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Post by purplehaze on Sept 14, 2023 19:17:59 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on Sept 14, 2023 20:22:26 GMT -5
Is there an assumption that the team members are employees of the school?
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Post by efg72 on Sept 14, 2023 20:39:48 GMT -5
I believe that is the purpose of establishing the union
Unions had a positive impact early on, since that period I believe the have not helped the members and destroyed the economy, but I am far from an economist and willing to listen
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Post by hchoops on Sept 14, 2023 22:43:14 GMT -5
I believe that is the purpose of establishing the union Unions had a positive impact early on, since that period I believe the have not helped the members and destroyed the economy, but I am far from an economist and willing to listen Not an economist either, but the term “unions” takes in a great many varied types, according to occupation. Many unions have significantly helped their members as well as the greater community at the same time for many decades. |
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 15, 2023 1:39:39 GMT -5
The Postal Service union got the job done in the 2020 election when management kept shutting down sorting machines to slow the process. It was the height of Covid before vaccines and the letter carriers got all the mail ballots delivered on time.
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Post by Tom on Sept 15, 2023 7:40:06 GMT -5
If the team is going to be employees and not just students (customers) on scholarship, I trust they are looking to pay taxes on their compensation including that 70K-ish scholarship
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 15, 2023 7:48:20 GMT -5
If the team is going to be employees and not just students (customers) on scholarship, I trust they are looking to pay taxes on their compensation including that 70K-ish scholarship No athletic scholarships at Dartmouth 😏 |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 15, 2023 7:58:16 GMT -5
From a very quick read, the supposed need for a union appears to be centered on their spending more hours on hoops than the 40 hours allowed by the NCAA, and that they miss classes when traveling to away games. How a union would remedy that is uncertain, at least to me. (I suspect the more than 40 hours is either strength and conditioning, or voluntary 'practice' on their part.)
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Post by Tom on Sept 15, 2023 8:33:27 GMT -5
If the team is going to be employees and not just students (customers) on scholarship, I trust they are looking to pay taxes on their compensation including that 70K-ish scholarship No athletic scholarships at Dartmouth 😏 Oh ya. Forgot that one |
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 15, 2023 8:56:26 GMT -5
If they are employees then, how are they compensated? In the case of Ivy League schools are they not free to leave the team at any time? In which case aren't they just forming a union for an extracurricular activity??
Regardless of feelings about unions, seems kind of silly to me.
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Post by alum on Sept 15, 2023 9:06:13 GMT -5
If they are employees then, how are they compensated? In the case of Ivy League schools are they not free to leave the team at any time? In which case aren't they just forming a union for an extracurricular activity?? Regardless of feelings about unions, seems kind of silly to me. I would also think that for students on traditional athletic scholarships, a claim that they are employees might make the scholarship taxable income. They would likely not want to be considered employees. |
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Post by Tom on Sept 15, 2023 9:24:29 GMT -5
From a very quick read, the supposed need for a union appears to be centered on their spending more hours on hoops than the 40 hours allowed by the NCAA, and that they miss classes when traveling to away games. How a union would remedy that is uncertain, at least to me. (I suspect the more than 40 hours is either strength and conditioning, or voluntary 'practice' on their part.) I assume that the pre-law kids doing mock court are in the same boat. Since (as I've been reminded) there aren't scholarships in play, quit your extra curricular like anyone else having it get in the way of school work. If there is no scholarship to take away for quitting the team, there should, in theory, be no penalty ------------------------ addendum: I started typing before 8485 replied, but then got involved in work stuff for a half an hour before finishing my post |
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Post by hc6774 on Sept 17, 2023 7:29:10 GMT -5
not a labor law guy
but are trade unions/auto unions a model for this i.e, a union with a contract to provide members/workers for the institution's enterprise ... could the Dartmouth coach join?
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 17, 2023 12:05:38 GMT -5
The players picked a poor "employer" to unionize and potentially strike against. BB is a tiny footnote in Dartmouth's identity and the school would save money if the players picketed instead of played. A strike against Gonzaga would be much more damaging to the identity and revenue of the "employer."
