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Post by unhfan on Dec 24, 2016 16:06:52 GMT -5
I'd love to see HC host a 4 team tourney weekend..HC, Harvard, UMass and BC...at the DCU center. There was a tourney with these 4 schools twice in recent years at the Garden in November, but BC (being the usual dissenter that they tend to be) was the monkey wrench that essentially got it killed. You could blame BC but how about no one showed up for the tourney at the Garden could be the real reason the tourney died. As I'm not a HC grad what is with the perceived jealously of BC on the board? Is it that they are where the Cross wishes it was or is it a big brother little brother thing? I've never understood the digs at BC.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 24, 2016 16:13:52 GMT -5
There was a tourney with these 4 schools twice in recent years at the Garden in November, but BC (being the usual dissenter that they tend to be) was the monkey wrench that essentially got it killed. You could blame BC but how about no one showed up for the tourney at the Garden could be the real reason the tourney died. As I'm not a HC grad what is with the perceived jealously of BC on the board? Is it that they are where the Cross wishes it was or is it a big brother little brother thing? I've never understood the digs at BC. All good Crusaders hate bc, our one-time key rival. There's no jealously at all on my part
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Post by ts1970 on Dec 24, 2016 16:56:02 GMT -5
See also Lafayette - Lehigh..........
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 24, 2016 17:25:45 GMT -5
UNH, for decades, Holy Cross and BC for arch rivals (I know you know that) and far from being a "big brother-little brother" relationship, if anything, HC historically was the more established school both in terms of longevity and academic excellence. The football rivalry was very even, with HC holding the edge until the Crusaders voluntarily "downsized" and BC remained at the old level. In basketball, it wasn't really close with HC the superior program, again, until we downsized.
There are many different ways people react to the defunct rivalry but even when it was going strong, I was taught by my father that we rooted against BC when we played them, otherwise, we wanted them to do well. Many other were brought up that they hoped BC was terrible in everything.
I have met some very great folks who have graduated from BC.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 24, 2016 18:48:44 GMT -5
There was a tourney with these 4 schools twice in recent years at the Garden in November, but BC (being the usual dissenter that they tend to be) was the monkey wrench that essentially got it killed. You could blame BC but how about no one showed up for the tourney at the Garden could be the real reason the tourney died. As I'm not a HC grad what is with the perceived jealously of BC on the board? Is it that they are where the Cross wishes it was or is it a big brother little brother thing? I've never understood the digs at BC. That is a legitimate question. HC/BC used to be one of the biggest sports rivalries nationally. And, up to BC's decision to expand their athletic horizons, in the 1970s and after, HC had more wins in most sports. For most of us at HC, any win against BC was the top of the mountain...nothing better. It could literally make a season or save a coach's career. It was a big brother / little brother thing, but back then HC was big brother. After Father Brooks tipped the playing fields, the positions reversed.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 24, 2016 18:51:30 GMT -5
UNH, for decades, Holy Cross and BC for arch rivals (I know you know that) and far from being a "big brother-little brother" relationship, if anything, HC historically was the more established school both in terms of longevity and academic excellence. The football rivalry was very even, with HC holding the edge until the Crusaders voluntarily "downsized" and BC remained at the old level. In basketball, it wasn't really close with HC the superior program, again, until we downsized. There are many different ways people react to the defunct rivalry but even when it was going strong, I was taught by my father that we rooted against BC when we played them, otherwise, we wanted them to do well. Many other were brought up that they hoped BC was terrible in everything. I have met some very great folks who have graduated from BC. Many of my former students did go to BC (more than to HC). One of my closest friends is a former student that would join me when I would travel to see HC/BC games at the Hart (the "new" Hart). I have forgiven all of them for their lapse in judgement. At least they picked a Jesuit institution of higher learning.
