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Post by Tom on Jun 30, 2023 15:53:00 GMT -5
It would be nice if BG could restore his reputation & get back into the game in some capacity. He is at least 64 years old (graduated Clark in 1981)...I don't see him getting a job again at his advanced age. You never know. Basically the same age HC hired Coach Carmody or Louisville hired Coach Willard
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 30, 2023 16:21:00 GMT -5
His contract was not non-renewed due to his age . . . . don't feed into one of his arguments that HC thought he was "too old."
His win/loss record and quality of recruits diminished over the years. Someone once said that all coaches will eventually get fired. He didn't, he was non-renewed. Should be the end of discussion. I wish him the best, very personable guy. Even nice guys lose their jobs sometimes when they don't produce results.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2023 16:42:06 GMT -5
Assistants at D-3, Juco and HS/Prep are sometimes part time and this is where someone who is retirement age and doesn't need a second job could be attractive to a head coach who is tired of getting what's left in the assistant after his full time job, young children, etc. That's if he wants to get back into the game. Entirely possible he doesn't want to.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jun 30, 2023 17:03:45 GMT -5
Assistants at D-3, Juco and HS/Prep are sometimes part time and this is where someone who is retirement age and doesn't need a second job could be attractive to a head coach who is tired of getting what's left in the assistant after his full time job, young children, etc. That's if he wants to get back into the game. Entirely possible he doesn't want to. I don't wish him ill, but his employment prospects may be damaged by perpetrating a pattern of fraud in a court case, including lying under oath in a deposition. These are things that go to character. It would be interesting to know whether he paid his attorneys hourly or whether they had a contingent fee arrangement. If it was hourly he may have spent a few hundred thousand dollars-- for nothing.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2023 17:12:52 GMT -5
Assistants at D-3, Juco and HS/Prep are sometimes part time and this is where someone who is retirement age and doesn't need a second job could be attractive to a head coach who is tired of getting what's left in the assistant after his full time job, young children, etc. That's if he wants to get back into the game. Entirely possible he doesn't want to. I don't wish him ill, but his employment prospects may be damaged by perpetrating a pattern of fraud in a court case, including lying under oath in a deposition. These are things that go to character. It would be interesting to know whether he paid his attorneys hourly or whether they had a contingent fee arrangement. If it was hourly he may have spent a few hundred thousand dollars-- for nothing. There was no mention of the plaintiff being responsible for the defendant's legal fees, that you read about in cases like Stormy Daniels. I assume this case doesn't qualify or the defendant would have to file a separate action or the sanctions are capped at dismissal with prejudice.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jun 30, 2023 17:32:22 GMT -5
In her memorandum of decision the Judge declined to make BG pay the defendants' atty fees based on representations by his atty as to his financial condition. In general, MA follows the so-called "American Rule", in which each party pays their own atty fees. There are exceptions, though, and this could have been one of them, but as the Judge noted having the case dismissed is penalty enough.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 30, 2023 19:33:20 GMT -5
"The defendants request, among other items, dismissal of this case as a sanction. . . . . However, based upon 1) counsel's representation of Gibbons; financial status at the time of the hearing . . . .the court declines to award any discretionary costs or fees to the defendants, as the dismissal of the case is sanction enough."
Might be just my Christian interpretation but suspect that Holy Cross is more than happy to put this ugly episode in the rearview mirror or, more cynically, getting Gibbons to pay defendant attorney fees would be like trying to get blood from a stone.