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Post by hcpride on Feb 6, 2024 5:31:42 GMT -5
“For the first time, NCAA athletes have been allowed to unionize. A National Labor Relations Board regional manager ruled on Monday the Dartmouth men's basketball team could vote to form a union. It would mark the first time a labor union would consist of NCAA athletes.” “Dartmouth is in the Ivy League, a group of private schools who all have similar profiles. They do not offer scholarships and by and large their sports don't produce revenue. That didn't matter to the NLRB official who focused on the work the athletes put in. "[Players] perform work in exchange for compensation," NLRB regional manager Laura Sacks ruled on Monday.” “At some point in the near future, the 15 players on the Dartmouth roster will vote to unionize. Only a simple majority of eight is needed for the players to formally ask to join Local 560 of Service Employees Union. That union already represents some employees at Dartmouth.” www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/how-a-ruling-that-dartmouth-basketball-players-are-school-employees-can-join-union-may-change-college-sports/amp/ |
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Post by alum on Feb 6, 2024 8:15:46 GMT -5
I saw something that said the compensation was the swag they get for being on the team. That seems like a stretch to me.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 6, 2024 9:10:23 GMT -5
/\ /\ Doesn't seem like much compensation in comparison to full athletic scholarships to the extent that distinction matters. Of course Dartmouth will appeal but it is interesting that the players are now considered employees by the NLRB with the right to unionize and collectively bargain relative to wages, hours, etc.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 6, 2024 9:33:44 GMT -5
/\ /\ Doesn't seem like much compensation in comparison to full athletic scholarships to the extent that distinction matters. Of course Dartmouth will appeal but it is interesting that the players are now considered employees by the NLRB with the right to unionize and collectively bargain relative to wages, hours, etc. The big question is if this ends up being the law of the land is what tuition/r&b grants are considered compensation? If need-based aid is not considered compensation, that might push more schools towards that method. |
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Post by gks on Feb 6, 2024 10:33:50 GMT -5
Ha...a team from the almighty Ivy League doing their best to bring down college sports.
They should have told the Dartmouth players no one cares and get back to playing hoops.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Feb 6, 2024 13:28:01 GMT -5
Dartmouth is appealing, but if the students win they will, I assume, have to be paid at least minimum wage. They can also bargain for other working conditions. I am in general a fan of unions. I worked in non-union shops when I was in school and saw how badly the employees were treated. In law school I loaded trucks at night at UPS and was a member of Teamsters Local 42 (and was part of a strike), and saw how important unions can be. I have to admit, though, that I'm still processing this Dartmouth thing. IL athletes don't get athletic scholarships but they get money, it's just called something else. Maybe the IL should just start giving athletic scholarships.
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Post by Tom on Feb 6, 2024 14:28:04 GMT -5
Dartmouth is appealing, but if the students win they will, I assume, have to be paid at least minimum wage. They can also bargain for other working conditions. I am in general a fan of unions. I worked in non-union shops when I was in school and saw how badly the employees were treated. In law school I loaded trucks at night at UPS and was a member of Teamsters Local 42 (and was part of a strike), and saw how important unions can be. I have to admit, though, that I'm still processing this Dartmouth thing. IL athletes don't get athletic scholarships but they get money, it's just called something else. Maybe the IL should just start giving athletic scholarships. If you have to pay them minimum wage, I would assume that is all athletes. Not just basketball players, but all athletes. And as I stated earlier, I don't see a difference between the the basketball players and the kids in mock court should also be paid minimum wage |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 6, 2024 14:46:55 GMT -5
Dartmouth is appealing, but if the students win they will, I assume, have to be paid at least minimum wage. They can also bargain for other working conditions. I am in general a fan of unions. I worked in non-union shops when I was in school and saw how badly the employees were treated. In law school I loaded trucks at night at UPS and was a member of Teamsters Local 42 (and was part of a strike), and saw how important unions can be. I have to admit, though, that I'm still processing this Dartmouth thing. IL athletes don't get athletic scholarships but they get money, it's just called something else. Maybe the IL should just start giving athletic scholarships. If you have to pay them minimum wage, I would assume that is all athletes. Not just basketball players, but all athletes. And as I stated earlier, I don't see a difference between the the basketball players and the kids in mock court should also be paid minimum wage The basketball players likely argue that they generate revenue forDartmouth via ticket sales--even if they are minimal |
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Post by Tom on Feb 6, 2024 15:01:09 GMT -5
If you have to pay them minimum wage, I would assume that is all athletes. Not just basketball players, but all athletes. And as I stated earlier, I don't see a difference between the the basketball players and the kids in mock court should also be paid minimum wage The basketball players likely argue that they generate revenue forDartmouth via ticket sales--even if they are minimal The same can be said of the football team, and some other athletes. The devil's advocate could argue that the basketball team is a financial loser as ticket sales don't come close to covering costs |
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Post by hcpride on Feb 6, 2024 15:59:24 GMT -5
The basketball players likely argue that they generate revenue forDartmouth via ticket sales--even if they are minimal The same can be said of the football team, and some other athletes. The devil's advocate could argue that the basketball team is a financial loser as ticket sales don't come close to covering costs "Because Dartmouth has the right to control the work performed by the Dartmouth men’s basketball team, and the players perform that work in exchange for compensation, I find that the petitioned-for basketball players are employees within the meaning of the [National Labor Relations] Act." - Laura Sacks, NLRB regional director www.si.com/college/tennessee/mens-basketball/dartmouth-basketball-players-considered-school-employeesNothing to do with generating or not generating revenue (after all, one can be a employee of a very profitable or very unprofitable organization). |
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 6, 2024 17:09:25 GMT -5
...at least as we have known them. After all there have been "professionals" playing at the major schools for many years now, long before such payments/privileges were legal under NCAA regulations. LSU exists only because Huey Long wanted a football team and was told he could not have one without a college linked with it.  I am optimist enough to believe that PL schools, HC in particular, will find a way to compete (and succeed?) in this new era of college sports. |
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