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Post by hc2020 on Oct 1, 2023 7:32:27 GMT -5
Harvard has better athletes and we were out-coached. Did they get a lot more talented between last year and this year? Clearly we had a bad day across the board. Sluka had trouble for sure, but he is still a very talented player and he’ll bounce back. Even Tom Brady had some off days during his storied career. The combination of Sluka and Coker is extremely potent. Unlike other teams, Harvard was smart enough to double team him later in the game and make us win with something else. Quite frankly, I’m surprised other teams didn’t figure that out earlier. With 2 losses, it’s probably unlikely st least at the moment that we will garner a first round bye. However, if we can win out the rest of the way, including an FBS win over Army, we should at least secure a first round home game at Fitton the Saturday after Thanksgiving. After that, it’s pretty much up in the air. A lot can happen to the current picture, both for us and the rest of the FCS top 25 (a lot of ranked teams laid an egg yesterday) so I guess we just need to focus on what we can control the rest of the way and take care of our business.
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Post by trimster on Oct 1, 2023 7:43:36 GMT -5
How? That has to be considered an epic fail. Unless there were that many people whose ability to travel was disrupted by the biblical rains on Friday into Saturday. Not sure how bad it was in New England but parts of NYC got 7+ inches on Friday and we had tons of road closures. State of emergency was implemented. Weather was a non-factor as it relates to attendance. It was cloudy but dry all day and not dreadfully misty and cold like the previous week. There were plenty of Holy Cross fans in attendance, including a very large contingent of students in the right field upper deck (where the beer garden is located - of course). I would attribute the lower turnout to a lack of significant presence by Harvard fans. I saw some for sure, but not a big turnout by them. I guess Polar Park is not a significant enough draw to get them there. My guess is if the game was played at Fitton Field last night, attendance would have been doubled.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 1, 2023 7:45:06 GMT -5
The focus should be on the Patriot League at this point. Winning it, that is. Far from a given, you can see what happens when you lose focus (terrible kick coverage on the opening kickoff, fumbled handoff, bad snap (which didn't end up doing any damage), pick six; roughing the punter...geez).
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Post by timholycross on Oct 1, 2023 7:47:50 GMT -5
Isn’t that the logical conclusion? Ok, I guess you and I were watching a different game. I'd say the game was a tossup except for... I do agree that if Harvard needed to gain more yards, they probably would have and the game should have been a shootout like Fordham was a year ago.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 1, 2023 7:55:30 GMT -5
How? That has to be considered an epic fail. Unless there were that many people whose ability to travel was disrupted by the biblical rains on Friday into Saturday. Not sure how bad it was in New England but parts of NYC got 7+ inches on Friday and we had tons of road closures. State of emergency was implemented. Weather was a non-factor as it relates to attendance. It was cloudy but dry all day and not dreadfully misty and cold like the previous week. There were plenty of Holy Cross fans in attendance, including a very large contingent of students in the right field upper deck (where the beer garden is located - of course). I would attribute the lower turnout to a lack of significant presence by Harvard fans. I saw some for sure, but not a big turnout by them. I guess Polar Park is not a significant enough draw to get them there. A few crossporters noted potential difficulties in selling out the place this year but better odds of doing so with an opponent folks living in Worcester have at least heard of (v Colgate, Lafayette). No expectation of a significant Harvard football fan turnout. Don’t think previous day’s rain played a part.
