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Post by efg72 on Nov 29, 2022 19:55:22 GMT -5
I figured we need the following
133 for men and another 133 for women to get us at the top three in any league for all sports- happy to share the breakdown
Only variable is going for 63to 95 for football- 😱😱😱
How many additional students do we need to accept to pay for the annual scholarships?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 29, 2022 23:30:09 GMT -5
Please share your projected breakdown
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Post by purplehaze on Nov 30, 2022 9:08:40 GMT -5
Max for FBS football is 85 (not 95)
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Post by alum on Nov 30, 2022 11:26:19 GMT -5
I figured we need the following 133 for men and another 133 for women to get us at the top three in any league for all sports- happy to share the breakdown Only variable is going for 63to 95 for football- 😱😱😱 How many additional students do we need to accept to pay for the annual scholarships?I am not sure that we can actually calculate it. What if the additional students we admit have substantial financial need and don't result in a "profit." If we added 50 full athletic scholarships at $75,000 per the cost is $3,750,000. A gift of $85 million to the endowment would subsidize that. Of course, because some of the recipients of those scholarships would otherwise require financial aid, the number is actually lower than that. |
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Post by efg72 on Nov 30, 2022 11:44:19 GMT -5
Please share your projected breakdown A first draft of the breakdown- in an effort to allow us to compete in the varsity sports we choose to offer the student athletes Men Baseball 6 Basketball 13 Football 63 Golf 4 Hockey 14 Lax 11 Rowing 4 Soccer 8 S/Diving 2 Tennis 2 Track 6 Total 133 Women Basketball 15 Field Hockey 13 Golf 6 Hockey 18 Lax 13 Rowing 12 Soccer 14 Softball 14 S/Diving 8 Tennis 6 Volleyball 14 Total 133 |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 30, 2022 12:57:29 GMT -5
Great starting point. I’m wondering about women’s Track & Field and X Country
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Post by efg72 on Nov 30, 2022 13:20:02 GMT -5
Sorry I had them in but must have deleted the number before plugging in the first set of estimates -- adjusted to have them included
Women
Basketball 14
Field Hockey 13
Golf 6
Hockey 16
Lax 13
Rowing 12
Soccer 14
Softball 14
S/Diving 6
Tennis 5
Track and Field incl X-Ctry 10
Volleyball 10
Total 133
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coacht
Climbing Mt. St. James
A father of...that's gotta count for something!
Posts: 77 
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Post by coacht on Dec 2, 2022 15:05:29 GMT -5
Not a huge impact, but Softball is limited to 12 scholarships at the D1 level.
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Post by lafalum on Jan 3, 2023 18:24:54 GMT -5
Please share your projected breakdown A first draft of the breakdown- in an effort to allow us to compete in the varsity sports we choose to offer the student athletes Men Baseball 6 Basketball 13 Football 63 Golf 4 Hockey 14 Lax 11 Rowing 4 Soccer 8 S/Diving 2 Tennis 2 Track 6 Total 133 Women Basketball 15 Field Hockey 13 Golf 6 Hockey 18 Lax 13 Rowing 12 Soccer 14 Softball 14 S/Diving 8 Tennis 6 Volleyball 14 Total 133 |
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Post by lafalum on Jan 3, 2023 18:27:26 GMT -5
I believe division one field hockey only allows 12 equivalencies. ( that 12 can be split among any number of players)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 5, 2023 6:04:46 GMT -5
Women's ice hockey is capped at 18 scollies. HC is funding 18 scollies. It is one of five sports that HC funds to NCAA scollie caps (football to the PL cap of 60, unless that PL cap has been relaxed because of the COVID fifth years). scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits |
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 5, 2023 9:59:33 GMT -5
I'm as big a fan as anyone but this thread is in 'lala land' - there is no way scholarships are being increased to the levels suggested and imo, they shouldn't - maybe some marginal tweaks to help some of the horrible programs but otherwise I'm in favor of hiring better coaches (when the opportunity presents itself) and increasing recruiting budgets
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Post by efg72 on Jan 5, 2023 10:30:44 GMT -5
difficult to recruit coaches and players without adequate resources
The school needs to fund those it wants as a D 1 varsity sport and move the rest to D3 or club
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Post by timholycross on Jan 5, 2023 10:44:09 GMT -5
difficult to recruit coaches and players without adequate resources The school needs to fund those it wants as a D 1 varsity sport and move the rest to D3 or club Not possible unless everything goes to D3. |
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 5, 2023 11:04:18 GMT -5
HC is not going to D3. Why do some insist on posting that "option" so often when it is totally unreal?
