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Post by HC13 on Oct 12, 2023 11:07:32 GMT -5
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 12, 2023 11:20:54 GMT -5
Seems a bit strange when BU gets the pre-season offensive POY and defensive POY but is picked for second?
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Oct 12, 2023 12:23:04 GMT -5
Not totally accurate, Rob. Weimar, from BU, was selected as pre-season "Player of the Year" (not offensive) and defensive POY. Not so strange since it's the same player.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 12, 2023 12:43:23 GMT -5
Thanks for pointing that out. It makes some sense now becase of the HC depth.  |
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Post by HC13 on Oct 12, 2023 13:12:49 GMT -5
I, for one, was a bit surprised that they are #1. That said, Colgate at #3 was a shocker. Guess the addition of Klag from Bucknell is the difference maker  2023-24 Women's Basketball Preseason Poll:
Holy Cross – 160 (16 first-place votes) Boston University – 141 (2) Colgate – 121 Lehigh – 111 American – 90 (2) Bucknell – 79 Army West Point – 69 Lafayette – 60 Loyola Maryland – 40 Navy – 29 |
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Post by lou on Oct 12, 2023 15:02:45 GMT -5
No surprise HC is #1 having received 16 of 20 1st place votes
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Post by bison137 on Oct 12, 2023 16:08:30 GMT -5
I, for one, was a bit surprised that they are #1. That said, Colgate at #3 was a shocker. Colgate at #3 might appear to be a shocker simply because they have been mediocre or worse for so long. However when you really look at their team, I don't think it's surprising at all. First, they return eight of their top nine players, including an All-PL player plus a good 5th year guard, who is also a four year captain. They also added a freshman post player who could be a significant contributor if her knee is healthy. Secondly, Colgate was one of six good teams last year, finishing tied for 4th. Of those six teams, four of them suffered very significant losses (Boston U, Lehigh, Bucknell, and Army). That leaves only HC and Colgate as "good" 2022-23 teams that didn't lose much of their key players. As they have been doing with their men's team, the Colgate women's program is willing to bring back players for a 5th year even when there is no academic reason. Doing this definitely has made them better. As an example of a team that Colgate has a big roster advantage over this year, Bucknell's starting five could consist of four sophs and one junior, depending on whether PG Blake Matthews is healthy enough to play serious minutes. With a very good recruiting class lined up for 2024, they could be serious contenders next year - but definitely not this year. |
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Post by HC13 on Oct 12, 2023 16:48:32 GMT -5
Thanks Bison, I figured as much after going back & looking at some of the rosters, including Colgate, but thy have underperformed for so many seasons it will be interesting to see if they return to the norm or are contenders.
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Post by oldschoolhoops on Oct 12, 2023 17:57:28 GMT -5
Colgate should be #2. BU lost a ton.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 12, 2023 18:31:40 GMT -5
Seems a bit strange when BU gets the pre-season offensive POY and defensive POY but is picked for second? We'll sink 'em with a depth charge. |
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 12, 2023 18:46:31 GMT -5
I, for one, was a bit surprised that they are #1. That said, Colgate at #3 was a shocker. Colgate at #3 might appear to be a shocker simply because they have been mediocre or worse for so long. However when you really look at their team, I don't think it's surprising at all. First, they return eight of their top nine players, including an All-PL player plus a good 5th year guard, who is also a four year captain. They also added a freshman post player who could be a significant contributor if her knee is healthy. Secondly, Colgate was one of six good teams last year, finishing tied for 4th. Of those six teams, four of them suffered very significant losses (Boston U, Lehigh, Bucknell, and Army). That leaves only HC and Colgate as "good" 2022-23 teams that didn't lose much of their key players. As they have been doing with their men's team, the Colgate women's program is willing to bring back players for a 5th year even when there is no academic reason. Doing this definitely has made them better. As an example of a team that Colgate has a big roster advantage over this year, Bucknell's starting five could consist of four sophs and one junior, depending on whether PG Blake Matthews is healthy enough to play serious minutes. With a very good recruiting class lined up for 2024, they could be serious contenders next year - but definitely not this year. Interesting concept of Colgate being "willing" to bring back players for a fifth season with no academic reason. The player is willing to push back a starting salary as a Colgate Grad or eventually after grad school for a year which is quite a sacrifice to make for Alma Mater. I credit the coaches for establishing a positive environment. That's not the only consideration but a necessary one. HC had a great player under BG, Raquel Scott who got injured and was eligible for a medical red shirt but chose to start her post HC life on time and on budget, which is also sensible. It's a credit to the program culture when players come back for a fifth undergraduate year when they are eligible to graduate on time. |
