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Post by hcnation on Dec 13, 2016 18:49:44 GMT -5
His Linkedin summary included the following: Nathan Pine is in his 3rd year leading athletics at the College of the Holy Cross. Since being named the director of athletics on Dec. 17, 2013, Pine has quickly turned around the athletics program and transformed the athletics culture to put Holy Cross back into the national conversation. In 2015-16 Holy Cross Athletics tallied it most successful year since the inception of the Patriot League 25 years ago.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 13, 2016 18:51:27 GMT -5
Where do these rumors eminate from ?
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Post by CHC8485 on Dec 13, 2016 18:54:11 GMT -5
"Be specific. Use examples." and you may write on both sides of your blue book!😉 Since HC87 is a teacher, that is the exact effect I was going for! Glad you picked up on it!
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Post by hc87 on Dec 13, 2016 22:42:38 GMT -5
His Linkedin summary included the following: Nathan Pine is in his 3rd year leading athletics at the College of the Holy Cross. Since being named the director of athletics on Dec. 17, 2013, Pine has quickly turned around the athletics program and transformed the athletics culture to put Holy Cross back into the national conversation. In 2015-16 Holy Cross Athletics tallied it most successful year since the inception of the Patriot League 25 years ago. Holy resume inflation Batman!
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 13, 2016 23:09:03 GMT -5
His Linkedin summary included the following: Nathan Pine is in his 3rd year leading athletics at the College of the Holy Cross. Since being named the director of athletics on Dec. 17, 2013, Pine has quickly turned around the athletics program and transformed the athletics culture to put Holy Cross back into the national conversation. In 2015-16 Holy Cross Athletics tallied it most successful year since the inception of the Patriot League 25 years ago. Pump your tires a little bit more! (And people were wondering were the "savior" terminology comes from with '87 -- perhaps language like the above straight from the horse's mouth?)
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 13, 2016 23:36:50 GMT -5
It's no big deal except to those who don't like NP.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 14, 2016 0:32:10 GMT -5
Again, I think, as others have stated, that HC athletics are basically controlled by people above NP's pay-grade...as they basically have been since Fr Brooks was President.
Pine is doing nice job cosmetically but actual athletic success is still lacking at HC imo.....if Champion's 3 rattles out at Bucknell last year, it's hard to see where we are bettah athletically in 2016 than we were in 2013.
All that said, I'm not "anti-Pine"...I guess I'm still just a doubting Thomas as to where we are headed under his leadership.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 14, 2016 6:54:30 GMT -5
If Jenkins' 3 rattles out, UNC wins the national championship.
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Post by JRGNYR on Dec 14, 2016 8:47:23 GMT -5
Largest Single Factor in AD Evaluation: Hiring/Firing Head Coaches. You can forget everything else. Nope. Nope nope nope. This is not true at all. Fundraising is the most important. Personnel decisions are obviously important, but most ADs being hired these days have fundraising and facility improvement experience. Athletic departments don't function unless they're constantly finding new ways to generate revenue. If you had to narrow it down to one single focus, it's money.
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Post by sarasota on Dec 14, 2016 8:58:46 GMT -5
I would say both money and competence are sine qua nons. Success needs both.
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Post by JRGNYR on Dec 14, 2016 9:03:26 GMT -5
Agreed but that's not what you said at first.
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Post by sarasota on Dec 14, 2016 9:13:37 GMT -5
JRGNY- You are correct. I always thought the willingness to be convinced was a virtue. So instead of taking a pot shot at me, why don't you praise me for my flexibility. (I'm not holding my breath.)
