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Post by Tom on Jan 26, 2023 17:06:19 GMT -5
Not everyone has been a stellar success, but I would not label Gates, Dorsey, and Octave as ineffective use of transfer portal. When you're struggling to be a top 350 program, it's easy to pile on, but I do like to keep our criticism fair. And hey, to date we have retained four out of five people who transferred in. Considering the state of things around here, the inward transfer portal is one of our relative strengths Of course, your unwritten corollary is the outward transfer portal I was focusing on the comment that Coach Nelson uses the transfer portal ineffectively. I assume a coach using the transfer portal refers to finding new players. I said it because I don't want to be piling on. Towards the corollary, I am painfully aware that 5 of the 12 players Coach Nelson has brought in through traditional channels have quit the program. I think losing 42 percent of recruits is a reasonable indictment of the coaching staff and too high a percentage to chalk it up as the "new normal" for the way the rules are today. Furthermore, that number can potentially go up, but it can't go down until someone else is signed through traditional channels |
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Post by bigfan on Jan 26, 2023 18:11:01 GMT -5
The Patriot League is much weaker. The top recruits see this and they are not coming to this league. Just look at Bucknell who has really gone downhill the last couple of years.
I don't think that Colgate is as strong as they were for the last number of years. It's the league and not the coaches.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 26, 2023 18:17:29 GMT -5
The league is defined by the players you can recruit-the jimmy’s and Joe’s- and the coaches ability to develop the talent
If we get back to recruiting fundamentally sound athletes that want and know Holy Cross we can return to the Willard days with the right coach. If we succeed with that coach, we can grow and give a rebirth to the tradition of Holy Cross and a bright future.
Not easy, but not hard for hoops.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 26, 2023 19:01:35 GMT -5
The Patriot League is much weaker. The top recruits see this and they are not coming to this league. Just look at Bucknell who has really gone downhill the last couple of years. I don't think that Colgate is as strong as they were for the last number of years. It's the league and not the coaches.j Bucknell‘s decline has absolutely nothing to do with the league. It is solely due to the incompetence of Nathan Davis. A good coach (or good assistants) has no trouble at all recruiting to the PAtriot League. Look at Bucknell‘s 15 years of excellence under Flannery and Paulsen once they got scholarships. And recently, Langell has had no problem getting quality players. |
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 27, 2023 8:52:41 GMT -5
I wonder why UMass doesn't draw 8,000 fans a game, if it is all about conference affiliation?
I've always hoped that, if HC couldn't be in the PL final, then Army and Navy would get there (can't believe it hasn't happened in the 30+ years of the league's existence). I'm guessing they would able to fill a 7-8K arena for that one. I did get to see them square off in the Hart in the mid 90's for the first round of the PL tournament. That was an intense game, maybe one of the loudest games I've experienced at the Hart (with both bands there). That was during the brief time when the PL split up the tourney between the sites of the top 2 seeds.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 27, 2023 8:59:17 GMT -5
Was that game HC-Navy or Army ?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 27, 2023 9:01:54 GMT -5
I wonder why UMass doesn't draw 8,000 fans a game, if it is all about conference affiliation? I've always hoped that, if HC couldn't be in the PL final, then Army and Navy would get there (can't believe it hasn't happened in the 30+ years of the league's existence). I'm guessing they would able to fill a 7-8K arena for that one. I did get to see them square off in the Hart in the mid 90's for the first round of the PL tournament. That was an intense game, maybe one of the loudest games I've experienced at the Hart (with both bands there). That was during the brief time when the PL split up the tourney between the sites of the top 2 seeds. Believe it or not, Army has never even APPEARED in a PL championship game in the 32 PL seasons. And they've only hosted a semi twice, the first of which was in the first year of the league's existence, the 2nd of which was against HC in 2016. Navy has won the Patriot League a couple of times early on, the last of which I believe was 2000 or 2001. But I don't know if they hosted the final or won on the road. The attendance record for a PL championship is actually Lehigh-HC in 2016 at Stabler, a little under 6K IIRC. And it wasn't a complete sellout. |
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Post by hchoops on Jan 27, 2023 9:09:13 GMT -5
I wonder why UMass doesn't draw 8,000 fans a game, if it is all about conference affiliation? I've always hoped that, if HC couldn't be in the PL final, then Army and Navy would get there (can't believe it hasn't happened in the 30+ years of the league's existence). I'm guessing they would able to fill a 7-8K arena for that one. I did get to see them square off in the Hart in the mid 90's for the first round of the PL tournament. That was an intense game, maybe one of the loudest games I've experienced at the Hart (with both bands there). That was during the brief time when the PL split up the tourney between the sites of the top 2 seeds. Believe it or not, Army has never even APPEARED in a PL championship game in the 32 PL seasons. And they've only hosted a semi twice, the first of which was in the first year of the league's existence, the 2nd of which was against HC in 2016. Navy has won the Patriot League a couple of times early on, the last of which I believe was 2000 or 2001. But I don't know if they hosted the final or won on the road. The attendance record for a PL championship is actually Lehigh-HC in 2016 at Stabler, a little under 6K IIRC. And it wasn't a complete sellout. But it was one of, if not the most, exciting hoops and even all sports contest I have witnessed in over 65 years of watching. And my team won ! This season’s Fordham win is a serious rival. |
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 27, 2023 9:09:26 GMT -5
I think I misspoke about the timing of that one Army-Navy game (I think). I think it was actually a decade later (maybe). Around the same time that Joe Knight of Lehigh went off for 40 something against Colgate (also at the Hart).