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Post by thecrossisback on Jun 30, 2023 21:09:02 GMT -5
At the HS/community college/low D-3 level they may not be as judgemental and might see the opportunity to get more basketball kmowledge and experience than their budget ordinarily could hire. As an assistant at a lower level he could offer being able to give more time than the typical part timer who has to have a day job to make coaching work. Salem State men's hockey is currently open and the previous coach made 104k a year. I found that very high. Even though he was there for 40 years that not just for coaching hockey and you know it. It lists him as Intercollegiate Coordinator and a staff assistant. It is a little misleading to say he got that much to coach a hockey team.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 30, 2023 21:26:02 GMT -5
Salem State men's hockey is currently open and the previous coach made 104k a year. I found that very high. Even though he was there for 40 years that not just for coaching hockey and you know it. It lists him as Intercollegiate Coordinator and a staff assistant. It is a little misleading to say he got that much to coach a hockey team. It is still a lot
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Post by timholycross on Jul 1, 2023 8:35:42 GMT -5
Even though he was there for 40 years that not just for coaching hockey and you know it. It lists him as Intercollegiate Coordinator and a staff assistant. It is a little misleading to say he got that much to coach a hockey team. It is still a lot If you throw in what I would perceive to be decent benefits as a state employee, it's pretty good. Better than the same amount in the private sector in most cases. In either case, not a sum that makes him affluent.
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coachrt
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 93
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Post by coachrt on Jul 1, 2023 14:41:58 GMT -5
If you throw in what I would perceive to be decent benefits as a state employee, it's pretty good. Better than the same amount in the private sector in most cases. In either case, not a sum that makes him affluent. That’s pretty good for a D3 job. Although he had to be there for 40 yrs to get that. Most D3 jobs at least Basketball wise pay around 50-70K. Although the NESCAC & other high academic schools will pay into the 90’s. In regards to BG, he could be a valuable mentor to a young new head coach. His biggest issue would be convincing someone to give him a shot. Maybe his brother would have him come help him out at Wachusetts.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 3, 2023 6:47:47 GMT -5
"The defendants request, among other items, dismissal of this case as a sanction. . . . . However, based upon 1) counsel's representation of Gibbons; financial status at the time of the hearing . . . .the court declines to award any discretionary costs or fees to the defendants, as the dismissal of the case is sanction enough." Might be just my Christian interpretation but suspect that Holy Cross is more than happy to put this ugly episode in the rearview mirror or, more cynically, getting Gibbons to pay defendant attorney fees would be like trying to get blood from a stone. While not a consideration in this judge's determination, Holy Cross' insurers ate the costs of settling Cooper. And those costs were likely not inconsiderable.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 3, 2023 7:00:21 GMT -5
Your statement and mine are not inconsistent.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 3, 2023 10:14:09 GMT -5
If HC had insurance to cover it's atty fees and the plaintiff didn't, oh my. If you take your complaint to the State or Federal Labor dept., equal opportunity commission, or some other govt. entity designed to protect employees I don't believe there is a fee. If they can't help you it might be a hint you have an uphill climb.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 3, 2023 11:23:46 GMT -5
I've been out of insurance for 10+ years so maybe I've forgotten something but don't recall ever hearing of insurance to cover a plaintiffs legal fees. Insurance is designed to protect you from something that happens to you, your family, your property, not for something that you initiate (i.e. being a plaintiff). Now, if HC was suing BG, that'd be another story.
One of the first things we learned was that when people equated insurance with gambling, it was considered the exact opposite. With insurance, you are trying to protect against a risk that exists while gambling is creating a risk that didn't previously exist (i.e. if you don't go to Vegas and hit the tables or slot machines, you don't lose any money but when you go and do those things, you've created the risk).
So, BG decided to sue HC. Think of insurance as "defense" and gambling, or being a plaintiff, as "offense."
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 3, 2023 13:18:19 GMT -5
I've been out of insurance for 10+ years so maybe I've forgotten something but don't recall ever hearing of insurance to cover a plaintiffs legal fees. Insurance is designed to protect you from something that happens to you, your family, your property, not for something that you initiate (i.e. being a plaintiff). Now, if HC was suing BG, that'd be another story. One of the first things we learned was that when people equated insurance with gambling, it was considered the exact opposite. With insurance, you are trying to protect against a risk that exists while gambling is creating a risk that didn't previously exist (i.e. if you don't go to Vegas and hit the tables or slot machines, you don't lose any money but when you go and do those things, you've created the risk). So, BG decided to sue HC. Think of insurance as "defense" and gambling, or being a plaintiff, as "offense." Precision of thought, economy of expression. You get a Fauci point (like Heinsohn used to award "Tommie Points" to individual Celtics during his decades as the Celtics TV game analyst.) I didn't think there was insurance for plaintiffs and your comment explains why.