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Post by unhfan on Dec 24, 2016 19:11:48 GMT -5
You could blame BC but how about no one showed up for the tourney at the Garden could be the real reason the tourney died. As I'm not a HC grad what is with the perceived jealously of BC on the board? Is it that they are where the Cross wishes it was or is it a big brother little brother thing? I've never understood the digs at BC. That is a legitimate question. HC/BC used to be one of the biggest sports rivalries nationally. And, up to BC's decision to expand their athletic horizons, in the 1970s and after, HC had more wins in most sports. For most of us at HC, any win against BC was the top of the mountain...nothing better. It could literally make a season or save a coach's career. It was a big brother / little brother thing, but back then HC was big brother. After Father Brooks tipped the playing fields, the positions reversed. Thanks! I had no idea about the role reversal as I began following HC in the late 90's.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 25, 2016 10:23:20 GMT -5
HC definitely the better basketball program when I started school in 1969. Still better (not by as much) 10 years later. 10 years after that, no. Effect of the Big East pure and simple.
Football, not sure what was the watershed year; all I know is from the the time of Lentz to Kimener in 1966 until the series ended in 1986; HC was something along the lines of 2-17; and one of those HC wins was against a winless BC team.
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Post by ncaam on Dec 27, 2016 8:53:51 GMT -5
Patriot League note well. We should have games scheduled for tonight and Friday. HC, BU, Loyola and AU should be playing one game at home and one on the road.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 27, 2016 8:59:36 GMT -5
Patriot League note well. We should have games scheduled for tonight and Friday. HC, BU, Loyola and AU should be playing one game at home and one on the road. The plus--no missed classes for visitors the negative-fewer fans, no students two fewer dates with no students ?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 27, 2016 9:17:16 GMT -5
Patriot League note well. We should have games scheduled for tonight and Friday. HC, BU, Loyola and AU should be playing one game at home and one on the road. The plus--no missed classes the negative-fewer fans, no students two fewer dates with no students ? What's the difference if 5 of the 6 PL home games with students on campus are on a Wednesday night, Monday night, or Sunday at Noon or 1. If only we could have a couple games on Tuesday nights, and we'd have all of the worst times to try to attract a student crowd covered!
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Post by Ray on Dec 27, 2016 9:44:42 GMT -5
Patriot League note well. We should have games scheduled for tonight and Friday. HC, BU, Loyola and AU should be playing one game at home and one on the road. Or, maybe the league knows what it's doing and you don't, 70. If you want to play tonight, you've set up a one-day prep/travel day on the 26th, which essentially means all players need to be back at their campus on the morning of the 26th... meaning you're cutting further into the couple of days at home they get for Christmas. Out of 351 D-1 teams, 21 of them have games tonight. Are 330 coaches/ADs asleep at the switch?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 27, 2016 9:59:32 GMT -5
Patriot League note well. We should have games scheduled for tonight and Friday. HC, BU, Loyola and AU should be playing one game at home and one on the road. Or, maybe the league knows what it's doing and you don't, 70. If you want to play tonight, you've set up a one-day prep/travel day on the 26th, which essentially means all players need to be back at their campus on the morning of the 26th... meaning you're cutting further into the couple of days at home they get for Christmas. Out of 351 D-1 teams, 21 of them have games tonight. Are 330 coaches/ADs asleep at the switch? In general, I would agree. However, the PL appears to be totally incompetent with negotiating TV contracts and/or creating schedules. The first week students are back on campus (Jan 23), we play at home against American on Monday night, then at Loyola on Wednesday, and at Navy on Saturday. Two weeks later (Feb 6), we play at Bucknell on Monday night, and then at Lafayette on Wednesday night. So over the first 2.5 weeks of the semester, we have 7 nights in hotels, and will miss 6 of the first 12 days of classes.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 27, 2016 10:20:18 GMT -5
As to TV, given the lack of profile of the league, the PL is in no position whatsoever to dictate dates/times to CBSSN. If they want any games on TV, the league has to take what they are given. That's life at the bottom of the D1 barrel.
