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Post by steken on Dec 6, 2023 7:39:38 GMT -5
Agreed. My wife and I commented on the Holy Cross contingent at alumni and how it seemed like a home game. It’s a shame that same crowd can’t fill the seats at a home game. The environment at West Point was great as well. We had a group for 50 years and none of us were alumni. Sadly many of those folks have passed on. Back when Fitton Field used to be packed. I’m guessing that the majority of fans weren’t alumni but just fans of the sports program. Not sure what the size of the home game crowds would be if it was only Alumni or current students. The A.D. needs to get the city and region behind the football program in more creative ways. I brought up the band only because it adds to the whole game day experience and culture. If the band is solely based on the size of the student body, then how do you explain the band that Holy Cross had when Rick Carter and Mark Dufner were coaches here. Probably a pipe dream, but just wishing that the atmosphere could reflect the success of the football program.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 6, 2023 7:53:39 GMT -5
Agreed. My wife and I commented on the Holy Cross contingent at alumni and how it seemed like a home game. It’s a shame that same crowd can’t fill the seats at a home game. The environment at West Point was great as well. We had a group for 50 years and none of us were alumni. Sadly many of those folks have passed on. Back when Fitton Field used to be packed. I’m guessing that the majority of fans weren’t alumni but just fans of the sports program. Not sure what the size of the home game crowds would be if it was only Alumni or current students. The A.D. needs to get the city and region behind the football program in more creative ways. I brought up the band only because it adds to the whole game day experience and culture. If the band is solely based on the size of the student body, then how do you explain the band that Holy Cross had when Rick Carter and Mark Dufner were coaches here. Probably a pipe dream, but just wishing that the atmosphere could reflect the success of the football program. I agree the band is a weak spot. Paying $90 million or something for the Luth Center, making sure it is built correctly and maintaining it beautifully is in the Holy Cross wheelhouse. Building consistent student spirit is a more complicated challenge for our fine administrators.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 6, 2023 8:35:17 GMT -5
A level set: there are about 3,100 students and a number are doing junior years abroad. More than half are women and many of those have little interest in football.
There are about 34,000 living alums and they are scattered around the country and world. A lot of them are old and can’t travel.
That means to fill or semi-fill a 20,000+ seat stadium, you need a bunch of people like you and NAD from surrounding Worcester. As I understand it, the demographics of Worcester, like Providence, has changed dramatically over the years with many having little interest in American football and more into futbol.
My mother and her twin sister were born and raised Worcesterites and married two Holy Cross grads after meeting in the “Carol Club” in the late 30’s and early 40’s when Holy Cross men were considered “a catch” by the locals.
Sadly, those days may be gone forever.
As for the band, it has always been small but agree it is now borderline pathetic. At the last game, I struggled to recognize the Alma mater. I know one band member and her parents and she bemoans how they struggle to get more band members. I was told of a case of a great musician who refuses to join because he thinks it’s beneath his talents. I feel badly for the current band members who are trying their best. With the PPAC and the emphasis on performing arts, you would think there would be more in the band.
If I had a say, I would insist any student getting a scholarship or financial aid while a music major (do we have those? I think we do), would be required to be in the Good Time band. 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 6, 2023 8:39:22 GMT -5
I like that last idea. Over the years, the band has iinspired both fans and athletes with their interesting music choices. They give a lot for very little in return. OK, start paying them for appearances on behalf of HC...their form of NIL?
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Post by nhteamer on Dec 6, 2023 8:49:06 GMT -5
Agreed. My wife and I commented on the Holy Cross contingent at alumni and how it seemed like a home game. It’s a shame that same crowd can’t fill the seats at a home game. The environment at West Point was great as well. We had a group for 50 years and none of us were alumni. Sadly many of those folks have passed on. Back when Fitton Field used to be packed. I’m guessing that the majority of fans weren’t alumni but just fans of the sports program. Not sure what the size of the home game crowds would be if it was only Alumni or current students. The A.D. needs to get the city and region behind the football program in more creative ways. I brought up the band only because it adds to the whole game day experience and culture. If the band is solely based on the size of the student body, then how do you explain the band that Holy Cross had when Rick Carter and Mark Dufner were coaches here. Probably a pipe dream, but just wishing that the atmosphere could reflect the success of the football program. I agree the band is a weak spot. Paying $90 million or something for the Luth Center, making sure it is built correctly and maintaining it beautifully is in the Holy Cross wheelhouse. Building consistent student spirit is a more complicated challenge for our fine administrators. No, it's not compicated: at all! Didn't used to be a problem. Said administrators made it a problem.
