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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 12, 2022 18:38:00 GMT -5
I honestly believe HC will start using a 5th year more often. They see the power in it. Medical redshirt of some sort for Frosh and ask them to do a 9th semester with a double major. I have no inside knowledge but I view this as a viable option for the future and one I believe the coaches will start to use. I’m 100% in favor. Hurts no one. I had thought that the number of semesters at Holy Cross was capped at eight. My thinking was wrong. Year one: rostered. Year two: fall semester. not rostered. Year three: rostered Year four: rostered. Year five, fall semester: rostered. So the equivalent of a non-medical redshirt.
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Post by classof83 on Dec 12, 2022 18:58:22 GMT -5
I honestly believe HC will start using a 5th year more often. They see the power in it. Medical redshirt of some sort for Frosh and ask them to do a 9th semester with a double major. I have no inside knowledge but I view this as a viable option for the future and one I believe the coaches will start to use. I’m 100% in favor. Hurts no one. I had thought that the number of semesters at Holy Cross was capped at eight. My thinking was wrong. Year one: rostered. Year two: fall semester. not rostered. Year three: rostered Year four: rostered. Year five, fall semester: rostered. So the equivalent of a non-medical redshirt. Sounds like a sound strategy to get a "fifth" year from a player. Seems like this strategy would be unique to only sports who start and end in the same semester. Unfortunately, this strategy, i assume, doesn't work for basketball.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 12, 2022 19:04:44 GMT -5
As I said the staff and players figured it out, but it would be great for the league that struggles how to think about athletics to make this policy. Unless we move our school to PA they will sit on their elitist hands
All in favor of leaving the league or moving it's headquarters to Worcester, now is your chance to speak out
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Post by cruskater31 on Dec 12, 2022 21:59:11 GMT -5
Marked those 4th year seniors who appeared on the Fordham two deep (plus anyone who started week 1 and is now injured) with an asterisk to give folks a sense of who might be on the list to bring back. One star is first string. Two star is second string. Some not starred are obviously key pieces for us. Ayir Asante* Devin Haskins* Jared Kreimer* (punt returner) Jordan Forrest Griffin Wiegel Tyler Purdy* (kick returner) Jonathan Young Jacob Dobbs* (started week one) Kam Molton** Hugh Kelly Hunter Burns* (started week one) Adam Guillemette** (backup long snapper) Ben Blessing James Schnell CJ Hanson* Pat McMurtrie* (started week one) Dalton Daddona** Jack Coulson Dom Thomas** Sean Morris* Thomas Kiessling Patrick Haughney* Gotta bring back a good bunch of 5th years to compete (again) for the FCS national championship. Obviously. If we want to ratchet down our goal quite a bit (compete for PL Champs or Ram-Crusader Cup or Bucknell-HC Polar Park Champs or something along those lines) we can do without the 5th-years. totally agree. And not for anything I'm not satisfied with PL champs and a one and done in the playoffs. We have too tight of a team, chemistry, and culture to loose too many 5th years. Time to get an MBA program or sports management (just did a M.Ed. in that from Endicott, might interest some of the players)! Can we go to the Southland and keep these guys for 7 years? Geography be damned give me UIW haha
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 12, 2022 22:05:29 GMT -5
I honestly believe HC will start using a 5th year more often. They see the power in it. Medical redshirt of some sort for Frosh and ask them to do a 9th semester with a double major. I have no inside knowledge but I view this as a viable option for the future and one I believe the coaches will start to use. I’m 100% in favor. Hurts no one. Peter Pujols and many others have utilized the non-medical redshirt (PL-permitted). Differentiates us from the Ivies (who permit no redshirts at all). I see us moving to the non-medical redshirt once the Covid 5th-year kids depart. Pujals was a medical redshirt. He went down in the Dartmouth game (Homecoming IIRC) in 2016 which was early enough in the season to earn a fifth year, which he utilized in 2017. NON-medical redshirts are still not allowed unless there's a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic. This is the change that needs to be worked on for the PL to ever get a team past the FCS quarterfinals again.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 12, 2022 22:53:17 GMT -5
Peter Pujols and many others have utilized the medical redshirt (PL-permitted). Differentiates us from the Ivies (who permit no redshirts at all). I see us moving to the non-medical redshirt once the Covid 5th-year kids depart. Pujals was a medical redshirt. He went down in the Dartmouth game (Homecoming IIRC) in 2016 which was early enough in the season to earn a fifth year, which he utilized in 2017. NON-medical redshirts are still not allowed unless there's a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic. This is the change that needs to be worked on for the PL to ever get a team past the FCS quarterfinals again. Misprint (brain lock, since corrected) by me. Of course Peter was medical. As I recall he then sat out spring of senior year and played his 5th season in the fall.