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Wayne
Sophomore
Posts: 28
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Post by Wayne on Oct 1, 2023 8:33:02 GMT -5
This venue sucks for football...moved to standing room to see the whole field...lot of nice concessions but few bathrooms....nets in front of the stands...weird atmosphere, many seem not to be here for the game itself...will be my first and last PP game This times 1000! We will never go to a game there again either. Funeral homes had more energy than the fans yesterday (and not just because HC came out flat). Just a sterile environment. I felt like I was at an NCAA Tournament Game in the Centrum between UTEP and New Mexico State. I paid $25 to park near the Marketplace (I could have sworn the sign said $15, but apparently I overstayed by 5 minutes or so). The teams on both sides of the field was stupid, even though there appeared to be enough room for Harvard to have their team on the opposite side of the field. Sightlines are actually better than Fenway, but it is still a football field shoehorned into a baseball "stadium," I don't mean to sound like a pearl clutching grandmother, but a kid is going to get hurt with the end zones hugging the wall. You can't even run a fade pattern to the end zone because a kid would run straight into the wall. And the PA guy was deafening and obnoxious. There should only be four reasons for a team to move a football game to a baseball field: 1) It goes to a venue with more spectators. Obviously not the case here with Fitton fitting 23,000. 2) To host a night game. This was achieved, sort of, though 5:00 start was dumb. Either do a full night game, and allow people to have dinner before (especially since you can't tailgate for a Polar game), or do a day game. 5:00 is terrible IMO. 3) To market yourself to the community. Clearly this was a bust since more people go to games at Fitton even against no name teams from 5-6 hours away. 4) The game is played at a hallowed venue (i.e. Fenway, Wrigley, Yankee Stadium, Dodger Stadium, etc.). Clearly not the case in this instance. Polar has the ambiance of an airport terminal. There are only five games a year over three months that the team gets to host a football game. People look forward to that experience, not some sham "classic" that make a bit of a mockery of the game. Play the damn games at Fitton and rent lights if you want a one-off night game.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 1, 2023 8:39:29 GMT -5
Harvard 0 turnovers Holy Cross 5 turnovers That's the game right there. Oddly enough, I think had we not roughed the punter and gotten the ball back at midfield with around 11 minutes left and down 35-21, we find a way to win the game. Isn't this the story of the game? I don't see where "Harvard kicked our butts" or that we were "dominated".
Total Yardage HC 468 Harvard= 360
Rushing-yards per carry HC= 4.1 Harvard= 4.3
Passing- Yards per attempt HC= 12.3 Harvard= 7.6
I know there are other elements of the game--special teams, penalties, field position, etc, but it sure looks to me that the turnovers (weren't we top 10 in FCS last year in turnover margin?) are what cost us the game.Lies, damned lies, and statistics. After Harvard got up 35-21 and then made it a three score game midway through the 4th (38-21), they went to the ground on their ensuing possessions to run the clock. Conversely, we had no choice but to pass. We also picked up a large play that was pretty lucky on the pass to Shorter. Two other instances that impact offensive stats. Harvard's long kick return to open the game, gave them a short field (can only pick up so many yards). Also, on the pick six at the end of the first half, HC picked up an extra offensive possession. I maintain that we largely got our butts kicked last night. Hopefully a lesson that we aren't good enough that we can just show up and walk away with a win, especially against a quality team like Harvard. Maybe we thought that by trouncing the Ivy League favorites (Yale) we'd be able to do the same against Harvard. This is the second time Murphy has come to Worcester and put a beating on HC when most thought we would roll (October 2, 2021 being the other time...this was the week after we steamrolled a top 25 Monmouth team).
