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Post by bfoley82 on Apr 15, 2023 20:01:47 GMT -5
As I said before but feel I have to keep saying it in different ways: Ms. Parks' accusation threw a big monkey wrench into what should have been a rather sad but simple ending to his coaching tenure at Holy Cross. Basically, HC was better off doing nothing under the guise of continuing to investigate, especially given that Parks' charges were bs, from the outset had nothing to do with inappropriate sexual conduct; and no one was in any danger if he continued to coach. Another month and he was essentially GONE anyway. Why didn't BG sue Parks? I realize she probably doesn't have any $, but if it forced a public admission of some sort that exonerated him of charges of mistreatment of staff, etc he may have been better off in trying to land somewhere else after HC, no? Why would you think that she has no money? What makes you make that assumption? That is a very loaded statement you just made there.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Apr 15, 2023 20:38:36 GMT -5
BG’ s mistake was not looking in the mirror and realizing he was a “dead man walking” regarding recruiting D1 level players after the Ashley Cooper situation in 2013. He was protected then based on his record, and was given another chance to continue to be successful. At that point he was five plus years removed from his last PL Championship and a trip to the NCAA’s. When you have a coach that makes national headlines for a toxic environment…..parents and high school coaches, particularly ones that you do not have a strong prior relationship, have concerns about sending their child to your program. Also of note, a member of his coaching tree, had a similar incident of a toxic environment at a school that became a Patriot League member. The Parks situation was the final straw along with a decade of less than stellar performance by the team, that highlighted why a change was needed. It was a shame that BG after achieving a monumental six hundred wins the season before, did not see the hand writing on the wall, in 2018, realizing that his coaching demeanor and style was no longer effective, and bowed out gracefully. 602 victories in 32 seasons would have been considered a very successful career. He could of had a nice send off both at the Hart Center as well as at the other Patriot League schools with multiple rocking chairs and clocks to display in an office focusing on athletic fundraising and PR. www.cnn.com/2013/10/16/us/holy-cross-coach-lawsuit/index.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Greenberg
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 16, 2023 4:53:47 GMT -5
As I said before but feel I have to keep saying it in different ways: Ms. Parks' accusation threw a big monkey wrench into what should have been a rather sad but simple ending to his coaching tenure at Holy Cross. Basically, HC was better off doing nothing under the guise of continuing to investigate, especially given that Parks' charges were bs, from the outset had nothing to do with inappropriate sexual conduct; and no one was in any danger if he continued to coach. Another month and he was essentially GONE anyway. Why didn't BG sue Parks? I realize she probably doesn't have any $, but if it forced a public admission of some sort that exonerated him of charges of mistreatment of staff, etc he may have been better off in trying to land somewhere else after HC, no? BG was on a short leash after Cooper. Remember Cooper (her parents) only filed her complaint because HC appeared to do nothing with regard to an earlier complaint by another player regarding BG's behavior. (IIRC, Cooper stated in her complaint she was interviewed by HC in the course of HC investigating the first player's complaint.) With respect to the incident involving Parks, there were witnesses. HC interviewed these witnesses in the course of its investigation. It appears that the witnesses corroborated Parks version of the incident. It appears from the record, there were no witnesses who provided statements favorable to BG with respect to this incident. . IIRC, BG, in his initial complaint, asserted that HC had denied him due process by not allowing him to review and comment on the witness statements before these statements were considered by the official responsible for making a determination on Park's complaint. (He also objected to HC taking away his key to the coaches' suite in Luth and his HC-issued credit card, and HC prohibiting him from setting foot on campus after his suspension. The latter made its way into his complaint against HC.)