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hcdad22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 92
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Post by hcdad22 on Dec 13, 2022 8:31:44 GMT -5
I wanted to share some of the reasons why a player with eligibility left may or may not stay, from my own perspective. Every player's reasoning is different.
My son graduated this past May, had an extra year of eligibility and decided to graduate and not play anywhere.
Reason to Stay Teammates - My son has brothers for life, many returned to play this past fall. Coaches - Many of these players would run through a wall for these coaches. The school - You alumni know what I'm talking about, and at their age, who wants to leave school. Playing time - My son was a 3-year starter, was basically his job to lose Team - Everyone knew the team would be loaded this year. Football - play the game you love; you have the rest of your life to work.
Reasons to Leave Had a successful career, got to start for 3 years, had his ESPN moment Walking away healthy. No NFL aspirations. It would make sense to stay if there was a shot at the NFL. Holy Cross Academics (here's the big one). One of the reasons my son choose Holy Cross was because of the academics. The plan was 4 years, get good grades and hopefully get a job or go to grad school. In a way Holy Cross was its own worst enemy. Through the school, my son got a great internship that led to a great job offer before his senior year. Holy Cross came through. No job, possibly coming back for the fifth year. No Grad School (another big one)- If Holy Cross had a grad school, different conversation. These players are spending another semester at school and still graduating with an undergraduate degree that they could have gotten the previous May. Granted it might be a double major or extra minor.
Financial This differs by player. Players are either on full, partial or no scholarships. They may or may not be getting money for the fifth year. Some with job offers might want to start working if their families had been paying tuition.
Grad School Players could go somewhere and get their graduate degree paid for. Case in point - Foley at Duke.
I applaud the players that come back for the 5th year, they are giving up graduating on time and starting their careers.
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Post by dharry13 on Dec 13, 2022 8:36:12 GMT -5
Well done hcdad22 and your son had a great career - and what an ESPN moment that was. I saw him back for the UNH game. I helped him on a presentation he did last summer for his internship as I lived in that world for about 8 years.
Regarding who's coming and who's going - from my best guesses the kids who appear to be coming back are Dobbs, Haughney, Haskins, Molton, Hanson, McMurtie, Thomas, Purdy, Forrest, Kreimer. I've heard Morris on the fence. Not sure on Burns or Daddona.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Dec 13, 2022 8:36:43 GMT -5
hcdad22, thanks for these helpful insights. Thanks also to you and your son for your contributions to HC. One of the ongoing hallmarks of HC: great kids, great families.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 13, 2022 8:37:24 GMT -5
Thank you for your fine insight, HC dad, and for your son’s reasoning and contributions to HC.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 13, 2022 8:40:10 GMT -5
Well done hcdad22 and your son had a great career - and what an ESPN moment that was. I saw him back for the UNH game. I helped him on a presentation he did last summer for his internship as I lived in that world for about 8 years. Regarding who's coming and who's going - from my best guesses the kids who appear to be coming back are Dobbs, Haughney, Haskins, Molton, Hanson, McMurtie, Thomas, Purdy, Forrest, Kreimer. I've heard Morris on the fence. Not sure on Burns or Daddona. That list is great news. Thanks, as always, dharry, for your sharing your insights and information.