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Wayne
Sophomore
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Post by Wayne on Oct 1, 2023 8:40:27 GMT -5
As an aside, the Final Game of the International League Championship Series was held on Thursday Night. Either the WooSox knew their team was not very good this year, or they were incredibly stupid when scheduling a football game for September 30. Would have been pretty embarrassing if the WooSox had to play their playoffs at Hanover Insurance Park because of their ignorant marketing department.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 1, 2023 8:47:07 GMT -5
Don't blame the loss on Polar Park. It wasn't the venue that caused Matt to throw three picks, including a pick-6, and lose a fumble. And the venue didn't push our defense around for 200+ yards on the ground. Nor did it coach the Harvard offense how to limit Dobbs. Harvard was the better team on the field and deserved to win. They made the plays when they needed to and we didn't. Don't think anyone has ever once insinuated that. Most are just saying this is an awful venue for a football game and we should really be thinking long and hard if this is an annual thing we want to be doing. Most are also acknowledging Murphy outcoached Chesney and Harvard bullied us around the diamond pretty well.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Oct 1, 2023 8:53:12 GMT -5
As an aside, the Final Game of the International League Championship Series was held on Thursday Night. Either the WooSox knew their team was not very good this year, or they were incredibly stupid when scheduling a football game for September 30. Would have been pretty embarrassing if the WooSox had to play their playoffs at Hanover Insurance Park because of their ignorant marketing department. The International League playoffs are in Las Vegas. Duh
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Post by HC92 on Oct 1, 2023 8:58:06 GMT -5
Some of the overreaction about how amazing Harvard is and how much bigger/better/faster/stronger/handsomer they are than us is a bit much. We played an absolutely awful game and shot ourselves in the foot over and over and over and over. It sucks that we’re likely not getting seeded but it is what it is. Maybe getting bumped down will lead to an easier path to the natty if we can avoid SDSU for example. Let’s focus on winning the PL.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Oct 1, 2023 9:00:06 GMT -5
Weather was a non-factor as it relates to attendance. It was cloudy but dry all day and not dreadfully misty and cold like the previous week. There were plenty of Holy Cross fans in attendance, including a very large contingent of students in the right field upper deck (where the beer garden is located - of course). I would attribute the lower turnout to a lack of significant presence by Harvard fans. I saw some for sure, but not a big turnout by them. I guess Polar Park is not a significant enough draw to get them there. My guess is if the game was played at Fitton Field last night, attendance would have been doubled. Attendance was 8,000. A real 8,000, not some phony Fitton Field attendance figure. There is absolutely no way that game would have drawn 16,000 to Fitton. Absolutely no way.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Oct 1, 2023 9:14:04 GMT -5
Some of the overreaction about how amazing Harvard is and how much bigger/better/faster/stronger/handsomer they are than us is a bit much. We played an absolutely awful game and shot ourselves in the foot over and over and over and over. It sucks that we’re likely not getting seeded but it is what it is. Maybe getting bumped down will lead to an easier path to the natty if we can avoid SDSU for example. Let’s focus on winning the PL. 100% here. Harvard is good, not great. Guys, we would have lost to Yale and Merrimack spotting them 6 possessions. SIX!
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 1, 2023 9:18:57 GMT -5
Some of the overreaction about how amazing Harvard is and how much bigger/better/faster/stronger/handsomer they are than us is a bit much. We played an absolutely awful game and shot ourselves in the foot over and over and over and over. It sucks that we’re likely not getting seeded but it is what it is. Maybe getting bumped down will lead to an easier path to the natty if we can avoid SDSU for example. Let’s focus on winning the PL. 100% here. Harvard is good, not great. Guys, we would have lost to Yale and Merrimack spotting them 6 possessions. SIX! How much credit does Harvard get for forcing these turnovers?
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Post by cruskater31 on Oct 1, 2023 9:19:19 GMT -5
I'm really curious about the special teams angle - have opponents just adjusted in prepping for HC, or is something missing? Yes, offense made plenty of mistakes, but I have to cut them some slack - how many times this year have they been presented the ball with a short field? Doesn't seem like too many. Just wondering why. Course the D figures into that too, but I feel like that is more explainable. I made the comment earlier about Harvard being a physical team for a couple of reasons: 1) while the O Line gave Sluka a lot of time in most passing situations, it didn't seem like they were opening a lot of holes for the backs, and 2) usually Fuller wears on teams as the games go on, and starts going through them like melted butter. Didn't see a lot of that last night. Agree about our run game. Perhaps we decided, since we gained more through the air last year to go more Pass heavy. It is also likely that since we were facing a two score deficit at various points we decided to air it out more than run even if that is a strength. I'd tell Matt to keep being himself and not let anyone, game scripts, or interceptions take away from playing his game.
