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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 16, 2022 11:19:53 GMT -5
Their first 3 seasons’ winning percentages and PL finishes: Langel- 33%. 7th of 8, 5th of 8, 7th of 10 Nelson -22% 10th of 10, 8th of 10, tied for 7th of 10 Langel has obviously improved that, but I think that is a true equivalency PL Winning % through first three years: Langel: .282 Nelson: .269 In Year 4, Langel was 12-6 and finished second in the pL. 12-6 is right around my minimum expectations for what we need to see from HCBN this year.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 16, 2022 11:23:05 GMT -5
Langel was at Colgate for 7 years before the Transfer Portal was created. Langel had a losing record in his first 6 seasons (when the Transfer Portal did not exist). But don't let facts get in the way of your false equivalence! How would you compare Langel's recruiting with Nelson's? Based on what I could gather from a quick look at rosters, the top guys that Langel brought in during his first 4 years were: -Austin Tillotson -Ethan Jacobs -Murphy Burnatowski -Damon Sherman-Newsome Comps for Nelson -Gerale Gates -Kyrel Luc -Will Batchelder -Bo Montgomery (Followed by Caleb Kenny and Louth) At minimum very comparable, if not advantage to Nelson.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 16, 2022 11:35:27 GMT -5
Their first 3 seasons’ winning percentages and PL finishes: Langel- 33%. 7th of 8, 5th of 8, 7th of 10 Nelson -22% 10th of 10, 8th of 10, tied for 7th of 10 Langel has obviously improved that, but I think that is a true equivalency PL Winning % through first three years: Langel: .282 Nelson: .269 In Year 4, Langel was 12-6 and finished second in the pL. 12-6 is right around my minimum expectations for what we need to see from HCBN this year. Okay--the fact that Langel had a horrendous start to his tenure at Colgate, and then succeeded, does not guarantee that Nelson, who has had a horrendous start to his tenure at HC will also go on to succeed. I guess you are trying to buy time. As far as HC going 12-6 in PL play this season I'd say the odds of that have to be 50-1 against.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 16, 2022 11:42:24 GMT -5
PL Winning % through first three years: Langel: .282 Nelson: .269 In Year 4, Langel was 12-6 and finished second in the pL. 12-6 is right around my minimum expectations for what we need to see from HCBN this year. Okay--the fact that Langel had a horrendous start to his tenure at Colgate, and then succeeded, does not guarantee that Nelson, who has had a horrendous start to his tenure at HC will also go on to succeed. I guess you are trying to buy time. As far as HC going 12-6 in PL play this season I'd say the odds of that have to be 50-1 against. Where did I ever say anything like that? Both coaches inherited awful programs and both coaches performed very poorly in their first three years. We only know how one of the two performed from that point forward (starting with a 3-10 OOC & 12-6 PL record in Year 4). Where would you put the odds for Nelson to equal or surpass Langel's Year 4 D1 OOC win total of 2 (vs #301 Campbell & #322 Binghamton)?
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Post by hchoops on Nov 16, 2022 11:52:07 GMT -5
Okay--the fact that Langel had a horrendous start to his tenure at Colgate, and then succeeded, does not guarantee that Nelson, who has had a horrendous start to his tenure at HC will also go on to succeed. I guess you are trying to buy time. As far as HC going 12-6 in PL play this season I'd say the odds of that have to be 50-1 against. Where did I ever say anything like that? Both coaches inherited awful programs and both coaches performed very poorly in their first three years. We only know how one of the two performed from that point forward (starting with a 3-10 OOC & 12-6 PL record in Year 4). Where would you put the odds for Nelson to equal or surpass Langel's Year 4 D1 OOC win total of 2 (vs #301 Campbell & #322 Binghamton)? Contradiction ? Was Langel’s year 4 OOC win total 3 or 2 ? You use both.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 16, 2022 12:16:48 GMT -5
Where did I ever say anything like that? Both coaches inherited awful programs and both coaches performed very poorly in their first three years. We only know how one of the two performed from that point forward (starting with a 3-10 OOC & 12-6 PL record in Year 4). Where would you put the odds for Nelson to equal or surpass Langel's Year 4 D1 OOC win total of 2 (vs #301 Campbell & #322 Binghamton)? Contradiction ? Was Langel’s year 4 OOC win total 3 or 2 ? You use both. Three total wins, but one was against a D3 team.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 16, 2022 12:34:52 GMT -5