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 6, 2023 8:50:07 GMT -5
I read on the Fordham board that their band members were given a modest $700 reduction in tuition to join the band. I totally agree that our band has now fallen to unacceptable levels and something has to be done to get it back to 25-30 members (my recollection) for the 24-25 seasons
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 6, 2023 9:16:06 GMT -5
No, it is more complicated and tell us how the administrators made it a problem. I could probably list a bunch of stuff that the prior 2-3 administrators screwed up (yeah, the logo/mascot for one) but how did they deep six the band?
IMHO, it has a lot to do with the current generation of students brought up on social media and technology that has lured them away from eye-balling and personally interacting with others. To the administrators' credit, they emphasize things like going out and helping the Worcester community. I think our coaches do a great job of getting their players to band (no pun intended) with their fellow teammates, Coach Chesney is a great example in football. Have any interaction with the players and they not only love him, they love their teammates. They are bound for life.
Look, when I and many were at Holy Cross, if you weren't on a varsity sport, and most weren't, the social life was minimal, no women other than the occasional mixer, and we lived for the football and basketball games. No social media to distract us. In fact, little TV available. Not a criticism of us or the current students, just how life was/is.
I see Vince Rougeau at football games all the time, less so at basketball games. I suspect you'll see provost Visconsi at some athletic events having been an alum.
I just don't think we can hang this on the administrators alone.
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Post by nhteamer on Dec 6, 2023 9:18:41 GMT -5
i'm not talking about the present administration
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 6, 2023 9:53:30 GMT -5
I realize that and maybe went a bit far in my response but tell us how the past administrations went astray beyond my one example.
“The Spire”? 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by mm67 on Dec 6, 2023 9:56:49 GMT -5
Band enhancement will require creativity, money and commitment. Some random thoughts... One could include band performance as part of a for-credit music course. # of credits per semester? Perform from a larger menu of music - school songs, jazzy numbers, some more traditional plus of course patriotic songs. Also, a Bob Chesney type of band director might help to attract & keep students engaged. Is the band an active participant in student life? Some examples, march through campus prior to games; on occasion greet the teams on return to campus. . Also, band tours off campus (similar to the Glee Club back in the day.)might add more luster. However, the band has been & always will always be small but it can be fun. One thing I've noticed. In my time at HC the band had understated traditional style unis. Then in the following years rather than the stiff traditional uni the band dress was more casual - white pants & sweaters. Then the band went back to the the rigid traditional band attire but more elaborate than before. Rather than the rigid traditional, go back to the more casual style of the times. More casual attire might/might not(?) make it more attractive to students. Merely my thoughts on a cold December morning , nothing more. Wanna' get out of the cold northeast and get back to the warmth of the tropical sun ASAP. Peace
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Post by nhteamer on Dec 6, 2023 10:41:40 GMT -5
I realize that and maybe went a bit far in my response but tell us how the past administrations went astray beyond my one example. “The Spire”? 🤷🏻♂️ In terms of squashing school spirit? Thats a joke, right?
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 6, 2023 10:59:15 GMT -5
No. Please educate me. I honestly don't see this but perhaps I have a blind spot?
But, yes, "The Spire" is somewhat of a joke. After Fr. B killed off the Crusader, it was the students who changed the name of the school newspaper, not the Administration.
In my post-Army game conversation with Fr, McFarland when he was wearing what he called "The Forbidden Fruit" sweatshirt with a Crusader logo, I made very clear to him that I blamed his successor for killing off the Crusader. In his best poker face, he almost had no reaction to what I said.
All that said, the lack of attendance at football & basketball games pre-dated the death of the Crusader. And it was the Board of Trustees that allowed Boroughs to kill off the beloved (for me, anyway) cognomen.