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Post by Tom on Oct 1, 2023 9:23:32 GMT -5
We can talk about 5 turnovers, but roughing the kicker was effectively a 6th turnover. A team would have to be absolutely dominant to overcome a six turnover deficit. HC was not absolutely dominant last night
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Wayne
Sophomore
Posts: 28
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Post by Wayne on Oct 1, 2023 9:27:26 GMT -5
As an aside, the Final Game of the International League Championship Series was held on Thursday Night. Either the WooSox knew their team was not very good this year, or they were incredibly stupid when scheduling a football game for September 30. Would have been pretty embarrassing if the WooSox had to play their playoffs at Hanover Insurance Park because of their ignorant marketing department. The International League playoffs are in Las Vegas. Duh >>The Norfolk Tides (2-1) defeated the Durham Bulls (1-2), 7-0, on Thursday night at Harbor Park. The Tides win their sixth International League Championship<< If you are going to be needlessly rude, at least be accurate.
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Post by cruskater31 on Oct 1, 2023 9:27:40 GMT -5
My guess is if the game was played at Fitton Field last night, attendance would have been doubled. Attendance was 8,000. A real 8,000, not some phony Fitton Field attendance figure. There is absolutely no way that game would have drawn 16,000 to Fitton. Absolutely no way. night game at Fitton against UMass drew nearly 16k. We had almost 18 for Fordham. A 5th ranked team vs a 24 ranked team with proper marketing etc that we have seen this season by HC would have drawn 15k. No weather issues, plenty of free parking. Don't have to have teams on both sidelines and then be yelled at by the ref for using rhe opposite sideline for defensive substitutions. No injury risks with the left field wall. Yes not too many Harvard fans show up to any road venue that isn't the Yale Bowl but to say we wouldn't draw 15k is a bit much. The highlight of the night for me was having Coney Island hot dogs. We do enough for the Worcester community with our outreach and all of our community service. I was at the AHL all-star game a while back and they couldn't even come close to filling the DCU.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Oct 1, 2023 9:41:31 GMT -5
The International League playoffs are in Las Vegas. Duh >>The Norfolk Tides (2-1) defeated the Durham Bulls (1-2), 7-0, on Thursday night at Harbor Park. The Tides win their sixth International League Championship<< If you are going to be needlessly rude, at least be accurate. The winner of the first half of the season hosts a playoff series. It is known in June whether or not the field is needed for playoff baseball or football. If you think the Worcester Red Sox ownership is that stupid I don’t know what to tell you. The championship series is in LasVegas.
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Post by cruskater31 on Oct 1, 2023 9:44:00 GMT -5
Looking at our offensive stats, the 5 turnovers and the lack of running back production jump off the page. Wouldn’t have guessed we’d see that. I imagine a strong d line from Harvard combined with the traditional notion of being behind means you throw the ball is why we saw fewer rush yards. Matt actually had about 25 more yards on the ground this year vs last year. For golf fans out there, it did feel like Zach Johnson was coaching our team while Luke Donald was coaching for Harvard.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Oct 1, 2023 9:46:50 GMT -5
Attendance was 8,000. A real 8,000, not some phony Fitton Field attendance figure. There is absolutely no way that game would have drawn 16,000 to Fitton. Absolutely no way. night game at Fitton against UMass drew nearly 16k. We had almost 18 for Fordham. A 5th ranked team vs a 24 ranked team with proper marketing etc that we have seen this season by HC would have drawn 15k. No weather issues, plenty of free parking. Don't have to have teams on both sidelines and then be yelled at by the ref for using rhe opposite sideline for defensive substitutions. No injury risks with the left field wall. Yes not too many Harvard fans show up to any road venue that isn't the Yale Bowl but to say we wouldn't draw 15k is a bit much. The highlight of the night for me was having Coney Island hot dogs. We do enough for the Worcester community with our outreach and all of our community service. I was at the AHL all-star game a while back and they couldn't even come close to filling the DCU. Stop with the “we do enough for the Worcester community” nonsense. This isn’t about that. Stop overstating the Fitton Field experience. It’s not that great of a venue. Sorry, there is no way you would convince me 15k attendance would have showed up for a Harvard game at Fitton. 10k at the most. I’m talking real attendance numbers, not some phony 12,500 Colgate attendance number.
