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Post by midwestsader05 on Mar 22, 2024 21:13:31 GMT -5
No I’m NOT saying Ivies give aid to Households that don’t quality. What I am saying is the endowments have gotten so damn big that HYP can give a full ride to any HH with an AGI under ~150k. Not true, and you know better than to make a statement of "fact" that can easily be checked. Harvard has an online financial aid calculator. Plug in a family of four with an AGI of $150K and no other assets.Their expected parental contribution is not $0 as you claim, but $18K. To get to a $0 parental contribution, AGI has to drop to about $90K. If the family has assets, which is almost certain for a family with an AGI of $150K, the expected contribution will go up. And you should know better than taking a public website financial calculator as gospel. I’ll expose myself as an example. My GPA coming out of HS was 3.0. My SAT was 1180. If you went on the public website of HC that year and looked at median admission stats, there’s no way in hell I should have been admitted. Additionally, my family’s AGI was above the threshold to qualify for financial aid, so how did I get an “alumni memorial scholarship” worth 22% of tuition, room and board each of my 4 years? Riddle me how I got offered and could have “committed to the admissions process” at Dartmouth, Davidson and G’Town with those boards? So here’s a very direct question - How did HC offer a kid that barely made the bottom cohort of the AI and didn’t qualify for financial aid a 22% scholarship? I mean all publicly accessible information at the time would suggest this impossible, correct? Very simply 69, would I had been admitted to HC with that transcript AND awarded a partial scholi if I was a general student and not a recruited football player? I’ll save you the spin cause Mike Pedone told my family and I the answer when my mother posed that exact question to him in our living room. Coming directly from Chesney, “if HYP wants a player bad enough and that player’s family makes under 150k, they can essentially get them a full ride.” It’s a cocktail of mostly financial and some other aid. We can quibble about whether nearly a full ride is 5k of 84k out of pocket a year. Also, I noticed you didn’t ask any further questions on “hard evidence” on Ivy League summer internships. You good? You think there’s at least a “half dozen” of those types of offices and companies I described in Boston, NYC and Phili.? Or were Chesney, Gilmore and everyone else bull shi*ing?
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 22, 2024 22:36:19 GMT -5
The IL went 15-9 in their 24 OOC games this past season. Among their non-threatening opponents were Marist, Central Connecticut, Georgetown, Bucknell, University of San Diego, Morgan State, Sacred Heart, St. Thomas, Howard. They played 13 PL games and 11 non-PL OOC opponents. With Harvard's upset win in HC's last game evah at Polar Park,😎 the IL eked out a one game advantage over the PL, 7-6.
Except for in-state rivalry games vs UNH and URI, the IL didn't play any of the tough CAA teams like Villanova, Delaware, William and Mary or Richmond. IL teams share subway systems with FBS teams like BC and Temple but they didn't aspire to play them or any FBS opponents. Their toughest opponents out of the 24 games might have been Holy Cross and Lafayette. So the non-scholarship but loaded with a labyrinth of financial aid sources IL, and the athletic scholarship PL are basically a push on the field.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Mar 22, 2024 23:12:52 GMT -5
Bottom line and to come back to topic - even without athletic scholarships and official NIL, the Ivies that want to compete have the financial resources to push the envelope as far as they wish.
We could quibble all day about the family variables Chesney and Gilmore like to use as case studies when talking about competing v the Ivies. Did the family make 140k and Ches rounded up to 150k, was it a family of 4 or 5, did the recruit have an older sibling in college, was he only referring to the “total cost to parents” and therefore not including the ~$3,500 in work study financial support, did the family have 20k in a savings account or 100k in a 401k and so on. I’m rolling with what I know and that’s HYP (and to a lesser extent Penn then Dartmouth) have had considerably bigger rosters than the PL that equate to more than 63 equivalents. They also dish out high dollar summer internships.
69 and others seem to believe everything is black and white and fits neatly into box. Others know Ivy coaches like most push as hard as they can to recruit and retain the talent they want and need to be successful. If you don’t think there is still a form of smoke filled rooms where back and forths b/t coaches and athletic administrators haggle with admissions and aid offices on Ivy campuses, I just don’t know what to tell you at this point.