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Post by Ray on Dec 27, 2016 10:43:22 GMT -5
Or, maybe the league knows what it's doing and you don't, 70. If you want to play tonight, you've set up a one-day prep/travel day on the 26th, which essentially means all players need to be back at their campus on the morning of the 26th... meaning you're cutting further into the couple of days at home they get for Christmas. Out of 351 D-1 teams, 21 of them have games tonight. Are 330 coaches/ADs asleep at the switch? In general, I would agree. However, the PL appears to be totally incompetent with negotiating TV contracts and/or creating schedules. The first week students are back on campus (Jan 23), we play at home against American on Monday night, then at Loyola on Wednesday, and at Navy on Saturday. Two weeks later (Feb 6), we play at Bucknell on Monday night, and then at Lafayette on Wednesday night. So over the first 2.5 weeks of the semester, we have 7 nights in hotels, and will miss 6 of the first 12 days of classes. As ACTP notes, "incompetence" and "negotiating without any leverage" are not the same thing. All leagues are essentially at the mercy of their TV partners. He who has the money makes the rules.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 27, 2016 10:46:23 GMT -5
As to TV, given the lack of profile of the league, the PL is in no position whatsoever to dictate dates/times to CBSSN. If they want any games on TV, the league has to take what they are given. That's life at the bottom of the D1 barrel. The league gets virtually no exposure from Monday night games on CBSSN, a channel that nobody even thinks of checking out. If the options are (a) allow CBSSN to completely screw around with the schedule or (b) play games that are at a more favorable time to increase attendance and create better environments in the arena, there is a strong argument that can be made for B. Especially with all games being broadcast over the Internet, you actually might have a greater reach broadcasting games that way than through CBSSN, which does not broadcast the games online. If the MAAC can get games on ESPNU on Friday nights, the PL can do a hell of a lot better than some screwy Monday night package on CBSSN.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 27, 2016 10:49:46 GMT -5
As to TV, given the lack of profile of the league, the PL is in no position whatsoever to dictate dates/times to CBSSN. If they want any games on TV, the league has to take what they are given. That's life at the bottom of the D1 barrel. The league gets virtually no exposure from Monday night games on CBSSN, a channel that nobody even thinks of checking out. If the options are (a) allow CBSSN to completely screw around with the schedule or (b) play games that are at a more favorable time to increase attendance and create better environments in the arena, there is a strong argument that can be made for B. Especially with all games being broadcast over the Internet, you actually might have a greater reach broadcasting games that way than through CBSSN, which does not broadcast the games online. If the MAAC can get games on ESPNU on Friday nights, the PL can do a hell of a lot better than some screwy Monday night package on CBSSN. I like your option B, but I am not sure the PL can do a lot better with tv coverage than CBSSN right now, at least until we can put out a better product with a bigger following.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 27, 2016 10:53:49 GMT -5
In general, I would agree. However, the PL appears to be totally incompetent with negotiating TV contracts and/or creating schedules. The first week students are back on campus (Jan 23), we play at home against American on Monday night, then at Loyola on Wednesday, and at Navy on Saturday. Two weeks later (Feb 6), we play at Bucknell on Monday night, and then at Lafayette on Wednesday night. So over the first 2.5 weeks of the semester, we have 7 nights in hotels, and will miss 6 of the first 12 days of classes. As ACTP notes, "incompetence" and "negotiating without any leverage" are not the same thing. All leagues are essentially at the mercy of their TV partners. He who has the money makes the rules. If the package with CBSSN stinks (which it does), why not try to work something out with ESPN, even if it means only having games broadcast on ESPN3? Why are we also moving kickoffs up to Noon during the football season to accommodate the American Sports Network, which is even more meaningless than CBSSN? With the quality of Internet broadcasts that can be streamed on phones, tablets, or Apple TV and similar devices, there is very little need to be bogged down by a television contract that is going to screw around with the schedule to the point where it is (a) negatively affecting attendance and/or (b) not actually reaching a significant audience.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 27, 2016 10:56:54 GMT -5
The HC game on ASN was picked up by SNY(Mets network) in the NY metro area, and maybe elsewhere.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 27, 2016 10:58:59 GMT -5
As to TV, given the lack of profile of the league, the PL is in no position whatsoever to dictate dates/times to CBSSN. If they want any games on TV, the league has to take what they are given. That's life at the bottom of the D1 barrel. The league gets virtually no exposure from Monday night games on CBSSN, a channel that nobody even thinks of checking out. If the options are (a) allow CBSSN to completely screw around with the schedule or (b) play games that are at a more favorable time to increase attendance and create better environments in the arena, there is a strong argument that can be made for B. Especially with all games being broadcast over the Internet, you actually might have a greater reach broadcasting games that way than through CBSSN, which does not broadcast the games online. If the MAAC can get games on ESPNU on Friday nights, the PL can do a hell of a lot better than some screwy Monday night package on CBSSN.I don't disagree with bagging the ferkakta CBSSN & ASN or whatever broadcasts in favor of more attractive scheduling.
