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Post by rf1 on Jul 4, 2023 9:23:28 GMT -5
How many of the FBS programs in the northeast have a higher ceiling than Holy Cross if Holy Cross invests in football seriously? You could argue Syracuse and UConn (Although both programs have been consistently bad), but who else? Do Temple, Buffalo, Army, BC, and UMass have higher ceiling than Holy Cross? I'm not sure they do. In a hypothetical conference with the aforementioned teams, I don't see why Holy Cross couldn't compete for conference titles if they continue to build this thing right.
Other than Army, all the other schools above are multiple times the size of Holy Cross for undergraduates and that is not even counting the grad school enrollments they have which would make the gap even more.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 4, 2023 10:33:31 GMT -5
How many of the FBS programs in the northeast have a higher ceiling than Holy Cross if Holy Cross invests in football seriously? You could argue Syracuse and UConn (Although both programs have been consistently bad), but who else? Do Temple, Buffalo, Army, BC, and UMass have higher ceiling than Holy Cross? I'm not sure they do. In a hypothetical conference with the aforementioned teams, I don't see why Holy Cross couldn't compete for conference titles if they continue to build this thing right.
Other than Army, all the other schools above are multiple times the size of Holy Cross for undergraduates and that is not even counting the grad school enrollments they have which would make the gap even more.
Where Holy Cross can afford to offer the maximum number of scholarships allowed, FB, M&W BB & Hockey, it can come down to the quality of the head coach building the program. In the un/underfunded sports, HC has an uphill climb for sure and the Patriot League is some sort of a refuge from larger Universities - but not completely with huge BU and well funded Army and Navy in the conference.
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 230
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Post by hc69 on Jul 4, 2023 14:10:59 GMT -5
Write the check and we continue to grow $5million is pocket change to make the transition One good season, the right conference and a bowl appearance and our P&L is strong Conference for allsports BC UMess UConn Colgate Fordham Syracuse Holy Cross Villanova William and Mary Richmond Dream on, little Broomstick Cowboy Dream on, while you can Of big green frogs and puppy dogs And castles in the sand For all too soon, you'll awaken Your toys will all be gone Your broomstick horse will ride away To find another home . . .
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 4, 2023 15:15:14 GMT -5
Write the check and we continue to grow $5million is pocket change to make the transition One good season, the right conference and a bowl appearance and our P&L is strong Conference for allsports BC UMess UConn Colgate Fordham Syracuse Holy Cross Villanova William and Mary Richmond Dream on, little Broomstick Cowboy Dream on, while you can Of big green frogs and puppy dogs And castles in the sand For all too soon, you'll awaken Your toys will all be gone Your broomstick horse will ride away To find another home . . . Is he a dreamer or a prophet?
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 230
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Post by hc69 on Jul 4, 2023 17:30:03 GMT -5
You opened the door, allow me to walk through it. No elite small college can compete at the FBS level. There are four FBS schools with fewer than 5,000 students, the three service academies and Tulsa. Tulsa is hardly an elite school. They accept 60 percent of their applicants. And they're hardly an American Conference football power. There is a handful more with enrollments of less than 10,000. If we went FBS, we'd have to add 22 full rides for football. But we'd also have to add 22 for women. How do we justify increasing our athletics budget for scholarships alone by $3,000,000? Not to mention the $5,000,000 entry fee and the other costs of upgrading our program. Look at the suggested conference schools. Our other sports would get embarrassed. For example, our WBB would be playing UConn, Villanova, and Syracuse six times a year. They'd lose those six games by 250. That's just plain nuts.
We're where we belong. Let's not forget that not that long ago our FB was bad. Be careful what you wish for. What goes around comes around. The day we decide to go FBS is the day I stop contributing half of my annual donation to athletics and put all of it into academics.
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Post by efg72 on Jul 4, 2023 17:59:19 GMT -5
This is about the future and building a program that improves and delivers results. You learn how to win and all options are possible. If we get blown out in both FBS pay games we might agree. If Both are close or we win one or both, all things remain possible.
Size of the student body is important but another 20-30 scholarships and conference affiliation levels the playing field.