Okay--the fact that Langel had a horrendous start to his tenure at Colgate, and then succeeded, does not guarantee that Nelson, who has had a horrendous start to his tenure at HC will also go on to succeed. I guess you are trying to buy time. As far as HC going 12-6 in PL play this season I'd say the odds of that have to be 50-1 against. Where did I ever say anything like that? Both coaches inherited awful programs and both coaches performed very poorly in their first three years. We only know how one of the two performed from that point forward (starting with a 3-10 OOC & 12-6 PL record in Year 4). Where would you put the odds for Nelson to equal or surpass Langel's Year 4 D1 OOC win total of 2 (vs #301 Campbell & #322 Binghamton)? Okay, so you’re trying to buy more time for Coach Nelson. I get it. With your foundation of the specious comparison of Nelson to Langel you’re now going to say that if HC wins more OOC games this year than Langel’s team did in his fourth year then our program is still headed for success. The day of reckoning is coming this year. I pray that, against all odds, HC has a banner season and you are proved correct. Sadly, I’d have to bet against that
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Post by hchoops on Nov 16, 2022 12:40:20 GMT -5
As I recall, BBC predicted 22 wins. If he is saying 12 PL wins are his minimum, thus his prediction must mean a total of 10 OOC plus post season wins
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Post by hchoops on Nov 16, 2022 12:52:36 GMT -5
Just found his prediction of 9 OOC wins
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 16, 2022 13:13:19 GMT -5
Where did I ever say anything like that? Both coaches inherited awful programs and both coaches performed very poorly in their first three years. We only know how one of the two performed from that point forward (starting with a 3-10 OOC & 12-6 PL record in Year 4). Where would you put the odds for Nelson to equal or surpass Langel's Year 4 D1 OOC win total of 2 (vs #301 Campbell & #322 Binghamton)? Okay, so you’re trying to buy more time for Coach Nelson. I get it. With your foundation of the specious comparison of Nelson to Langel you’re now going to say that if HC wins more OOC games this year than Langel’s team did in his fourth year then our program is still headed for success. The day of reckoning is coming this year. I pray that, against all odds, HC has a banner season and you are proved correct. Sadly, I’d have to bet against that Maybe quit trying to bend every word I write? Where did i say I'm trying to "buy more time" for HCBN? I (along with the other rational posters) have always said that it was going to take at least 4 years to fully turn this program around from the total dumpster fire that HCBN inherited. It is now Year 4 and time to show real, meaningful progress. I have been consistent about this all along. The haters on the other side of the aisle have been trying to bury the guy basically since Day 1.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 16, 2022 14:24:39 GMT -5
It’s getting tiresome but we’ll keep trying to help.
You didn’t say you were trying to buy time but it is obvious that that is what you are trying to do. B
The “haters” narrative got old a long time ago but you persist with it. Okay. As far as posters “hating “ Coach Nelson from “Day One” I do not recall that as being the case. I think we were all hoping he’d be a big success in moving the program forward.
I love the “rational posters” comment, more comedy gold!
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 16, 2022 14:41:01 GMT -5
The “haters” narrative got old a long time ago but you persist with it. Those who questioned the hire from the outset and didn't think Nelson would be the best fit for the job given his background (who have been proven right through 82 games, mind you) are classified as haters by BBC.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 16, 2022 15:03:15 GMT -5
Meanwhile, I'm having a blast reading the Syracuse message board.
Thank you Colgate!
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Post by Tom on Nov 16, 2022 15:42:27 GMT -5
I love the “rational posters” comment, more comedy gold! Based on the time and energy most of us spend rooting for and discussing this program, I'm not sure that the label "rational" applies to any of us
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Post by Crosser on Nov 16, 2022 16:05:12 GMT -5
Meanwhile, I'm having a blast reading the Syracuse message board. Thank you Colgate! Did they happen to mention how Colgate deprived Boeheim from getting his 1,000th win?
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Post by hchoops on Nov 16, 2022 18:36:17 GMT -5
Looks as if Colgate does not miss Nelly Cummings who is starting for Pitt, currently on ESPNU vs Michigan.