Anyway, please elaborate. Are you going back to Fr. Brooks' Big East decision? If so, that's probably just a half sentence response as we all get that. But, I hope you would agree that in the days of RW, there was a resurgence of basketball attendance and spirit.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 6, 2023 11:21:28 GMT -5
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Post by cruskater31 on Dec 6, 2023 11:22:04 GMT -5
I like that last idea. Over the years, the band has iinspired both fans and athletes with their interesting music choices. They give a lot for very little in return. OK, start paying them for appearances on behalf of HC...their form of NIL? My wife, having gone to many football games at Fitton as a student and alum, was shocked at the size of the bands at the Ohio State-Michigan game a couple of weeks ago. I explained the size of the universities but also the band scholarships and how playing for one of these bands (as the ND band, Pride of the Southland Band, Pride of the Sunshine, etc) is a big deal and an honor for a lot of these high school musicians. I can say that the schools I coach against do not have marching bands but seem to have concert bands, etc. Many of the public and Catholic schools in New England have very small bands, if any. The bands playing in the Macy's parade, for example, all seem to come from the South and the Midwest, where bands and football are intertwined in the culture. That geographic divide could also be an issue we are up against. I would be in favor, since we have an organ scholarship, to have some marching band scholarships.
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Post by crusader1970 on Dec 6, 2023 12:00:07 GMT -5
I remember when Syracuse used to come to Fitton in the 60's and they brought their marching band.
They were announced as "100 Men and a Girl".
The "girl" of course was a majorette all decked out in an orange sequin outfit and leading the marching band while tossing a baton.
Now I see their band numbers 200.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 6, 2023 12:02:24 GMT -5
8485 has a good pulse on band issues --
Michelle Bata, Ph.D (she/her/hers) Associate Dean for Student Engagement
Dr. Michelle Bata is responsible for ensuring a vibrant campus life, building collaborative programs with academic affairs, and divisional assessment. Prior to working in student affairs, Dr. Bata taught sociology and served in several administrative posts in academic affairs at both Fordham University and Clark University. All of her professional positions have allowed her to think deeply about the student experience and student learning, and as a result she is broadly interested in the factors that shape student outcomes. Michelle received her Ph.D. and M.A. in sociology from the University of Arizona, and her A.B. in sociology from Boston College.
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Post by hcnj on Dec 6, 2023 13:54:25 GMT -5
Well, the thread "Next Head Coach" has devolved into a HC band discussion. I shouldn't pick on this one but I am because of the uncertainty of the current situation and personally am not that involved with the forensics of how we got from a not particularly renowned band to it seems, no band. I respect all those involved in the band and it's followers.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 6, 2023 14:45:07 GMT -5
I do have one classmate who came really close to going to UMASS over Holy Cross specifically because of their band. I believe she had some sort of scholarship offer. Luckily, she made the right choice.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 6, 2023 14:52:42 GMT -5
In the '60's the UMass marching band was large & terrific. The HC fans at Fitton enjoyed the band immensely. At the end of the game we shouted "encore." And, the band stayed after the game and serenaded the HC fans with John Philip Sousa's famous "Stars and Stripes Forever." It was wonderful. A great memory to this day. Their Div. II team w/ QB Greg Landry & TE Milt Morin was pretty good, too.
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Post by steken on Dec 6, 2023 15:13:12 GMT -5
Success breeds success. Getting people in the stands, a legit band, better fan and game day experience, leads to better experience for the coaches and players, leads to desired place to play/coach. Continued success of the program to maybe a national championship someday? We have already seen much of that recently and in the past. Hopefully it continues with Chesney and if he moves on then maybe Chris or the next coach. Just would hate to see the program lose its momentum by not doing everything that can be done. We’ll see…….
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cross99
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 85
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Post by cross99 on Dec 6, 2023 15:28:43 GMT -5
Call Chris Smith, the Giants are a dumpster fire anyway.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 6, 2023 15:44:27 GMT -5
/photo/1
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Post by efg72 on Dec 6, 2023 15:45:11 GMT -5
Looks like he is still in Vegas
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