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Post by rf1 on Jun 30, 2023 8:55:45 GMT -5
Pretty much guarantees there will never be a second Clarence Thomas from Holy Cross.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 30, 2023 8:58:29 GMT -5
Thank you. Maybe it is senioritis, but I still do not understand the final paragraph in you original post. ”Well paid life time public employees taking the summer off” ? The justices don't work during the summer. They have decided all of their cases, and don't sit again until October. I think that they return to the office in September. In the interim, they can travel, teach for pay, or do nothing at all. (They are available for emergency motions, petitions, etc. but can handle those from anywhere.) Thank you.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 30, 2023 9:13:33 GMT -5
Considering the board we're on, what are the ramifications of the decision w/regard to athletics?
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 30, 2023 9:42:34 GMT -5
Ironically, I don't believe HCBU's use race based admissions. They accept most applicants so they don't have to. I do suspect this (unconstitutional) discrimination was much more common at the ‘elite’ schools. I don’t even know to what extent (or even if) HC practiced race-based admissions to favor Black and Hispanic students on account of their race. I’m sure we’re all in on the (amorphous) racial diversity program if I read President Rougeau correctly but the former is not necessarily a component of the latter. Correct me if I am wrong, up until the most recent SCOTUS decision, these were indeed " constitutional" until the Court reversed itself or, if you prefer, "reinterpreted" the prior ruling. Similar to Rowe v. Wade reversal. Until then, abortions were not unconstitutional or illegal, within certain restrictions, until it was (federally speaking, of course).
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 30, 2023 9:45:14 GMT -5
Pretty much guarantees there will never be a second Clarence Thomas from Holy Cross. It’s not too late to delete this post.
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Post by Tom on Jun 30, 2023 9:47:44 GMT -5
Considering the board we're on, what are the ramifications of the decision w/regard to athletics? I'm going to take a stab and say none Based on President Rougeau's writings on the topic, I am going to assume race sometimes plays a factor in the admissions process for the general student population at HC. In the world of sports today, athleticism trumps race, because winning trumps pretty much everything. In really big time D-I college, winning even trumps ethics.. I think no matter what role race plays in the non-athletic admissions, it is a non-factor for the athletes. The coach is looking for the best person for the team that is smart enough to get in. Not college, but Red Auerbach did not grab Bill Russell because he was black and he did not grab Larry Bird because he was white
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Post by Tom on Jun 30, 2023 10:07:04 GMT -5
Pretty much guarantees there will never be a second Clarence Thomas from Holy Cross. That kind of assumes that Justice Thomas wouldn't have gotten in without a thumb on the scale. I think it's highly probable that he wouldn't have applied to HC if Fr Brooks hadn't gone on a road trip. But, once he did apply, would he have gotten in if he was a different race? I like to think "yes, but I guess we'll never know for sure. If TPTB want a certain diversity in the student body and no longer have that little box identifying race on the application, one option would be to target recruiting to certain demographics. Maybe not as radical as a road trip, but there are options. Who knows, maybe the ruling will amp up the recruitment to the point we'll find a second Clarence Thomas and let him know HC exists and it's a great place to go. This could even make the second Clarence Thomas more likely,
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Post by mm67 on Jun 30, 2023 10:17:32 GMT -5
I do suspect this (unconstitutional) discrimination was much more common at the ‘elite’ schools. I don’t even know to what extent (or even if) HC practiced race-based admissions to favor Black and Hispanic students on account of their race. I’m sure we’re all in on the (amorphous) racial diversity program if I read President Rougeau correctly but the former is not necessarily a component of the latter. Correct me if I am wrong, up until the most recent SCOTUS decision, these were indeed " constitutional" until the Court reversed itself or, if you prefer, "reinterpreted" the prior ruling. Similar to Rowe v. Wade reversal. Until then, abortions were not unconstitutional or illegal, within certain restrictions, until it was (federally speaking, of course). It was an attempted troll to get a reaction while rubbing it in. Any response provides satisfaction. Wash, rinse & hang out to dry. Ignore & move on.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2023 10:47:55 GMT -5
Considering the board we're on, what are the ramifications of the decision w/regard to athletics? Not much but it's the student loan relief nullification, combined with the end of the Covid repayment pause that will put the squeeze on HC's finances if the public starts to get more sensitive to large loan balances and devalues colleges with high tuitions that require certain families to shoulder them. HC might have to divert more money to grants, lower tuition (shudder) or both to compensate which could possibly squeeze athletics.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 30, 2023 11:16:20 GMT -5
I do suspect this (now unconstitutional) discrimination was much more common at the ‘elite’ schools. I don’t even know to what extent (or even if) HC practiced race-based admissions to favor Black and Hispanic students on account of their race. I’m sure we’re all in on the (amorphous) racial diversity program if I read President Rougeau correctly but the former is not necessarily a component of the latter. Correct me if I am wrong, up until the most recent SCOTUS decision, these were indeed " constitutional" until the Court reversed itself or, if you prefer, "reinterpreted" the prior ruling. Similar to Rowe v. Wade reversal. Until then, abortions were not unconstitutional or illegal, within certain restrictions, until it was (federally speaking, of course). I thought the ‘now’ was understood. The US Supreme Court‘s unsurprising ruling that race-based admissions decisions are unconstitutional was definitely yesterday. (But I inserted it for clarity given your reply.)