Wrong on the MAAC/PL comparison. The MAAC is able to get better TV slots because in an NYC-centric league and draws a lot more viewers within a tight geographic area that the widespread PL does and ever would, plus NYC is important to networks and advertisers, while places such as Worcester, Hamilton and Lewisburg are not.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 27, 2016 11:03:20 GMT -5
The league gets virtually no exposure from Monday night games on CBSSN, a channel that nobody even thinks of checking out. If the options are (a) allow CBSSN to completely screw around with the schedule or (b) play games that are at a more favorable time to increase attendance and create better environments in the arena, there is a strong argument that can be made for B. Especially with all games being broadcast over the Internet, you actually might have a greater reach broadcasting games that way than through CBSSN, which does not broadcast the games online. If the MAAC can get games on ESPNU on Friday nights, the PL can do a hell of a lot better than some screwy Monday night package on CBSSN.Wrong on the MAAC/PL comparison. The MAAC is able to get better TV slots because in an NYC-centric league and draws a lot more viewers within a tight geographic area that the widespread PL does and ever would.
We also shouldn't be discounting that there are lines for all MAAC games (and many other games in which ESPN3 picks up), which may be a reason ESPN3 is willing to stream them. One other point: the PL allows CBSSN to have "flex" games, but they do mandate that all their schools have some exposure in TV games, which is the only reason Colgate, for instance, has a TV game against American. If CBS had their way, they would televise just the top two or three teams in the league (Lehigh, Bucknell), and probably Army and Navy because they are Army and Navy.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 27, 2016 11:04:15 GMT -5
Caro, Ray nailed it. The PL is not in a strong negotiating position. As for the internet streaming, the PL already does that with the exception of the games that are on TV. Do you really think that the streaming brings in more viewers than TV? The answer is to be more successful on the court. Offer your services to the PL to negotiate the next contract if you think you can do better. If you succeed, you can talk to Mexico on behalf of Trump to have them pay for that wall. Both cases have about the same chance of success.
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Post by bison137 on Dec 27, 2016 11:04:27 GMT -5
Patriot League note well. We should have games scheduled for tonight and Friday. HC, BU, Loyola and AU should be playing one game at home and one on the road. Or, maybe the league knows what it's doing and you don't, 70. If you want to play tonight, you've set up a one-day prep/travel day on the 26th, which essentially means all players need to be back at their campus on the morning of the 26th... meaning you're cutting further into the couple of days at home they get for Christmas. Out of 351 D-1 teams, 21 of them have games tonight. Are 330 coaches/ADs asleep at the switch? You're right - except I think it would be worse. With a game on the 27th, coaches would likely want the players back for a practice on Christmas.
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Post by Tom on Dec 27, 2016 11:08:09 GMT -5
Patriot League note well. We should have games scheduled for tonight and Friday. HC, BU, Loyola and AU should be playing one game at home and one on the road. I can't speak for the rest of the league, but HC players used the 26th as a travel day. A game today would either have a late night practice today or have the players returning late on the evening of the 25th. Late night practice a little harder since you have to squeeze the girls in there too (assuming they're playing the same day as the guys per usual I have no issue with the set-up this year that had the kids leave mid afternoon on the 23rd, full day at home with family on the 24th and 25th, return on the 26th, and get back to it on the 27 (even if I missed the Marist game because of that annoying little thing called work)
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 27, 2016 11:10:27 GMT -5
Tom, you have your priorities all screwed up.
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