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Post by timholycross on Jan 27, 2023 9:41:49 GMT -5
I think I misspoke about the timing of that one Army-Navy game (I think). I think it was actually a decade later (maybe). Around the same time that Joe Knight of Lehigh went off for 40 something against Colgate (also at the Hart). 1995-96's tournament, first two rounds, definitely at the Hart Center. March 2 and 3, 1996. Colgate only had to play once (vs Bucknell, who beat Lafayette) as they finished first in the regular season. HC beat Lehigh and Army; after Army beat Navy. First couple years of the tournament, it was at one site (Jean Prioleau  ), then went to first two rounds at one campus site, followed by finals at higher seed. The sites were spread about the 7 schools except Colgate and Bucknell due to their small capacity. Then, in 2001, for 3 years, the infamous horse barn; then games at individual campus sites. |
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Post by DiMarz on Jan 27, 2023 9:42:12 GMT -5
I look at the PL standings and see that we played the top 3 (Colgate, American, Lehigh) pretty much even..Yes we lost those games, but except for the first Lehigh game, they were winnable..Better free throw shooting in the American and Lehigh home games, gets HC 2 wins..Colgate is by far the best team in the league, and HC hung in there with them. Free throw shooting, does one blame the coach for that? Dorsey misses his second vs American that would have iced the game, His first miss of the season I think, and a team melt down at the line vs Lehigh the other night. There is nothing the coach can do to make the ball go in the hoop..I've been that coach and had those teams...
So I believe this team (and players) have gotten better as this season has progressed. If they can stay healthy, I think they can be a factor in the PL Tourney..I for one,think Nelson should be back next season. He has had some extraordinary conditions to start his career at HC..The Covid seasons really disrupted any kind of regularity in the program..Plus the advent of the transfer portal has played havoc with so many programs...It is uncharted waters, and I think HC is being used by it. Players are looking to play up a level or 2, Joe Pridgen said he didn't plan on staying 4 years, and I'd bet others who left had the same resolve in the back of their minds..Wilbar left because he wanted to play, and he wasn't up to the level he thought he was..The coaching staff may have felt he was a player who could develop, but he wanted to play right away..
Why does he deserve to be back, just a gut feeling he is "getting it" as a coach. He has led the team to where they are now, getting better each night and making changes to both ends of the floor. As has been said before, the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence, or something like that!
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if he is back or not...I have no control over that, so I have to say, however the mop flops I'll still be be back!
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 27, 2023 9:50:20 GMT -5
I look at the PL standings and see that we played the top 3 (Colgate, American, Lehigh) pretty much even.. Yeah, definitely don't agree with this. Lehigh won handily at Stabler and led wire-to-wire at the Hart. The game against Colgate never really felt like we had a chance in -- they kept us at an arm's length the entire game. American, sure, that was a game we totally gave away. They're also 5-4 and more in the middle-of-the-pack than a top tier team. I think you're trying to spin this, DiMarz, to make it seem like we are just a bounce or two away from leading the league. |
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 27, 2023 9:51:11 GMT -5
Nicely stated, DiMarz. I feel I am in the same boat. I, as many others have said, see the improvement of the team. I agree that HCBN appears to be "getting it" this season. Let's see what happens against the Cadets this weekend.
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Post by DiMarz on Jan 27, 2023 9:56:03 GMT -5
I wonder why UMass doesn't draw 8,000 fans a game, if it is all about conference affiliation? I remember going to UMass games when they had Marcus Camby and Coach Cal leading the team..A huge percentage of the Mullins Center was filled each night with STUDENTS..Today, in the Northeast part of the country, those fans just don't go to games anymore...I was surprised Wednesday night walking up to the Hart center to hear 2 different small groups of students talking about the game that night..One student new of the game and asked the others if they were going, "There's a game tonight?" The other group encountered a student walking down the hill who said "They are playing a school from my home state tonight!" No more buying tickets in advance for students, now the AA has to come up with an event to get them there... NAD, I remember those PL tourneys at the Hart, some of the best days there. I always loved the Army and Navy bands, they really filled the building with sound! And the best band around today is the Dayton Flyer Pep Band...They put on a show! |
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Post by hchoops on Jan 27, 2023 9:56:47 GMT -5
Bad teams find ways to lose. This coach is responsible for all the players and how they perform. His teams’ records and his inability to retain players. are the reasons he should not be back,
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Post by DiMarz on Jan 27, 2023 10:01:16 GMT -5
I look at the PL standings and see that we played the top 3 (Colgate, American, Lehigh) pretty much even.. Yeah, definitely don't agree with this. Lehigh won handily at Stabler and led wire-to-wire at the Hart. The game against Colgate never really felt like we had a chance in -- they kept us at an arm's length the entire game. American, sure, that was a game we totally gave away. They're also 5-4 and more in the middle-of-the-pack than a top tier team. I think you're trying to spin this, DiMarz, to make it seem like we are just a bounce or two away from leading the league.
Just an opinion. and we are just a bounce or two away from being in the top 2..Yes, Colgate is by far the best team in the league, and yet we hung in with them! If we had no chance every night out, than my opinion would be different, but we go into games now thinking we can win this one...At least I do! |
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Post by efg72 on Jan 27, 2023 11:56:31 GMT -5
I look at it in a slightly different way
I believe we can be competitive against all the teams, not sure they can beat the top teams unless we shoot the ball well and our opponents don’t
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Post by hchoops on Jan 27, 2023 12:00:24 GMT -5
I am not a Parcells fan, but
You are what your record says you are.
7 -15
24-77
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), then went to first two rounds at one campus site, followed by finals at higher seed. The sites were spread about the 7 schools except Colgate and Bucknell due to their small capacity.
