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Post by rgs318 on Dec 24, 2016 9:05:00 GMT -5
A brief post here and the full list later on this Christmas Eve.
Holy Cross jumped 10 places with its win over Marist, to #169. That puts HC in the top half of the 351 rated teams in Division 1. Marist fell 2 places to #288.
Massey now has BU a 1 point favorite at home this Friday...a virtual toss-up.
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Post by DiMarz on Dec 24, 2016 9:36:28 GMT -5
Where were we last season at this point?
Movin' on up!
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 24, 2016 10:26:56 GMT -5
MASSEY RANK:
..36 South Carolina (9-2)
..48 Monmouth (10-2)
..63 Rhode Island (8-4)
..90 Syracuse (7-5)
..92 UMass (9-3)
121 Bucknell (8-5)
128 Lehigh (6-5)
132 Harvard (5-4)
137 New Hampshire (8-4)
161 Albany (7-6)
169 HOLY CROSS (6-7)
200 Loyola MD (6-5)
204 Army (6-6)
222 Boston Univ. (5-7)
245 Navy (5-7)
254 Quinnipiac (4-7)
274 Sacred Heart (5-8)
281 South Carolina St (3-9)
288 Marist (4-9)
302 American (3-8)
303 Lafayette (4-7)
306 Maine (4-9)
317 Colgate (2-11)
out of 351 ranked teams.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 24, 2016 10:38:14 GMT -5
Where were we last season at this point? Movin' on up! In 2015-16, HC ended of 5-6 preseason ooc. Sorry, I am not sure how to use the CROSSPORTS "Wayback Machine."  |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 24, 2016 11:18:09 GMT -5
Where were we last season at this point? Movin' on up! I don't know where we were with Massey but Ken Pomeroy's site records the team's rank before every game. We were #249 in Pomeroy after OOC play last season. He has us at #189 now. Remember, his calculations are based on offensive & defensive efficiency, not on W-L |
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 24, 2016 13:10:38 GMT -5
Thanks, KY. Nice to see the improvement documented.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 24, 2016 13:23:08 GMT -5
At the end of the season, Massey rated HC as:
2014 = 152 (20-14)
2015 = 264 (14-16)
2016 = 249 (15-20)
Currently = 169 (6-7)
A good PL season for HC could mean a better end of the year rank than in 2014.
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Post by DiMarz on Dec 24, 2016 14:01:41 GMT -5
It's great to see us moving up, a nice reward for all the hard work CBC and the entire program has put forth..I believe ADNP deserves a big ATTTABOY for his part in the revival..There is now a huge difference in the team, game presentation, publicity and of course the Hart Center since ADNP took over and put his mark on the athletics program at HC...
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 24, 2016 14:02:20 GMT -5
Great post, DiMarz. Agree across the board.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 26, 2016 10:43:57 GMT -5
Great post, DiMarz. Agree across the board. Last year's OOC: 5-6 Wins vs 171, 300, 307, 323, 336 This year's OOC: 6-7 Wins vs 139, 167, 279, 287, 307, 318 The only real difference between the two years was beating Albany after losing to them in OT last year. Could be a bit disingenuous to make it sound like we're back in the Mid-Major Top 10 again after that OOC, while also banging out attendance records at the Hart. |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 26, 2016 11:01:59 GMT -5
Great post, DiMarz. Agree across the board. Last year's OOC: 5-6 Wins vs 171, 300, 307, 323, 336 This year's OOC: 6-7 Wins vs 139, 167, 279, 287, 307, 318 The only real difference between the two years was beating Albany after losing to them in OT last year. Could be a bit disingenuous to make it sound like we're back in the Mid-Major Top 10 again after that OOC, while also banging out attendance records at the Hart. Who said anything about "banging out the Hart"? Have you even seen the updates in person? |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 26, 2016 11:05:39 GMT -5
Great post, DiMarz. Agree across the board. Could be a bit disingenuous to make it sound like we're back in the Mid-Major Top 10 again after that OOC, while also banging out attendance records at the Hart. Pretty disingenuous suggesting that's what I said. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 26, 2016 11:25:25 GMT -5
Great post, DiMarz. Agree across the board. Last year's OOC: 5-6 Wins vs 171, 300, 307, 323, 336 This year's OOC: 6-7 Wins vs 139, 167, 279, 287, 307, 318 The only real difference between the two years was beating Albany after losing to them in OT last year. Could be a bit disingenuous to make it sound like we're back in the Mid-Major Top 10 again after that OOC, while also banging out attendance records at the Hart. Caro-- you may want to think about boning up on your math and logic skills if you see such little difference between last year's OOC and this year's OOC |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 26, 2016 11:29:24 GMT -5
Could be a bit disingenuous to make it sound like we're back in the Mid-Major Top 10 again after that OOC, while also banging out attendance records at the Hart. Pretty disingenuous suggesting that's what I said. Consider the source SoV. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 26, 2016 11:32:52 GMT -5
Last year's OOC: 5-6 Wins vs 171, 300, 307, 323, 336 This year's OOC: 6-7 Wins vs 139, 167, 279, 287, 307, 318 The only real difference between the two years was beating Albany after losing to them in OT last year. Could be a bit disingenuous to make it sound like we're back in the Mid-Major Top 10 again after that OOC, while also banging out attendance records at the Hart. Who said anything about "banging out the Hart"? Have you even seen the updates in person? Yes. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 26, 2016 11:35:46 GMT -5