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Post by hc4life on Dec 13, 2022 9:01:14 GMT -5
I wanted to share some of the reasons why a player with eligibility left may or may not stay, from my own perspective. Every player's reasoning is different. My son graduated this past May, had an extra year of eligibility and decided to graduate and not play anywhere. Reason to Stay Teammates - My son has brothers for life, many returned to play this past fall. Coaches - Many of these players would run through a wall for these coaches. The school - You alumni know what I'm talking about, and at their age, who wants to leave school. Playing time - My son was a 3-year starter, was basically his job to lose Team - Everyone knew the team would be loaded this year. Football - play the game you love; you have the rest of your life to work. Reasons to Leave Had a successful career, got to start for 3 years, had his ESPN moment Walking away healthy. No NFL aspirations. It would make sense to stay if there was a shot at the NFL. Holy Cross Academics (here's the big one). One of the reasons my son choose Holy Cross was because of the academics. The plan was 4 years, get good grades and hopefully get a job or go to grad school. In a way Holy Cross was its own worst enemy. Through the school, my son got a great internship that led to a great job offer before his senior year. Holy Cross came through. No job, possibly coming back for the fifth year. No Grad School (another big one)- If Holy Cross had a grad school, different conversation. These players are spending another semester at school and still graduating with an undergraduate degree that they could have gotten the previous May. Granted it might be a double major or extra minor. Financial This differs by player. Players are either on full, partial or no scholarships. They may or may not be getting money for the fifth year. Some with job offers might want to start working if their families had been paying tuition. Grad School Players could go somewhere and get their graduate degree paid for. Case in point - Foley at Duke. I applaud the players that come back for the 5th year, they are giving up graduating on time and starting their careers. This is a great Post. Speaks to the flexibility HC offers along with the restrictions it has to compete for a National Title without the Grad School
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Post by mm67 on Dec 13, 2022 10:21:17 GMT -5
I could be wrong. The great, legendary teams of the '80's & early 90's did not have non-medical redshirts. And, they competed at the highest level of FCS. And, I would think that the wise & wonderful comment by hcdad22 could apply to many of those true student-athletes from that era. The student-athletes at HC are special.(As was the case in my day, mid-60's.) Holy Cross is a special place.
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Post by hc2020 on Dec 13, 2022 10:25:25 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents: Football is the only team sport that leaves no ability to play after you hang up your cleats for the last time. You can continue to play basketball at your local YMCA, park or men’s league. The same for hockey, baseball (softball included), golf, tennis, etc. When tackle football comes to an end, however, it is OVER forever. Only those who played football can really appreciate how abrupt and final the ending truly is when it happens. I remember my last game (as I am sure everyone else does). I was very emotional and refused to take my uniform off until I had no choice because I knew it would be the last time I ever suited up. For that reason, and that reason alone, I would have played until they told me I could no longer do so.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 13, 2022 10:40:20 GMT -5
I could be wrong. The great, legendary teams of the '80's & early 90's did not have non-medical redshirts. And, they competed at the highest level of FCS. And, I would think that the wise & wonderful comment by hcdad22 could apply to many of those true student-athletes from that era. The student-athletes at HC are special.(As was the case in my day, mid-60's.) Holy Cross is a special place. Yes, and the Cousy, Heinsohn, et al HC hoops teams also did not have NIL deals and competed for NCAA/NIT championships. Both are not really relevant to HC football & hoops today.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 13, 2022 10:56:50 GMT -5
As I said the staff and players figured it out, but it would be great for the league that struggles how to think about athletics to make this policy. Unless we move our school to PA they will sit on their elitist hands All in favor of leaving the league or moving it's headquarters to Worcester, now is your chance to speak out Elitists without being elite. The PL is near elite academically at best. Sports are one of the few areas the needle can be moved upward at a faster than glacial pace. Reasonable adjustments that can be made to facilitate success should be made.