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Post by zambonihomie13 on Dec 14, 2016 14:42:59 GMT -5
Again, I think, as others have stated, that HC athletics are basically controlled by people above NP's pay-grade...as they basically have been since Fr Brooks was President. Pine is doing nice job cosmetically but actual athletic success is still lacking at HC imo.....if Champion's 3 rattles out at Bucknell last year, it's hard to see where we are bettah athletically in 2016 than we were in 2013. All that said, I'm not "anti-Pine"...I guess I'm still just a doubting Thomas as to where we are headed under his leadership. 1. We've already been over how we've improved in athletics since ADNP arrived, you just refuse to look beyond two sports (even though one of them has shown remarkable improvement under someone who ADNP hired). 2. As hoops mentioned, if Jenkins three rattles out, UNC is the national champion. Its sports, thats what happens. 3. And seriously? Are we really going to delve into what someone's LinkedIn says? It's a resume, everyone tries to make themselves look good. Are we going to kill a guy for that? And is any of if false either? Seems like we have been more successful then we ever have in the PL (not saying much, we've historically been pretty bad in most sports even though people on this board inflate our athletic history). And I don't remember ESPN issuing multiple pieces on Holy Cross during the previous administration's tenure, except for one thought-piece about how the school had abandoned athletics and the athletic department was a joke, so yes, I would say the national conversation regarding HC athletics has improved. Is ADNP a savior? Of course not. Is he a damn good AD for our situation? Yes. This whole thread is ridiculous. Are things perfect in the world of HC sports? No, particularly with football. But name a school that is happy with their current athletic department. UConn, BC, Notre Dame, etc. are all more disgruntled than we have reason to be. Hell, Harvard may be the only school the country that is happy with where their athletic department is at in the grand scheme of things, and we just swept them in football and basketball. Everyone pump the brakes, please.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 15, 2016 0:31:13 GMT -5
If Jenkins' 3 rattles out, UNC wins the national championship. Not an equal comparison. If Jenkins' 3 rattles out: UNC: Champs Villanova: 2nd place (great season) If Champion's 3 rattles out: HC: 11-20 record, loss in 1st round of PL (horrible season) Villanova put themselves in a position to win a national championship, while HC got pretty lucky. To say that we put ourselves in position to win the PL with our 9th place regular season finish would be very foolish. Instead, we went on a miracle run and are currently 4-6, yet you'd think it was 2002-2003 and we were in the midst of a 26-4 season for our 3rd straight PL title getting ready to take Final Four Marquette down to the wire.
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Post by HC1843 on Dec 15, 2016 2:11:04 GMT -5
If Jenkins' 3 rattles out, UNC wins the national championship. Not an equal comparison. If Jenkins' 3 rattles out: UNC: Champs Villanova: 2nd place (great season) If Champion's 3 rattles out: HC: 11-20 record, loss in 1st round of PL (horrible season) Villanova put themselves in a position to win a national championship, while HC got pretty lucky. To say that we put ourselves in position to win the PL with our 9th place regular season finish would be very foolish. Instead, we went on a miracle run and are currently 4-6, yet you'd think it was 2002-2003 and we were in the midst of a 26-4 season for our 3rd straight PL title getting ready to take Final Four Marquette down to the wire. It absolutely amazes me that you do not think we are remarkably better in less than two years than we have been in the past 7 years. You can put the blinders on, but ADNP's hiring of Bill Carmody appears to have been a great decision, as the team is well on track, if not ahead of pace, to return the program to its former strength. Also, the Willard comparison is a bit off. Willard did not automatically kill it, and, though he did turn things around quickly, also faced a different competitive landscape. Most PL teams at that time did not have scholarships, and things began to level off quickly once all teams (save the academies) had them. Your argument that we somehow should have been put in a position to win during Carmody's first season - notably, after 7 years of terrible coaching - is laughable. Yet, we did the improbable. Denying Carmody's influence entirely from that run seems a bit much. Cheers.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 15, 2016 4:23:04 GMT -5
Not an equal comparison. If Jenkins' 3 rattles out: UNC: Champs Villanova: 2nd place (great season) If Champion's 3 rattles out: HC: 11-20 record, loss in 1st round of PL (horrible season) Villanova put themselves in a position to win a national championship, while HC got pretty lucky. To say that we put ourselves in position to win the PL with our 9th place regular season finish would be very foolish. Instead, we went on a miracle run and are currently 4-6, yet you'd think it was 2002-2003 and we were in the midst of a 26-4 season for our 3rd straight PL title getting ready to take Final Four Marquette down to the wire. It absolutely amazes me that you do not think we are remarkably better in less than two years than we have been in the past 7 years. You can put the blinders on, but ADNP's hiring of Bill Carmody appears to have been a great decision, as the team is well on track, if not ahead of pace, to return the program to its former strength. Also, the Willard comparison is a bit off. Willard did not automatically kill it, and, though he did turn things around quickly, also faced a different competitive landscape. Most PL teams at that time did not have scholarships, and things began to level off quickly once all teams (save the academies) had them. Your argument that we somehow should have been put in a position to win during Carmody's first season - notably, after 7 years of terrible coaching - is laughable. Yet, we did the improbable. Denying Carmody's influence entirely from that run seems a bit much. Cheers. 1) Yes, we are better now than we were under Kearney and Brown. However, what exactly does that mean? If you're using two of the worst coaches in HC history as your benchmark, you are not proving much of a point. (The same type of benchmark exists with the argument that Pine is great because he's better than Regan was.) 2) The Bucknell and American teams that RW competed against were FAR better than anyone in the PL right now. If we marched into Lewisburg or DC to play those teams with players like Charles Lee, McNaughton, Badmus, Brown, Ingram, Miles, Carr, Mercer, Stokes, etc. last March, we would have lost by 20+. And Pat Flannery and Jeff Jones could coach circles around this year's front runner, Dr Coach Reed. 3) My argument is not that Carmody should have completely turned around the program in less than a year (that would be insane), but rather that I do not believe that we are as "back" as people seem to believe based primarily on a 10-day stretch last March.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 15, 2016 6:36:46 GMT -5
Just as no one has actually made the argument that NP is "our savior" (a bit offensive at the Christmas season as some believe there was only one), I don't think anyone is arguing that we are "back" yet and have a ways to go but there has been a welcomed change in direction to the program.