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Post by newadvisor on Mar 22, 2024 23:36:12 GMT -5
No I’m NOT saying Ivies give aid to Households that don’t quality. What I am saying is the endowments have gotten so damn big that HYP can give a full ride to any HH with an AGI under ~150k. Not true, and you know better than to make a statement of "fact" that can easily be checked. Harvard has an online financial aid calculator. Plug in a family of four with an AGI of $150K and no other assets.Their expected parental contribution is not $0 as you claim, but $18K. To get to a $0 parental contribution, AGI has to drop to about $90K. If the family has assets, which is almost certain for a family with an AGI of $150K, the expected contribution will go up. Sounds like it should or could be true... That doesn't always calculate when you involve athletes to an IVY. Two ocassions that I personally know of dispute this financial aide calculator. First was a young gentleman scholar/football player who was to receive a full academic as long as he played football, not a full if he were to be just a simple student. The second was a young lady whom was a soccer prodigy who ended up at Notre Dame. For some reason, this ivy was going to open up a bank account with the full tuition deposited each year in it in her name. That's not a scholly, but it sure is in the real world. By the way that school started with the letter H... Just sayin the Ivys have their own rules and nobody is going to tell them different... The scary thing is, what if they decide to say hell with it we are awarding scholarships for sports. Their ability to finance during NIL would be catastrophic to all we know is college sports. Nobody, I mean nobody could compete with their endowments..
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 23, 2024 0:31:59 GMT -5
I don't argue with anything anyone has said but if you look at Ivy schedules, they aren't trying to leverage their wealth to rule the football world at this point. NIL is an unknown variable but they are equally capable of embracing it or rejecting it like they have athletic scholarships.
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Post by football44 on Mar 23, 2024 6:52:49 GMT -5
Midwest is right. The ivies have their own built in NIL. They also have their own rules that they play by every year. This is why they don’t compete in the FCS football playoffs. Why their basketball teams can beat teams like Auburn and Arizona. I say this because I have first hand knowledge. Many years ago during my playing days I was offered an “ Ivy League “ football scholarship. How? They don’t have scholarships. Okay but large endowment dollars and wealthy friends of the program have always been there to support the programs. Welcome to the world of Ivy League sports.
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Post by hc1996 on Mar 23, 2024 7:22:02 GMT -5
The Ivies operate the same way we did in the mid-90’s. I graduated in 96 and one of my friends, a basketball player, had what I think he referred to as an “alumni grant”. He was very open about the fact that it was a basketball scholarship but was called something else, you know, because it wasn’t a scholarship. 😂
The Ivies have always done this. They just have a million times more resources.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 23, 2024 7:42:04 GMT -5
Athletic scholarships are not the only model the NCAA wholly supports. Look at D-3. Anyone have knowledge of what financial aid arrangement a recruited athlete to Amherst or Williams has received? Similar to 1996 Holy Cross and current day Ivies?
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Post by midwestsader05 on Mar 23, 2024 7:56:20 GMT -5
The Ivies operate the same way we did in the mid-90’s. I graduated in 96 and one of my friends, a basketball player, had what I think he referred to as an “alumni grant”. He was very open about the fact that it was a basketball scholarship but was called something else, you know, because it wasn’t a scholarship. 😂 The Ivies have always done this. They just have a million times more resources. If you read above, looks awful close to what HC gave me. The one limitation I do know for a fact is that they can’t give those non financial aid grants nearly close to a full. So again, the one edge we do have is if Harvard and HC both love a player (top of the board type) that comes from a higher AGI HH, we can offer a full and they can’t.
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Post by gks on Mar 23, 2024 9:57:16 GMT -5
Midwest is right. The ivies have their own built in NIL. They also have their own rules that they play by every year. This is why they don’t compete in the FCS football playoffs. Why their basketball teams can beat teams like Auburn and Arizona. I say this because I have first hand knowledge. Many years ago during my playing days I was offered an “ Ivy League “ football scholarship. How? They don’t have scholarships. Okay but large endowment dollars and wealthy friends of the program have always been there to support the programs. Welcome to the world of Ivy League sports. Oh boy. One the Ivy League Fan Club wakes up they're going to love this.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 23, 2024 10:57:53 GMT -5
Midwest is right. The ivies have their own built in NIL. They also have their own rules that they play by every year. This is why they don’t compete in the FCS football playoffs. Why their basketball teams can beat teams like Auburn and Arizona. I say this because I have first hand knowledge. Many years ago during my playing days I was offered an “ Ivy League “ football scholarship. How? They don’t have scholarships. Okay but large endowment dollars and wealthy friends of the program have always been there to support the programs. Welcome to the world of Ivy League sports. Oh boy. One the Ivy League Fan Club wakes up they're going to love this. Ivy league chatter is good "craic" as they say in Ireland.🤣
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