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Post by Tom on Dec 13, 2022 11:00:49 GMT -5
I could be wrong. The great, legendary teams of the '80's & early 90's did not have non-medical redshirts. And, they competed at the highest level of FCS. And, I would think that the wise & wonderful comment by hcdad22 could apply to many of those true student-athletes from that era. The student-athletes at HC are special.(As was the case in my day, mid-60's.) Holy Cross is a special place. Unless, my memory fails me, I had a classmate who somehow did not graduate with us and played football the following fall. I do not remember the circumstances of why or how he stayed
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Post by efg72 on Dec 13, 2022 11:01:20 GMT -5
While Holy Cross provides a strong liberal arts undergraduate education and will continue to do so in the years ahead, we all evolve.
I go back to 1972 and the decision for Holy Cross to become co-ed, and many of our finest alums were very upset and pulled back their support because the world was ending.
Adding a few specific graduate programs - public health, entrepreneurship, literature, and, perhaps, STEM education- would align with a liberal arts education. They could be two-semester degree programs and help our students take that next step forward as health leaders, building the frame with business start-ups and future educators.
Just a thought, after all, we all evolve, and most of us are different today than the day we first walked on campus. Perhaps this is a special time in the history of Holy Cross for us to consider doing something creative to grow and enrich the Holy Cross experience.
Again it is just a thought, and we could limit the size of each program offered to 25-30 students per year.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 13, 2022 11:21:55 GMT -5
When UMass Medical School was proposed it was opposed by Harvard, Tufts and B.U. Medical Schools as if the world was ending. Perhaps to pacify them and their influential supporters, the new State Medical School was billed as a training ground for actual practicing GPs in the State which were needed. UMass Med has evolved since then of course.
If there is one field that has been decimated just as it's need has been highlighted, it's actual working local public health professionals. A new graduate school of public health billed as a training ground for actual working local public health professionals might garner significant support external to HC's own resources and potential donations from within the HC community.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 13, 2022 11:24:21 GMT -5
Re: 5th year eligibility via non-med red shirting. Respectfully, evolving to suit the academic mission of the college is one thing. Altering academics by developing a fifth year or extra semester to benefit athletics is quite another. It's a question of the underlying philosophy which guides the actions of our great college. Great minds can respectfully agree to disagree. Peace
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Post by cruskater31 on Dec 13, 2022 22:00:40 GMT -5
When UMass Medical School was proposed it was opposed by Harvard, Tufts and B.U. Medical Schools as if the world was ending. Perhaps to pacify them and their influential supporters, the new State Medical School was billed as a training ground for actual practicing GPs in the State which were needed. UMass Med has evolved since then of course. If there is one field that has been decimated just as it's need has been highlighted, it's actual working local public health professionals. A new graduate school of public health billed as a training ground for actual working local public health professionals might garner significant support external to HC's own resources and potential donations from within the HC community. The integrated science complex with Smith Labs opened my senior year. I was a Poli Sci major but did take an Astronomy course with Prof. Garvey and my sciency roommate and friends often studied there. I visited him at Georgia where he went for his PhD and visited another at BU. I can tell you our labs are on par or better than both of them (Coming from a non-science major at least). I can see that working but it would take a seismic shift in culture that I am not sure would be welcomed by all or many. I love the uniqueness of an entirely undergrad campus. I worked a Georgetown for 3 years and while the heart of campus (Healy, Copley, White-Gravenor) was mostly undergrads the campus had a lot of all age groups it seemed and was huge. Made HC seem like a prep school and BC like a small undergraduate college. Walking from the Med Center down to the library might as well been 26.2. I wonder if we can support even a small grad program from an infrastructure point of view-even if it is completely non-residential. That being said I would support anything within reason (and size) which would help advance the College, our academic reputation, and our athletics.
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