No doubt we have to beat the UNHs and Monmouths on future schedules and hopefully even the URIs and Providences every once in a while.
We will never be at the UConn levels because the deck is stacked against us.
Contending every year year and winning the PL championship often will be my measuring stick for success.
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Post by HC1843 on Dec 15, 2016 6:39:07 GMT -5
It absolutely amazes me that you do not think we are remarkably better in less than two years than we have been in the past 7 years. You can put the blinders on, but ADNP's hiring of Bill Carmody appears to have been a great decision, as the team is well on track, if not ahead of pace, to return the program to its former strength. Also, the Willard comparison is a bit off. Willard did not automatically kill it, and, though he did turn things around quickly, also faced a different competitive landscape. Most PL teams at that time did not have scholarships, and things began to level off quickly once all teams (save the academies) had them. Your argument that we somehow should have been put in a position to win during Carmody's first season - notably, after 7 years of terrible coaching - is laughable. Yet, we did the improbable. Denying Carmody's influence entirely from that run seems a bit much. Cheers. 1) Yes, we are better now than we were under Kearney and Brown. However, what exactly does that mean? If you're using two of the worst coaches in HC history as your benchmark, you are not proving much of a point. Similarly, using a season and a half to judge Carmody is error. What you need to do is look at where he has brought this team so quickly and with only two of "his" classes. And, you have to benchmark given his short tenure against those guys...you cannot compare to the best of Willard's teams because then Carmody needs all his guys and time to implement his system. And, like it or not, and no matter how improbable, he brought our bad news bears team to the promised land in year one against much better teams....sure we hit a streak in March, but isn't that what all coaches and fans want? (The same type of benchmark exists with the argument that Pine is great because he's better than Regan was.) Who do we compare him to then? Make sure it makes sense. 2) The Bucknell and American teams that RW competed against were FAR better than anyone in the PL right now. If we marched into Lewisburg or DC to play those teams with players like Charles Lee, McNaughton, Badmus, Brown, Ingram, Miles, Carr, Mercer, Stokes, etc. last March, we would have lost by 20+. And Pat Flannery and Jeff Jones could coach circles around this year's front runner, Dr Coach Reed. Again, you cannot fault Carmody for playing with the guys he has and against the competition he has. Sure those teams were great, but we are not playing those teams. You have a limited same size for comparison purposes as it applies to Carmody. 3) My argument is not that Carmody should have completely turned around the program in less than a year (that would be insane), but rather that I do not believe that we are as "back" as people seem to believe based primarily on a 10-day stretch last March. I do not think anyone has suggested the word be used in that sense. That said, just enjoy the progress being made. Otherwise, the ad nauseum diatribe looks nothing other than unrealistic comparisons....because they are. Cheers.
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Post by ncaam on Dec 15, 2016 6:59:53 GMT -5
Few expect immediate success. What troubles me is this year's recruiting class when compared to the guns of the league, Bucknell, Lehigh and BU. Are we slipping to second tier status? I hope not.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 15, 2016 7:44:59 GMT -5
We had slipped to second tier status in the post RW years when winning PL Tournament games became a rare occurrence. Thankfully we stemmed that tide last March.
You are sweet to worry about recruiting, but hang in there old sport help is on the way in the form of the class of 2021.