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Wayne
Sophomore
Posts: 28
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Post by Wayne on Oct 1, 2023 9:51:43 GMT -5
>>The Norfolk Tides (2-1) defeated the Durham Bulls (1-2), 7-0, on Thursday night at Harbor Park. The Tides win their sixth International League Championship<< If you are going to be needlessly rude, at least be accurate. The winner of the first half of the season hosts a playoff series. It is known in June whether or not the field is needed for playoff baseball or football. If you think the Worcester Red Sox ownership is that stupid I don’t know what to tell you. The championship series is in LasVegas. Fine....You got me. That format is a change to the International League playoffs from before. I remember going to PawSox playoff games at McCoy when they were only a wild card. You could have responded with that information prior instead of resorting to childish remarks. And to clarify, it is not a "series" between the IL and PCL Champs in Vegas, but a single game.
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Post by cruskater31 on Oct 1, 2023 9:51:57 GMT -5
night game at Fitton against UMass drew nearly 16k. We had almost 18 for Fordham. A 5th ranked team vs a 24 ranked team with proper marketing etc that we have seen this season by HC would have drawn 15k. No weather issues, plenty of free parking. Don't have to have teams on both sidelines and then be yelled at by the ref for using rhe opposite sideline for defensive substitutions. No injury risks with the left field wall. Yes not too many Harvard fans show up to any road venue that isn't the Yale Bowl but to say we wouldn't draw 15k is a bit much. The highlight of the night for me was having Coney Island hot dogs. We do enough for the Worcester community with our outreach and all of our community service. I was at the AHL all-star game a while back and they couldn't even come close to filling the DCU. Stop with the “we do enough for the Worcester community” nonsense. This isn’t about that. Stop overstating the Fitton Field experience. It’s not that great of a venue. Sorry, there is no way you would convince me 15k attendance would have showed up for a Harvard game at Fitton. 10k at the most. I’m talking real attendance numbers, not some phony 12,500 Colgate attendance number. believe me, having been at both the UNH and UMass night games AND the Fordham game the numbers were accurate. I agree with you, we do inflate numbers. No way the actual attendance vs Colgate was what was stated. But...all the teams do it. For what it is worth, I think our playoff attendance numbers were under actual fannies in the seats most likely to not split as much revenue with the NCAA. The coordinated chants, "noise" while on defense, were far better at the Fordham game than Polar. Fans are too spread out across different sections for that to happen. Unfortunately HC fans do not show up en masse to every game at Fitton. Friends who would only go once a year to homecoming all came back last year for Fordham. For major opponents, however, we show up and are loud. The 2021 Harvard attendance at Fitton shows 10k and iirc, that is pretty accurate. That was of course before we went on our prolific nationally ranked run last year. I would rather play at Fenway or Yankee Stadium.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 1, 2023 10:37:25 GMT -5
How? That has to be considered an epic fail. Unless there were that many people whose ability to travel was disrupted by the biblical rains on Friday into Saturday. Not sure how bad it was in New England but parts of NYC got 7+ inches on Friday and we had tons of road closures. State of emergency was implemented. Spags mentality. Polar Park and HC tried to cash in on ticket prices. It's still an FCS game in a triple A ballpark in a second city. Advertised Garage Parking/tailgating also seemed to be priced to cash in, not to facilitate a stadium sell out.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 1, 2023 10:47:04 GMT -5
5-0 turnover margin v Laffy and Fordham (and Merrimack and probably Colgate), we lose.
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