Last year's OOC: 5-6 Wins vs 171, 300, 307, 323, 336 This year's OOC: 6-7 Wins vs 139, 167, 279, 287, 307, 318 The only real difference between the two years was beating Albany after losing to them in OT last year. Could be a bit disingenuous to make it sound like we're back in the Mid-Major Top 10 again after that OOC, while also banging out attendance records at the Hart. Caro-- you may want to think about boning up on your math and logic skills if you see such little difference between last year's OOC and this year's OOC Last year we beat Harvard + some other bad teams, lost to Albany in OT. This year we beat Harvard + some other bad teams, beat Albany. So what if the bad teams were slightly "less bad" this year. |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 26, 2016 11:35:49 GMT -5
Last year's OOC: 5-6 Wins vs 171, 300, 307, 323, 336 This year's OOC: 6-7 Wins vs 139, 167, 279, 287, 307, 318 The only real difference between the two years was beating Albany after losing to them in OT last year. Could be a bit disingenuous to make it sound like we're back in the Mid-Major Top 10 again after that OOC, while also banging out attendance records at the Hart. Caro-- you may want to think about boning up on your math and logic skills if you see such little difference between last year's OOC and this year's OOC We are currently ranked 189 by Pomeroy. After last year's OOC, we had a ranking of 249. If you don't think our defense is significantly better, you haven't been paying attention. Our eFG% is also better this season than last (51.7% vs. 47.9%). |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 26, 2016 11:37:30 GMT -5
Caro-- you may want to think about boning up on your math and logic skills if you see such little difference between last year's OOC and this year's OOC Last year we beat Harvard + some other bad teams, lost to Albany in OT. This year we beat Harvard + some other bad teams, beat Albany. So what if the bad teams were slightly "less bad" this year. It behooves one to evaluate a team's performance on more than just wins and losses. For a basketball expert like yourself, I assume you would have known this. For instance, our non-conference SOS is better this year than last year (122 vs. 325), so why don't you take that into consideration. |
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Post by crossbball13 on Dec 26, 2016 11:45:54 GMT -5
Great post, DiMarz. Agree across the board. Last year's OOC: 5-6 Wins vs 171, 300, 307, 323, 336 This year's OOC: 6-7 Wins vs 139, 167, 279, 287, 307, 318 The only real difference between the two years was beating Albany after losing to them in OT last year. Could be a bit disingenuous to make it sound like we're back in the Mid-Major Top 10 again after that OOC, while also banging out attendance records at the Hart. That's the only difference you see between this year and last year's OOC? It's amazing how stupid you think we are. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 26, 2016 11:55:53 GMT -5
Last year we beat Harvard + some other bad teams, lost to Albany in OT. This year we beat Harvard + some other bad teams, beat Albany. So what if the bad teams were slightly "less bad" this year. It behooves one to evaluate a team's performance on more than just wins and losses. For a basketball expert like yourself, I assume you would have known this. For instance, our non-conference SOS is better this year than last year (122 vs. 325), so why don't you take that into consideration. KenPom SOS, correct? I still have yet to hear a full explanation on the factors that influence those rankings. I have factored more into my assessment than just wins and losses. Yes the OOC performance may be slightly better than last year, but we still have gaping holes in the rebounding department and 2FG defensive department that do not look like they are going to be filled any time soon, and this will limit how far we can go. Also, you were pretty vocal in your assessment of last year's senior class and how it would essentially be addition by subtraction. I agreed with that assessment, and that's another factor why slightly better play this year isn't all that surprising. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 26, 2016 12:02:29 GMT -5
You've heard me say this any number of times but "this tells us everything we need to know". Some will look at the OOC record, expecting to see no improvement in HC's performance, and, no surprise, that is just what they find. Others think it better to have an open mind and look at things objectively.
I agree 100% with SOV's counsel to look beyond the W-L record, but even if we looked at only that W-L record we'd see some differences between the seasons. Caro suggested a look at the opponents we beat last season versus this season. 171, 300, 307, 323, 336 versus 139, 167, 279, 287, 307, 318. Would it be logical to conclude that 171, 307, and 323 are comparable to 167, 307, 318 ? If so we'd then compare last year's 300 and 336 versus this year's 139, 279, and 287. I'll suggest that this year looks better. However, if you go into this looking for no improvement you can create a narrative that this year's wins came against "slightly less bad" teams.
If you look at the losses you have LY= 4, 82, 121, 235, 265, 291 versus TY= 32, 44, 45, 73, 126, 156, 328. The losses don't match up neatly the way the wins do, but I will point out that we had 3 losses last year versus 200+ teams ("Bad teams"??) versus one this year versus # 328 (undoubtedly a horrendous loss).
6-7 versus a much tougher schedule this season. Yes, we lost 2 or 3 games we clearly should have won but if "you are what your record says you are" we are better this year in my opinion
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Post by hchoops on Dec 26, 2016 12:03:13 GMT -5
We have not replaced E.G., especially his role in the 1-3-1 that helped so much in our stretch run. No player this season has played the back as effectively as Eric did. We also miss his slashing drives and pull up twos. PB has driven well. No one has shown an ability to create a two off the dribble the way E.G. did.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 26, 2016 12:07:41 GMT -5
It's amusing that you use Pomeroy's ranking of teams when showing who we have beaten this year and last year, but wish to ignore his SOS ranking because it doesn't jive with your narrative.
I have already explained how his SOS is determined.
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