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Post by bison137 on Nov 16, 2022 18:39:54 GMT -5
Their first 3 seasons’ winning percentages and PL finishes: Langel- 33%. 7th of 8, 5th of 8, 7th of 10 Nelson -22% 10th of 10, 8th of 10, tied for 7th of 10 Langel has obviously improved that, but I think that is a true equivalency PL Winning % through first three years: Langel: .282 Nelson: .269 In Year 4, Langel was 12-6 and finished second in the pL. 12-6 is right around my minimum expectations for what we need to see from HCBN this year. Those PL winning pacts are totally apples to oranges. The PL opponents that Langel faced his first three years were MUCH better than the PL teams that Nelson has faced. The average PL national ranking in that era was 20th, despite Navy being dismal During the past three years, the PL has ranked 25th. During those three years, Langel went up against Bucknell’s Mike Muscala teams that also included POY Cam Ayers and three other All-PL players; plus the CJ McCollum Lehigh teams that had a number of other good players. When those two stars graduated, a loaded Boston U team entered, featuring Maurice Watson and two other very good players. Also American was very strong that year, as was HC (Dudzinski, Miller). In 2014, four PL teams ranked in the top 160 in the nation. . Over the past three years, only Colgate has ranked better than #160.
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Post by hceconhist on Nov 16, 2022 20:49:18 GMT -5
PL Winning % through first three years: Langel: .282 Nelson: .269 In Year 4, Langel was 12-6 and finished second in the pL. 12-6 is right around my minimum expectations for what we need to see from HCBN this year. Those PL winning pacts are totally apples to oranges. The PL opponents that Langel faced his first three years were MUCH better than the PL teams that Nelson has faced. The average PL national ranking in that era was 20th, despite Navy being dismal During the past three years, the PL has ranked 25th. During those three years, Langel went up against Bucknell’s Mike Muscala teams that also included POY Cam Ayers and three other All-PL players; plus the CJ McCollum Lehigh teams that had a number of other good players. When those two stars graduated, a loaded Boston U team entered, featuring Maurice Watson and two other very good players. Also American was very strong that year, as was HC (Dudzinski, Miller). In 2014, four PL teams ranked in the top 160 in the nation. . Over the past three years, only Colgate has ranked better than #160. To your point, Colgate was ranked #184 by KenPom after Langel's 3rd season. Holy Cross was ranked #349 after Nelson's 3rd season.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 16, 2022 21:02:15 GMT -5
PL Winning % through first three years: Langel: .282 Nelson: .269 In Year 4, Langel was 12-6 and finished second in the pL. 12-6 is right around my minimum expectations for what we need to see from HCBN this year. Those PL winning pacts are totally apples to oranges. The PL opponents that Langel faced his first three years were MUCH better than the PL teams that Nelson has faced. The average PL national ranking in that era was 20th, despite Navy being dismal During the past three years, the PL has ranked 25th. During those three years, Langel went up against Bucknell’s Mike Muscala teams that also included POY Cam Ayers and three other All-PL players; plus the CJ McCollum Lehigh teams that had a number of other good players. When those two stars graduated, a loaded Boston U team entered, featuring Maurice Watson and two other very good players. Also American was very strong that year, as was HC (Dudzinski, Miller). In 2014, four PL teams ranked in the top 160 in the nation. . Over the past three years, only Colgate has ranked better than #160. What a wonderful history lesson! Wins against pL teams ranked better than 300 in first three years (Langel / Nelson): 1-99: 1 / 0 100-199: 2 / 3 200-299: 5 / 7 Apples and oranges my arse.
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Post by hceconhist on Nov 16, 2022 21:08:39 GMT -5
^ I am not sure what point this makes. They have roughly the same number of wins through their first three years, despite the fact that the league was much tougher from 2011-2014.
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Post by lou on Nov 16, 2022 21:31:05 GMT -5
Siena and AWP going to OT
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Post by purplehaze on Nov 16, 2022 21:55:49 GMT -5
Army came back from 7 down in the final minute of regulation and won it in OT 96-94 on the road f AWP shot 62 pct from the field - based on this Siena comparison they look to be better than HC
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Post by lou on Nov 16, 2022 22:52:31 GMT -5
Army came back from 7 down in the final minute of regulation and won it in OT 96-94 on the road f AWP shot 62 pct from the field - based on this Siena comparison they look to be better than HC Watching them, they look much better. With a couple of very good freshmen
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Post by efg72 on Nov 16, 2022 23:00:21 GMT -5
Agree
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Post by trimster on Nov 17, 2022 6:39:19 GMT -5
Future opponents Harvard and Northeastern play tonight. Looks like there no viewing options. It's on NESN and Flo Hoops. I didn’t watch but saw that Harvard beat Northeastern 70-69.
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