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Post by newfieguy74 on Apr 16, 2023 6:28:29 GMT -5
As I said before but feel I have to keep saying it in different ways: Ms. Parks' accusation threw a big monkey wrench into what should have been a rather sad but simple ending to his coaching tenure at Holy Cross. Basically, HC was better off doing nothing under the guise of continuing to investigate, especially given that Parks' charges were bs, from the outset had nothing to do with inappropriate sexual conduct; and no one was in any danger if he continued to coach. Another month and he was essentially GONE anyway. 1. Why do you say the charges were bs? 2. I've never heard anyone say or suggest that there was any inappropriate conduct by BG 3. HC, or any college, ignores allegations of misconduct at its peril
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 16, 2023 17:20:01 GMT -5
BG’ s mistake was not looking in the mirror and realizing he was a “dead man walking” regarding recruiting D1 level players after the Ashley Cooper situation in 2013. He was protected then based on his record, and was given another chance to continue to be successful. At that point he was five plus years removed from his last PL Championship and a trip to the NCAA’s. When you have a coach that makes national headlines for a toxic environment…..parents and high school coaches, particularly ones that you do not have a strong prior relationship, have concerns about sending their child to your program. Also of note, a member of his coaching tree, had a similar incident of a toxic environment at a school that became a Patriot League member. The Parks situation was the final straw along with a decade of less than stellar performance by the team, that highlighted why a change was needed. It was a shame that BG after achieving a monumental six hundred wins the season before, did not see the hand writing on the wall, in 2018, realizing that his coaching demeanor and style was no longer effective, and bowed out gracefully. 602 victories in 32 seasons would have been considered a very successful career. He could of had a nice send off both at the Hart Center as well as at the other Patriot League schools with multiple rocking chairs and clocks to display in an office focusing on athletic fundraising and PR. www.cnn.com/2013/10/16/us/holy-cross-coach-lawsuit/index.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_GreenbergThe Dee Rowe model at UConn. Already occupied by RP, Sr. at Holy Cross? HC's potential market in both fundraising and PR is smaller than UConn's.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jun 28, 2023 16:11:21 GMT -5
Stunning: the Judge hearing the case dismissed all of BG's claims with prejudice for committing fraud in the discovery process. I've practiced law for 46 years and it's hard to overstate how unusual and draconian (but perhaps appropriate) this is.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 28, 2023 16:55:59 GMT -5
We need an objective attorney to analyze this, please. I don't know how objective I am, but here's my two cents. What Gibbons has been caught doing is pretty serious. It puts him and his case in a bad light. Having said that, Courts are reluctant to dismiss a case absent the most egregious conduct. The law disfavors denying someone their day in court. Different judges would handle this differently. My guess is that the case will not be dismissed but that Gibbons will be sanctioned in some way. His lawyer's argument was pretty brazen, essentially that yes he did wrong but only because of how upset he was at being treated so badly by HC. If I were the judge that argument would annoy me greatly.Perhaps that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Can someone post any recent article about the case? My searches came up empty.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 28, 2023 17:25:56 GMT -5
Stunning: the Judge hearing the case dismissed all of BG's claims with prejudice for committing fraud in the discovery process. I've practiced law for 46 years and it's hard to overstate how unusual and draconian (but perhaps appropriate) this is. In case it hasn't been mentioned enough, commentary based on actual legal experience from all the lawyers on the board is very helpful and enjoyable. Thank You!
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 28, 2023 17:47:12 GMT -5
I don't know how objective I am, but here's my two cents. What Gibbons has been caught doing is pretty serious. It puts him and his case in a bad light. Having said that, Courts are reluctant to dismiss a case absent the most egregious conduct. The law disfavors denying someone their day in court. Different judges would handle this differently. My guess is that the case will not be dismissed but that Gibbons will be sanctioned in some way. His lawyer's argument was pretty brazen, essentially that yes he did wrong but only because of how upset he was at being treated so badly by HC. If I were the judge that argument would annoy me greatly.Perhaps that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Can someone post any recent article about the case? My searches came up empty. For Bill's sake I hope this story doesn't go viral in sports media and the voluminous sports blogosphere. Love discussing it here but hope it attracts little interest in the broader world. The next shoes to drop is how the T&G and Spectrum TV news in Worcester handle it. Who will be more sensitive to Bill, Jen Toland or Kevin Shea? Kevin might have more editorial control than Jen.
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Post by purplehaze on Jun 28, 2023 19:01:26 GMT -5
A very sad chapter in HC sports history - really a shame Bill did not accept the fact that he was falling short of expectations and just take the 600 career wins and move on to another job - very poor judgement all around
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Post by alum on Jun 28, 2023 19:58:35 GMT -5
Awful end to an awful situation.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 30, 2023 9:03:14 GMT -5
Perhaps that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Can someone post any recent article about the case? My searches came up empty. For Bill's sake I hope this story doesn't go viral in sports media and the voluminous sports blogosphere. Love discussing it here but hope it attracts little interest in the broader world. The next shoes to drop is how the T&G and Spectrum TV news in Worcester handle it. Who will be more sensitive to Bill, Jen Toland or Kevin Shea? Kevin might have more editorial control than Jen. For the time being, the ruling has gone unnoticed except here.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2023 10:52:16 GMT -5
For Bill's sake I hope this story doesn't go viral in sports media and the voluminous sports blogosphere. Love discussing it here but hope it attracts little interest in the broader world. The next shoes to drop is how the T&G and Spectrum TV news in Worcester handle it. Who will be more sensitive to Bill, Jen Toland or Kevin Shea? Kevin might have more editorial control than Jen. For the time being, the ruling has gone unnoticed except here. The incredible shrinking T&G staff is now mostly an AI supercomputer in Texas, which is no match for the eagle eyes on Crossports.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 30, 2023 11:37:38 GMT -5
Stunning: the Judge hearing the case dismissed all of BG's claims with prejudice for committing fraud in the discovery process. I've practiced law for 46 years and it's hard to overstate how unusual and draconian (but perhaps appropriate) this is. Please provide the ruling from the court.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jun 30, 2023 11:55:52 GMT -5
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Post by alum on Jun 30, 2023 13:01:28 GMT -5
CHC8485''s post doesn't open to the document for me so I copied and pasted the document here but I have decided to take it down because it would show up in Google. If you click on the links in CHC8485's post, you can do the following to get to the decision:
1. Click on "Click here" 2. This will take you to a second page. There, under Court Department click on Superior Court, then under Court Division, use the drop down menu to Worcester Superior Court. 3. Then search by name, Gibbons and William 4. It will then take you to a list of two cases. Choose the employment case which will take you to a list of pleadings, etc. 5. The decision is at the bottom.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2023 13:37:32 GMT -5
Thank You. That Judgement meets Dr. Fauci's mantra of clarity of thought, economy of expression.