Does the fact that NCAA does not allow D1 programs to drop selected teams to D3 actually mean anything to those who keep calling for it to happen? Or, does the NCAA now allow this for some reason?
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Post by efg72 on Jan 5, 2023 16:52:29 GMT -5
HC is not going to D3. Why do some insist on posting that "option" so often when it is totally unreal? Does the fact that NCAA does not allow D1 programs to drop selected teams to D3 actually mean anything to those who keep calling for it to happen? Or, does the NCAA now allow this for some reason? My point is they need to figure out how many sports the school wants to fund as official varsity sports. I that 10, 14, 20, 27 -- I don't know the answer, but if you aren't going to fully scholarship the sport, I would raise the question if we should move those sports to a different conference that happens to be D3, or offer those sports as a club sport |
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 5, 2023 17:19:01 GMT -5
1) There are no PL schools that fully fund non-revenue sports - that’s where we are
2) at this time HC is effectively putting D.3 talent on the playing fields of many minor/Olympic sports
3) it is irresponsible to spend all that $ on minor sports schollies - ROI would not be there
4) the Luth and the Jo should be promoted to attract legit talent to improve our minor sports
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coacht
Climbing Mt. St. James
A father of...that's gotta count for something!
Posts: 77
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Post by coacht on Jan 5, 2023 17:38:43 GMT -5
To be a D1 school, you are required to field 14 varsity teams. If ROI is a criteria, it will be difficult to find 14 sports that get there. Football, M/W Basketball and maybe M/W Hockey (?). If Baseball and Softball can win the PL and make it to a Regional, you gain ESPN exposure that would make it worth it. That's seven, and I had to stretch to get that many. Facilities are important in attracting talent, but two additional benefits HC has are a very solid academic experience and we're Jesuit. Getting a job or into a top grad school is easier coming from HC than almost anywhere else. Push the academics and fund all teams to a minimum of 50% of the NCAA/PL cap and you can hold your coaches accountable to more than an PL Honor Role/academic advancement rate metric.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 5, 2023 18:43:50 GMT -5
The scholarship goal for the 'Olympic sports' as enunciated by ADKH is to fund scollies to the average number of scollies funded by those PL schools competing in a sport; USMA and USNA are not included in the calculation.
By sport, sports ranked by PL average spending. Football, hoops, ice hockey, men's rowing excluded.
Average expenses for Patriot League (PL) schools, excluding HC
(Thousands of dollars)
Increase in HC spending $ needed simply to reach the PL League average
(Thousands of dollars)
Men’s Lacrosse 1265 / 635
Women’s Soccer 1170 / 349
Women’s Lacrosse 1103 / 280
Softball 975 / 360
Field Hockey 964 / 120
Volleyball 887 / 250
Men’s Soccer 872 / 396
Women’s Track 772 / 172
Women’s Rowing 653 / 145
Baseball 608 / 270
Women’s Swimming 556 / 340
Men’s Track 542 / 58
Men’s Swimming 302 / 185
Women’s Golf 245 / 191
Women’s Tennis 240 / 185
Men’s Golf 171 / 106
Men’s Tennis 98 / 49
Approximately $4.1 million in additional spending to bring HC's Olympic sports up to the PL average.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 5, 2023 18:46:42 GMT -5
That is why in our little world of athletic excellence, being the AD, preparing a strategic plan, and delivering is, at best tough.