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Post by oldschoolhoops on Oct 12, 2023 18:57:02 GMT -5
HC had a great player under BG, Raquel Scott who got injured and was eligible for a medical red shirt but chose to start her post HC life on time and on budget, which is also sensible. It's a credit to the program culture when players come back for a fifth undergraduate year when they are eligible to graduate on time.It certainly can be a credit to the culture. But it's not always an indicator that things are all roses and sunshine. And in this case........  |
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Post by bison137 on Oct 12, 2023 19:17:51 GMT -5
Colgate at #3 might appear to be a shocker simply because they have been mediocre or worse for so long. However when you really look at their team, I don't think it's surprising at all. First, they return eight of their top nine players, including an All-PL player plus a good 5th year guard, who is also a four year captain. They also added a freshman post player who could be a significant contributor if her knee is healthy. Secondly, Colgate was one of six good teams last year, finishing tied for 4th. Of those six teams, four of them suffered very significant losses (Boston U, Lehigh, Bucknell, and Army). That leaves only HC and Colgate as "good" 2022-23 teams that didn't lose much of their key players. As they have been doing with their men's team, the Colgate women's program is willing to bring back players for a 5th year even when there is no academic reason. Doing this definitely has made them better. As an example of a team that Colgate has a big roster advantage over this year, Bucknell's starting five could consist of four sophs and one junior, depending on whether PG Blake Matthews is healthy enough to play serious minutes. With a very good recruiting class lined up for 2024, they could be serious contenders next year - but definitely not this year. Interesting concept of Colgate being "willing" to bring back players for a fifth season with no academic reason. The player is willing to push back a starting salary as a Colgate Grad or eventually after grad school for a year which is quite a sacrifice to make for Alma Mater. I credit the coaches for establishing a positive environment. That's not the only consideration but a necessary one. HC had a great player under BG, Raquel Scott who got injured and was eligible for a medical red shirt but chose to start her post HC life on time and on budget, which is also sensible. It's a credit to the program culture when players come back for a fifth undergraduate year when they are eligible to graduate on time. But bringing back players for a 5th year in this fashion directly contradicts the Patriot League bylaws: The Patriot League is committed to its founding principle of providing intercollegiate athletics competitive opportunities for undergraduate
students. However, under special circumstances, the institution’s Policy Committee representative may grant an exception to enable a student to compete as a graduate
student in their first year after earning the first baccalaureate degree. In order for such an exception to be granted, the student must meet all of the following criteria:
a. Have NCAA eligibility remaining due to reasons of NCAA hardship and have
previously been granted a NCAA Hardship Waiver by the League office
(NCAA Bylaw 12.8.4);
b. Choose to pursue a graduate degree at the League institution from which he/she graduated; and,
c. Present sound academic rational or documentation related to enrollment in a post-baccalaureate degree program.
Note that the Colgate 5th year athletes meet none of the criteria. They are all just hanging around, taking a few courses that do not lead to a graduate degree or even a second BA. Given the PL's acceptance of these sort of student-athletes, it would be a good idea to totally re-write the bylaws and get rid of references to academic principles. |
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 12, 2023 19:53:45 GMT -5
...and then apply this to football?! |
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 13, 2023 0:02:21 GMT -5
Colgate at #3 might appear to be a shocker simply because they have been mediocre or worse for so long. However when you really look at their team, I don't think it's surprising at all. First, they return eight of their top nine players, including an All-PL player plus a good 5th year guard, who is also a four year captain. They also added a freshman post player who could be a significant contributor if her knee is healthy. Secondly, Colgate was one of six good teams last year, finishing tied for 4th. Of those six teams, four of them suffered very significant losses (Boston U, Lehigh, Bucknell, and Army). That leaves only HC and Colgate as "good" 2022-23 teams that didn't lose much of their key players. As they have been doing with their men's team, the Colgate women's program is willing to bring back players for a 5th year even when there is no academic reason. Doing this definitely has made them better. As an example of a team that Colgate has a big roster advantage over this year, Bucknell's starting five could consist of four sophs and one junior, depending on whether PG Blake Matthews is healthy enough to play serious minutes. With a very good recruiting class lined up for 2024, they could be serious contenders next year - but definitely not this year. Interesting concept of Colgate being "willing" to bring back players for a fifth season with no academic reason. The player is willing to push back a starting salary as a Colgate Grad or eventually after grad school for a year which is quite a sacrifice to make for Alma Mater. I credit the coaches for establishing a positive environment. That's not the only consideration but a necessary one. HC had a great player under BG, Raquel Scott who got injured and was eligible for a medical red shirt but chose to start her post HC life on time and on budget, which is also sensible. It's a credit to the program culture when players come back for a fifth undergraduate year when they are eligible to graduate on time. I think everyone here would take an extra year of playing their sport before starting their career... |
