Carleton, Macalester, College of Wooster, etc.). They were all happy to accept a good student from CT and she received generous merit-based financial aid from all of them. Back in the day, it probably helped my application to HC that I was from Va. What school did she choose? She went to the College of Wooster, a somewhat unheralded but wonderful school about an hour south of Cleveland. From there she did a year of City Year in DC, a two year research fellowship at NIH (never met Dr, F.), and is now two years into getting her Doctorate in Audiology at Vanderbilt. It's all worked out great. For her, and many students choosing college, it's very important that the school is a good fit.
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$72,620
May 12, 2021 12:03:16 GMT -5
Post by hc87 on May 12, 2021 12:03:16 GMT -5
UMass-Amherst is also not seen as the "ZooMass" many of us of a certain age remembah it being known as/called. I don't know the exact particulars but they, like the SUNYs as hcpride mentioned, now offer a lot of scholarship aid etc. to outstanding HS students. I have no doubt we (HC) have lost many potential students to them ovah our stickahh price lately.
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Post by Chu Chu on May 13, 2021 22:53:12 GMT -5
What we can do as alums is give to help the college award financial aid. More important now than ever!
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