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Post by JRGNYR on Dec 15, 2016 8:20:36 GMT -5
JRGNY- You are correct. I always thought the willingness to be convinced was a virtue. So instead of taking a pot shot at me, why don't you praise me for my flexibility. (I'm not holding my breath.) I don't make it a habit of doling out compliments to people who ask for one. Sorry. And I think it's very rich that you're complaining about someone taking a potshot at you when you've done plenty of that. So let's tone that down right now. And I wasn't taking a potshot at you to begin with; I was merely pointing out that within two posts you changed your perspective. Then, at the end, you took a potshot at me, so thanks for the example of hypocrisy.
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Post by JRGNYR on Dec 15, 2016 8:45:03 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 15, 2016 9:51:12 GMT -5
We had slipped to second tier status in the post RW years when winning PL Tournament games became a rare occurrence. Thankfully we stemmed that tide last March. You are sweet to worry about recruiting, but hang in there old sport help is on the way in the form of the class of 2021. Happy to hear the next class is great. But out of curiosity, what exactly separates them from the current freshmen class that consists of two guys who can't get on the floor and a third that has disappeared? If I'm not mistaken, the "recruiting profiles" of those eight players (freshmen + next year) are pretty interchangeable.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 15, 2016 10:24:50 GMT -5
1) Yes, we are better now than we were under Kearney and Brown. However, what exactly does that mean? If you're using two of the worst coaches in HC history as your benchmark, you are not proving much of a point. (The same type of benchmark exists with the argument that Pine is great because he's better than Regan was.) 2) The Bucknell and American teams that RW competed against were FAR better than anyone in the PL right now. If we marched into Lewisburg or DC to play those teams with players like Charles Lee, McNaughton, Badmus, Brown, Ingram, Miles, Carr, Mercer, Stokes, etc. last March, we would have lost by 20+. And Pat Flannery and Jeff Jones could coach circles around this year's front runner, Dr Coach Reed. 3) My argument is not that Carmody should have completely turned around the program in less than a year (that would be insane), but rather that I do not believe that we are as "back" as people seem to believe based primarily on a 10-day stretch last March. Similarly, using a season and a half to judge Carmody is error. What you need to do is look at where he has brought this team so quickly and with only two of "his" classes. And, you have to benchmark given his short tenure against those guys...you cannot compare to the best of Willard's teams because then Carmody needs all his guys and time to implement his system. And, like it or not, and no matter how improbable, he brought our bad news bears team to the promised land in year one against much better teams....sure we hit a streak in March, but isn't that what all coaches and fans want? Again, you cannot fault Carmody for playing with the guys he has and against the competition he has. Sure those teams were great, but we are not playing those teams. You have a limited same size for comparison purposes as it applies to Carmody. I do not think anyone has suggested the word be used in that sense. That said, just enjoy the progress being made. Otherwise, the ad nauseum diatribe looks nothing other than unrealistic comparisons....because they are. Cheers. 1) I'm not faulting Carmody for playing the teams on his schedule, but rather responding to your comment that Willard was facing a "different competitive landscape" in the PL. The PL consistently had at least one team (other than HC) that was far stronger than anyone in the league last year, and also had two coaches who were far better than anyone we went up against in the PL tournament last year (although I think Nathan Davis has excellent potential at Bucknell, him in his first year there, GG Smith, Zack Spiker, and Dr Coach Reed is not exactly a Murderers Row). Other than Davis and Ed Dechilles and Fran O'Hanlon (who both have significant personnel flaws -- Dechilles for obvious reasons, O'Hanlon for not so obvious reasons), the coaching firepower in the PL is extremely low right now. This is not meant to say that Carmody can do anything other than beat the teams on his schedule, but rather to refute the idea that the PL is somehow more competitive now than it was when RW was at HC. The idea that we beat "much better teams" in the PLT last year is just false. 2) It certainly would not be fair to compare the best of RW's team with Carmody right now, but just for a reference point, in Year 2, RW was 22-8, beat UMASS, won the PL, nearly beat Tayshaun Prince and Kentucky.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 15, 2016 11:35:26 GMT -5
It was nice of Bill Raynor to leave Ralph Willard with Jared Curry, Brian Wilson, Ryan Serravalle, and Pat Whearty. Tim Szatko, too? It was also nice that Ralph had FULL SCHOLARSHIPS to offer prospective recruits -- I bet Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette, and Lehigh would have liked that luxury. UMass, with a 15-15 record in 2000-01, was sure a huge win! Give me a break. Your infatuation with the Willard family is weird, to be perfectly honest.
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