Find the teams we want to support and move the rest to the club level. That will offend many, including a few in the Administration, but it makes no sense to say we are competing when we are not. In a number of sports, we currently offer. we are playing a very weak schedule
Follow the money and the interest, and we will offer great success, or be ready to accept something less
We blame coaches for the nonmajor sports for results, and we have both of their hands tied behind their backs, and most don't care. We could be well above others if we invested our funds the right way
Time for all alums to post up or stop complaining
that is the message I get every Sunday during our sermon from Father Scalia, which has attracted three members of SCOTUS for Sunday mass.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 5, 2023 19:05:46 GMT -5
It is not merely a matter of supporting, --- at the FCS level, its pretty axiomatic that the more $ you spend on a sport, the more money you lose on that sport. That also goes for the majority of FBS. Generated revenue streams are pretty much capped, because of stadium/arena size and lack of media rights and bowl games.
The 'problem' for HC is that the public universities typically spend less on a sport than do private institutions, as the cost of attendance (on which scollie money is based) is much less. IIRC, cost of attendance at SDSU is around $17-18,000. so out-of-pocket expense for a football player on a half scollie at SDSU is about 1/4 or less ($9,000) than the out-of-pocket expense for a football player on a half scollie at HC ($40,000).
^^^ And which is why HC would likely have trouble competing in a conference where public universities predominate.
Boston College probably loses as much money on its sports as Holy Cross does, even with BC's revenue from the conference and media rights.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 5, 2023 19:08:55 GMT -5
A few sports are very easy to understand. Golf is one: if you have no scholarships and are recruiting guys who have 6 handicaps you will not compete against schools with scholarships who recruit scratch golfers. Then there’s track- you have no scholarships and you recruit a guy who can run a 4:25 mile and your competitor offers a half schollie to a guy who ran a 4:08 mile in the state championship in NJ, I don’t think great coaching will overcome this. Those sports are easy to understand as there are clear objective measures. Don’t overthink this with discussion of some golf courses bring tougher than others. Same goes for swimming : measurable time are there for all to review. More money for better coaches, more recruiting trips, and partial or full scholarships will make all the difference in the world.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 5, 2023 19:17:11 GMT -5
It is not merely a matter of supporting, --- at the FCS level, its pretty axiomatic that the more $ you spend on a sport, the more money you lose on that sport. That also goes for the majority of FBS. Generated revenue streams are pretty much capped, because of stadium/arena size and lack of media rights and bowl games. The 'problem' for HC is that the public universities typically spend less on a sport than do private institutions, as the cost of attendance (on which scollie money is based) is much less. IIRC, cost of attendance at SDSU is around $17-18,000. so out-of-pocket expense for a football player on a half scollie at SDSU is about 1/4 or less ($9,000) than the out-of-pocket expense for a football player on a half scollie at HC ($40,000). ^^^ And which is why HC would likely have trouble competing in a conference where public universities predominate. Boston College probably loses as much money on its sports as Holy Cross does, even with BC's revenue from the conference and media rights. If the dollars come from us the school doesn't lose a penny If we want to win or as Scalia indirectly suggests give until it hurts or don't complain at the heavenly gates |
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 6, 2023 10:40:42 GMT -5
1) There are no PL schools that fully fund non-revenue sports - that’s where we are 2) at this time HC is effectively putting D.3 talent on the playing fields of many minor/Olympic sports 3) it is irresponsible to spend all that $ on minor sports schollies - ROI would not be there 4) the Luth and the Jo should be promoted to attract legit talent to improve our minor sports BU funds more of their Olympic Programs than the rest of the conference. Loyola too. Of course, Army and Navy both have their entire rosters on full scholarships in all sports but that is different. |
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coacht
Climbing Mt. St. James
A father of...that's gotta count for something!
Posts: 77
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Post by coacht on Jan 6, 2023 14:23:54 GMT -5
BU's spending may still be influenced by what they had to do to be competitive in the ACC 10 years ago.
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