Let's talk in March
God Bless America🇺🇸🇺🇸✝️✝️ and Holy Cross Athletics
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 4, 2023 18:01:48 GMT -5
You opened the door, allow me to walk through it. No elite small college can compete at the FBS level. There are four FBS schools with fewer than 5,000 students, the three service academies and Tulsa. Tulsa is hardly an elite school. They accept 60 percent of their applicants. And they're hardly an American Conference football power. There is a handful more with enrollments of less than 10,000. If we went FBS, we'd have to add 22 full rides for football. But we'd also have to add 22 for women. How do we justify increasing our athletics budget for scholarships alone by $3,000,000? Not to mention the $5,000,000 entry fee and the other costs of upgrading our program. Look at the suggested conference schools. Our other sports would get embarrassed. For example, our WBB would be playing UConn, Villanova, and Syracuse six times a year. They'd lose those six games by 250. That's just plain nuts. We're where we belong. Let's not forget that not that long ago our FB was bad. Be careful what you wish for. What goes around comes around. The day we decide to go FBS is the day I stop contributing half of my annual donation to athletics and put all of it into academics. Outside of the Chesney run lately, Holy Cross has ONE NCAA football appearance in the last 39 years.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 4, 2023 18:14:36 GMT -5
Would FBS wins be as exciting and satisfying if we were in FBS or would we need to beat Alabama from a perch in low FBS to feel the same high...so to speak?🙂
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Post by efg72 on Jul 4, 2023 19:25:37 GMT -5
I never knew excellence accepted a lowest possible option. But if true it should be a Patriot League title, which would be heartbreaking. Next level is an FCS title, and if we want more go for bowl victories
If we do it the Holy Cross way we will accomplish things few believe possible without ever compromising the academic integrity or values of our great Jesuit institution. Those who disagree are allowed to have a voice, but striving to be less than the best of the best in academics, athletics, or spiritually should not be a consideration imho
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 4, 2023 22:17:59 GMT -5
I never knew excellence accepted a lowest possible option. But if true it should be a Patriot League title, which would be heartbreaking. Next level is an FCS title, and if we want more go for bowl victories If we do it the Holy Cross way we will accomplish things few believe possible without ever compromising the academic integrity or values of our great Jesuit institution. Those who disagree are allowed to have a voice, but striving to be less than the best of the best in academics, athletics, or spiritually should not be a consideration imho Inspirational. But is it OK for me to feel if you are not winning a bowl game on New Years Day or beyond then winning an FCS national championship is a prouder accomplishment? I don't think winning the Midas Muffler Bowl is as rewarding, myself. I could be an outlier.
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necfbfan
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 78
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Post by necfbfan on Jul 5, 2023 7:14:00 GMT -5
You opened the door, allow me to walk through it. No elite small college can compete at the FBS level. There are four FBS schools with fewer than 5,000 students, the three service academies and Tulsa. Tulsa is hardly an elite school. They accept 60 percent of their applicants. And they're hardly an American Conference football power. There is a handful more with enrollments of less than 10,000. If we went FBS, we'd have to add 22 full rides for football. But we'd also have to add 22 for women. How do we justify increasing our athletics budget for scholarships alone by $3,000,000? Not to mention the $5,000,000 entry fee and the other costs of upgrading our program. Look at the suggested conference schools. Our other sports would get embarrassed. For example, our WBB would be playing UConn, Villanova, and Syracuse six times a year. They'd lose those six games by 250. That's just plain nuts. We're where we belong. Let's not forget that not that long ago our FB was bad. Be careful what you wish for. What goes around comes around. The day we decide to go FBS is the day I stop contributing half of my annual donation to athletics and put all of it into academics. You make some really good points that are hard to argue with. For the sake of discussion, would your stance change at all if Holy Cross was admitted as a football only member?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jul 5, 2023 7:34:46 GMT -5
You opened the door, allow me to walk through it. No elite small college can compete at the FBS level. There are four FBS schools with fewer than 5,000 students, the three service academies and Tulsa. Tulsa is hardly an elite school. They accept 60 percent of their applicants. And they're hardly an American Conference football power. There is a handful more with enrollments of less than 10,000. If we went FBS, we'd have to add 22 full rides for football. But we'd also have to add 22 for women. How do we justify increasing our athletics budget for scholarships alone by $3,000,000? Not to mention the $5,000,000 entry fee and the other costs of upgrading our program. Look at the suggested conference schools. Our other sports would get embarrassed. For example, our WBB would be playing UConn, Villanova, and Syracuse six times a year. They'd lose those six games by 250. That's just plain nuts. We're where we belong. Let's not forget that not that long ago our FB was bad. Be careful what you wish for. What goes around comes around. The day we decide to go FBS is the day I stop contributing half of my annual donation to athletics and put all of it into academics. Outside of the Chesney run lately, Holy Cross has ONE NCAA football appearance in the last 39 years. I’m assuming you know that HC and its PL / Colonial comrades did not participate in the playoffs from the mid 1980s to 1996. HC would have had participated in the playoffs at least six times during this stretch, won a bunch of games, and likely have an NCAA Championship or two. Context is important. No one would argue that there have been lean stretches (1993 - 2004, 2012-17).