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Post by dharry13 on Oct 13, 2023 11:15:59 GMT -5
Interesting concept of Colgate being "willing" to bring back players for a fifth season with no academic reason. The player is willing to push back a starting salary as a Colgate Grad or eventually after grad school for a year which is quite a sacrifice to make for Alma Mater. I credit the coaches for establishing a positive environment. That's not the only consideration but a necessary one. HC had a great player under BG, Raquel Scott who got injured and was eligible for a medical red shirt but chose to start her post HC life on time and on budget, which is also sensible. It's a credit to the program culture when players come back for a fifth undergraduate year when they are eligible to graduate on time. I think everyone here would take an extra year of playing their sport before starting their career... Knowing you most likely are working for the next 40 years of your life vs. playing a game for another year. Gimme the playing a game for another year all day. Once that is gone it's gone. Working 40 years isn't going anywhere. I agree. |
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Post by HC13 on Oct 13, 2023 11:43:43 GMT -5
Depends on the circumstances of each kid. For example, Scott had a Wall Street job lined up, don't blame for moving on. Women's program hasn't had one do a medical redshirt in a while.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 13, 2023 11:51:30 GMT -5
Rocky was a solid player and her loss was a big one, but she also had other talents she wanted to use and develop and IMHO she made the right move. Having seen her play from when she was in high school, her nickname was well-earned.  |
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 13, 2023 14:38:26 GMT -5
Depends on the circumstances of each kid. For example, Scott had a Wall Street job lined up, don't blame for moving on. Women's program hasn't had one do a medical redshirt in a while. Mary Rose Campbell was the last I think. I felt sad that her fifth year wasn't a good one but I have a foggy memory of her being able to take courses at UMass Medical School which hopefully helped her in her future endeavors. |
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Post by HC13 on Oct 13, 2023 16:20:02 GMT -5
I think Mary Rose (one of my all time favorites) only played 4 seasons, but I do seem to recall her teammate, Patty Fitzgerald may have come back for a fifth year. In any case, it's been a while.
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Post by HC13 on Oct 13, 2023 16:28:45 GMT -5
From what I can figure out, maybe Jess Pearson '10 was the last.
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Post by hc6774 on Oct 14, 2023 10:04:07 GMT -5
Interesting concept of Colgate being "willing" to bring back players for a fifth season with no academic reason. The player is willing to push back a starting salary as a Colgate Grad or eventually after grad school for a year which is quite a sacrifice to make for Alma Mater. I credit the coaches for establishing a positive environment. That's not the only consideration but a necessary one. HC had a great player under BG, Raquel Scott who got injured and was eligible for a medical red shirt but chose to start her post HC life on time and on budget, which is also sensible. It's a credit to the program culture when players come back for a fifth undergraduate year when they are eligible to graduate on time. But bringing back players for a 5th year in this fashion directly contradicts the Patriot League bylaws: The Patriot League is committed to its founding principle of providing intercollegiate athletics competitive opportunities for undergraduate
students. However, under special circumstances, the institution’s Policy Committee representative may grant an exception to enable a student to compete as a graduate
student in their first year after earning the first baccalaureate degree. In order for such an exception to be granted, the student must meet all of the following criteria:
a. Have NCAA eligibility remaining due to reasons of NCAA hardship and have
previously been granted a NCAA Hardship Waiver by the League office
(NCAA Bylaw 12.8.4);
b. Choose to pursue a graduate degree at the League institution from which he/she graduated; and,
c. Present sound academic rational or documentation related to enrollment in a post-baccalaureate degree program.
Note that the Colgate 5th year athletes meet none of the criteria. They are all just hanging around, taking a few courses that do not lead to a graduate degree or even a second BA. Given the PL's acceptance of these sort of student-athletes, it would be a good idea to totally re-write the bylaws and get rid of references to academic principles. I believe the PL issued statement that suspend these requirements for Covid eligible players. But I don't think the requirement for full academic load (4 courses/semester?) was suspended. I think the PL will review this bylaw after the Covid cohort passes. |
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