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coachrt
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 93
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Post by coachrt on Jun 30, 2023 13:40:25 GMT -5
A very sad chapter in HC sports history - really a shame Bill did not accept the fact that he was falling short of expectations and just take the 600 career wins and move on to another job - very poor judgement all around It would be nice if BG could restore his reputation & get back into the game in some capacity.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2023 13:57:12 GMT -5
A very sad chapter in HC sports history - really a shame Bill did not accept the fact that he was falling short of expectations and just take the 600 career wins and move on to another job - very poor judgement all around It would be nice if BG could restore his reputation & get back into the game in some capacity. Agree and it's very possible.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 30, 2023 13:59:42 GMT -5
Just a very sad situation and totally unnecessary. I repeat myself. He was NOT fired, his contract was non-renewed. While many would equate the two, they are not the same. There was an agreement for X# of years. The contract expired. He was not rehired. At no time did I ever read that HC expressly or by implication say his non-renewal was due to inappropriate sexual activity or harassment while there might have been investigations of such conduct.
The reality is that Coach Gibbons was once a very good, if not excellent coach. However, he lost his proverbial "fast ball" and should have been let go years before. My personal guess is that Holy Cross appreciated his many years of service and consequently let his contract run its course.
While not the coach he once was, I have little doubt that he would/could have found another position fairly easily but likely at a D-2 or D-3 level. That apparently wasn't the way he wanted to go and chose instead to fight and, as indicated in the court documents, he fabricated and lied. I believe he would have lost the case on its (lack of) merits but this was the final nail in his career coffin. I'm not sure if there's any way that anyone would hire him as a coach now.
I feel badly for him that he put himself in this desperate situation. As others said, he likely could have gotten an administrative position at Holy Cross.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2023 14:36:39 GMT -5
At the HS/community college/low D-3 level they may not be as judgemental and might see the opportunity to get more basketball kmowledge and experience than their budget ordinarily could hire. As an assistant at a lower level he could offer being able to give more time than the typical part timer who has to have a day job to make coaching work.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 30, 2023 14:38:17 GMT -5
Sadly, mistakes do happen. I remember hearing about his behavior at occasional mealtimes where he got up on a chair in the dining hall and exhorted the students to come to the game and to support their team. It worked.
He was not fired, as you correctly point out and, for whatever reason he had, spread lies about what actually happened. It coud have been so much better...but most of the blame seems to fall upon him, not HC.
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Post by Tom on Jun 30, 2023 15:06:59 GMT -5
A very sad chapter in HC sports history - really a shame Bill did not accept the fact that he was falling short of expectations and just take the 600 career wins and move on to another job - very poor judgement all around It would be nice if BG could restore his reputation & get back into the game in some capacity. It's hard to say if all the stuff surrounding his final half season damaged his reputation to the point it needed to be restored. I think we might be more "in the know" than the general public, and maybe the New England basketball circles know more than we do. Nothing that happened during Coach Gibbons final half season diminished his reputation in my eyes. In terms of getting a job somewhere, the aspect of his reputation that will make it hardest to get a job is he now seems like the kind of guy who might sue his employer. Not the kind of thing employers hope for in job applicants
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 30, 2023 15:14:21 GMT -5
A very sad chapter in HC sports history - really a shame Bill did not accept the fact that he was falling short of expectations and just take the 600 career wins and move on to another job - very poor judgement all around It would be nice if BG could restore his reputation & get back into the game in some capacity. He is at least 64 years old (graduated Clark in 1981)...I don't see him getting a job again at his advanced age.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 30, 2023 15:15:43 GMT -5
At the HS/community college/low D-3 level they may not be as judgemental and might see the opportunity to get more basketball kmowledge and experience than their budget ordinarily could hire. As an assistant at a lower level he could offer being able to give more time than the typical part timer who has to have a day job to make coaching work. Salem State men's hockey is currently open and the previous coach made 104k a year. I found that very high.
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