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Post by Tom on Jul 5, 2023 8:01:38 GMT -5
Aren't most civil claims done on a contingency basis? There is a very real possibility that Coach Gibbons did not pay any legal fees
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 5, 2023 8:32:01 GMT -5
Yes. As for legal fees, the legal fees in question were not as plaintiff but whether or not the judge was going to make him reimburse HC (or their insurers) for legal defense fees which would not have been on a contingency basis.
I do wonder what he's doing with his life now. I assume that despite everything that he has and is still qualified for some retirement benefits (being he wasn't fired and worked many years at HC and/or 401K/403K to live off if he doesn't want to work. While I am sure he never got "rich" off the College (you have to be a men's basketball coach to meet that level of income), he probably made a relatively comfortable living and if he has/had a decent financial advisor, he and the family won't have to eat dog food.
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Post by purplehaze on Jul 5, 2023 8:59:08 GMT -5
Is he still forbidden from coming on campus ? Despite the ugliness of these last few years, now that the case is settled, I would hope that the school would relax this sanction.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 5, 2023 9:34:30 GMT -5
The school is in the position to be magnanimous. Unfortunately, newcomers Vince and Kit know him only as a fraudulent plaintiff, not as someone who generated headlines for HC such as "Holy Cross beats Michigan!" or "Holy Cross goes dancing again!"
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jul 5, 2023 10:07:10 GMT -5
Aren't most civil claims done on a contingency basis? There is a very real possibility that Coach Gibbons did not pay any legal fees Certain types of civil cases (e.g. personal injury, medical malpractice) are usually done on a contingent fee basis. Many other types of civil cases are not. My guess is that BG looked for someone who would take it on a contingent fee basis, but that's just a guess. His lawyers have to be very upset with him.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 5, 2023 10:18:12 GMT -5
Allowing him back on campus would be a very magnanimous gesture considering that had he not been caught in lies (perjury even?) that he'd likely be still pursuing this lawsuit.
Before I'd even consider allowing him back on campus or any reconciliation, I'd insist that he put in writing a promise to never again not only to not sue the school or its principals but to cease and desist any public or private comments that somehow the College "did him wrong."
A public apology for his actions would probably be a bridge too far but a promise to basically shut up is the lower threshold if I had a say in the matter. If he could do that, and I'm not sure that he's reached that point, I'd welcome him back with open arms and maybe even give him an administrative position in athletics if Kit would have him. Without that promise, hiring him or allowing him back on campus might send the wrong message that some out-of-court secret settlement was made to accommodate him (i.e. he "won" and HC was wrong and settled just to save money). Outside of Crossports, no one else is likely to read the court decision.
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Post by Tom on Jul 5, 2023 10:24:52 GMT -5
Is he still forbidden from coming on campus ? Despite the ugliness of these last few years, now that the case is settled, I would hope that the school would relax this sanction. Was he ever forbidden from going on campus? It was reported that he was forbidden from going into the basketball offices, but I never heard he was not allowed in areas open to the public. Even when the lawsuit was active, I would guess that if a former player got married at the chapel, no one would have had an issue. Pure speculation on my part, but I believe if he wanted to go the the women's basketball banner ceremony, he could have bought a ticket and gone just like you and me. Probably not invited to be part of the ceremony, but he could have attended.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 5, 2023 10:31:30 GMT -5
Believe it was at least semi-reliably posted here that there was a "no trespass" order against him coming on campus, not just basketball offices or other limited restrictions.
Let's see how this all plays out. Right now he's probably licking his wounds before he wants or cares to go back on campus. As every year, month and day goes by, Bill Gibbons, the winningest Crusader coach goes further and further in the rearview mirror for people on campus and likely most, if not all, students never heard of him.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jul 5, 2023 10:42:14 GMT -5
Like many here I'm grateful to BG for all he did for HC and its women's program. However, he sued the school because he didn't get a new contract and tried to win the case by cheating and lying. If there is to be a time to be magnanimous I think it's down the road, maybe very far down the road.
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