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Post by efg72 on Jul 5, 2023 7:42:48 GMT -5
I never knew excellence accepted a lowest possible option. But if true it should be a Patriot League title, which would be heartbreaking. Next level is an FCS title, and if we want more go for bowl victories If we do it the Holy Cross way we will accomplish things few believe possible without ever compromising the academic integrity or values of our great Jesuit institution. Those who disagree are allowed to have a voice, but striving to be less than the best of the best in academics, athletics, or spiritually should not be a consideration imho Inspirational. But is it OK for me to feel if you are not winning a bowl game on New Years Day or beyond then winning an FCS national championship is a prouder accomplishment? I don't think winning the Midas Muffler Bowl is as rewarding, myself. I could be an outlier. I agree with you, and think FCS titles should be the goal---but just tossing possibilities out there that might be part of any future NCAA realignment and what HC might consider.
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Post by timholycross on Jul 5, 2023 7:51:48 GMT -5
Under the present alignment of D1 college athletics, Holy Cross' athletic program is where it ought to be.
If that alignment changes, who knows what the possibilities (in either direction) are.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jul 5, 2023 7:55:21 GMT -5
FBS would be a colossal mistake on many levels. Fortunately, it’s not something that will ever be considered. We are playing at the perfect level for Holy Cross in 2023 and the foreseeable future.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 5, 2023 8:00:43 GMT -5
FBS would be a colossal mistake on many levels. Fortunately, it’s not something that will ever be considered. We are playing at the perfect level for Holy Cross in 2023 and the foreseeable future. It is July, the month when mental onanism is sometimes celebrated on Crossports.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2023 8:15:01 GMT -5
FBS would be a colossal mistake on many levels. Fortunately, it’s not something that will ever be considered. We are playing at the perfect level for Holy Cross in 2023 and the foreseeable future. It is July, the month when mental onanism is sometimes celebrated on Crossports. Just googled that word. Wish I hadn't.😙🙂
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Post by JRGNYR on Jul 5, 2023 8:25:07 GMT -5
FBS is out of the question.
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Post by trimster on Jul 5, 2023 8:25:15 GMT -5
FBS would be a colossal mistake on many levels. Fortunately, it’s not something that will ever be considered. We are playing at the perfect level for Holy Cross in 2023 and the foreseeable future. I have never been a fan at least athletically of the PL, but when I survey the landscape of college athletics today I think HC is in an appropriate league.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2023 8:36:13 GMT -5
You opened the door, allow me to walk through it. No elite small college can compete at the FBS level. There are four FBS schools with fewer than 5,000 students, the three service academies and Tulsa. Tulsa is hardly an elite school. They accept 60 percent of their applicants. And they're hardly an American Conference football power. There is a handful more with enrollments of less than 10,000. If we went FBS, we'd have to add 22 full rides for football. But we'd also have to add 22 for women. How do we justify increasing our athletics budget for scholarships alone by $3,000,000? Not to mention the $5,000,000 entry fee and the other costs of upgrading our program. Look at the suggested conference schools. Our other sports would get embarrassed. For example, our WBB would be playing UConn, Villanova, and Syracuse six times a year. They'd lose those six games by 250. That's just plain nuts. We're where we belong. Let's not forget that not that long ago our FB was bad. Be careful what you wish for. What goes around comes around. The day we decide to go FBS is the day I stop contributing half of my annual donation to athletics and put all of it into academics. You make some really good points that are hard to argue with. For the sake of discussion, would your stance change at all if Holy Cross was admitted as a football only member? How would you break it to our other Patriot League founding partners?
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 5, 2023 8:38:57 GMT -5
I suspect/hope that Phreek used the word in the 3rd use of the term.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 5, 2023 11:28:52 GMT -5
I suspect/hope that Phreek used the word in the 3rd use of the term. Phreek and others in his professional circles have occasionally used the term, though not Biblically, to describe and dismiss extreme flights of fantasy, not grounded in reality. Like King Charles deciding to throw out the Magna Carta and become a real king, when the only law that matters is the King's law, and for those who speak unkindly of Camilla, the Queen Consort, issue dreaded bills of attainder.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 5, 2023 11:41:01 GMT -5
Phreek- did you just refer to yourself in the third person? This is an intriguing new development…,
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 5, 2023 12:13:34 GMT -5
He's done it before. At least he's not using the royal "we."
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 5, 2023 12:46:31 GMT -5
He's done it before. At least he's not using the royal "we." Capital "W". Phreek, speaking in the third person, suffers still from the perfidy of Henry VIII, who sent his ancestor to the Tower, and as Phreek likes to say, said ancestor left the Tower in pieces (though he might have actually been hung at Tyburn). Said ancestor was subject to the dreaded Attainder, and as a consequence, and as the Peerage notes, Phreek's [Irish] branch of the family "faded into obscurity". No property = No wealth. In Game of Thrones, the main (English) branch of Phreek's ancestral family are portrayed by the Lannisters. gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/House_LannisterPhreek expects the English branch of the family will probably appear in House of the Dragons, the prequel to Game of Thrones.
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