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 30, 2023 12:24:37 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Jun 30, 2023 13:00:36 GMT -5
MSNBC is very very sad to see college admissions decisions based on race finally go away. Justice Thomas, BTW, was one of 6 votes in the 6-3 decision.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2023 13:44:31 GMT -5
National policies based on race aren't sustainable because following established demographic trends, eventually there will be no majority race.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 30, 2023 14:24:12 GMT -5
Of course as more people decide to identify as a different race (or traces) that could (and probably will) get complicated.
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Post by Tom on Jun 30, 2023 14:56:35 GMT -5
Didn't the original ruling on this have some language that it shouldn't be permanent and at some point should go away?
I told my boss that I identify as a hard worker that does not spend an inordinate amount of time on Crossports
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Post by Chu Chu on Jun 30, 2023 19:14:29 GMT -5
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Post by mm67 on Jul 1, 2023 10:57:16 GMT -5
The decision has been made. It is the law of the land. I found this article interesting not to renew a pointless political debate but to analyze where we are & where we may be headed.. NYT, July 1. Evidently Affirmative Action Programs existed at approximately 200 colleges, the most selective schools. Affirmative Action impacted about 2% of African- American students enrolled in college. These are the brightest, most highly qualified, the best. It has been pointed out in other sources the more selective colleges provide a more direct pathway to leadership positions for its grads. In those states which overturned affirmative action, California, Michigan come to mind, the number of African American students declined significantly in those schools which ended Aff. Act. programs by legal fiat.. Many of the best & brightest African-American students no longer attended these schools. As a result it is anticipated there will be fewer Black Americans in leadership positions if the effects of this ruling play out as they have in the past. It has been claimed small, selective LAC schools due to their limited resources will be hit hardest in their efforts to engage & admit minority students. Will HC be able to continue its progress in building a diverse more educationally advantageous student body? What steps should HC take?
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 1, 2023 12:07:38 GMT -5
Direct outreach to students you want to have come, dance with the ones who do.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 1, 2023 18:49:10 GMT -5
I'm watching Analyst Ron Brownstein discuss this now. He raises a red flag because for the first time in 2022 the majority of kids graduating from HS are minority while 60% of students in the most elite colleges are white.
Why aren't I clutching my pearls? Because this sounds understandable and to be expected in Democracy and Capatalism. On average the white student's families have been here longer, are more established with better HS educational options but elite schools are not roped off just for them.
I want the best for America, but I don't see a crisis in higher education in student access. Opportunity abounds. The crisis is in the sustainability of non-elite private schools. On line schools and State schools are cheaper so the privates have to offer quality programs the public wants and needs and thinks is worth more to justify their existence.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 2, 2023 6:48:26 GMT -5
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Post by mm67 on Jul 2, 2023 8:41:23 GMT -5
sader, Interesting read. The author's point on the inherent racial factor in legacy admissions struck a nerve. Does HC continue the practice of legacy admissions? Hope not. Now that the Courts have in effect become the nation's college admission office we can look forward to more legal challenges. How much latitude will be granted to the schools to decide admissions? Our nation continues to evolve. Happy 4th to all.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 2, 2023 8:59:03 GMT -5
Here’s my question for the group, putting aside discussion of Clarence specifically, what Fr. Brooks did in the late 60’s,:
1. Is that considered “Affirmative Action” or just an acceptable recruiting trip? Similar to what Admissions has done for eons at high schools, especially Catholic high schools?
Lawyers here, especially the constitutional type, welcome to comment.😊
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Jul 2, 2023 10:16:31 GMT -5
Not a problem if admission is not guaranteed.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 2, 2023 10:34:38 GMT -5
Here’s my question for the group, putting aside discussion of Clarence specifically, what Fr. Brooks did in the late 60’s,: 1. Is that considered “Affirmative Action” or just an acceptable recruiting trip? Similar to what Admissions has done for eons at high schools, especially Catholic high schools? Lawyers here, especially the constitutional type, welcome to comment.😊 In my opinion it is just a recruiting trip aimed to generate applications from a target group of potential students. It's not affirmative action, in my opinion, if you hold those applicants to the same standards as all other groups who apply. Hopefully Crossporters will be amused by this bit from the always amusing Babylon Bee, paraphrasing, "Asian students celebrate the SCOTUS decision by taking a five minute break from studying"
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 2, 2023 10:45:24 GMT -5
I do believe Clarence and the rest of the “Fraternity” were held to the same standards. Again, while included in that group, the book makes pretty clear that Fr. Brooks did not visit Clarence down in Georgia unlike the physical visits he made to the other guys.
And, unlike the other guys (from memory (always suspect), Clarence was unique in that he was a transfer rather than a high school student.
So, is consensus that if Admissions recruits in predominantly minority high schools that this would past muster with SCOTUS? Assuming standards are met.
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